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I was a skeptic . Now I'm a believer

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posted on May, 9 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by kman420


Whats more ignorant than clinging to the egotistical thaught that our entire universe is empty, and always has been for the Trillions of eons before you were here?


Blindly believing something to be true just because it can be true.




posted on May, 9 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by kman420
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Just because you "still" need proof that there "is" life out there not "maybe" out of those trillions of suns in our glaxy alone, containing possably hundreds of trillions of planets.

I thaught the ATS slogan was DENY IGNORANCE?

Whats more ignorant than clinging to the egotistical thaught that our entire universe is empty, and always has been for the Trillions of eons before you were here?

Most people need more proof, but not all of us. I continue to deny ignorance. Arguing that you still need more proof than all the evidence in front of us, is just plain ignorant.


Good points.

Its as if some on ATS have visited all these billions of planets and found no life, hence the 'don't be silly, there is no alien life'.

Some of the pictures and videos posted on ATS, can be explained and some are hoaxes. But just because some are it doesn't mean all are.

In my humble opinion, some on ATS are disinfo agents, some want to be popular, some are too ignorant and some are too scared to believe alien life is out there.



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by Dastardly666
...Its as if some on ATS have visited all these billions of planets and found no life, hence the 'don't be silly, there is no alien life'...

How many people on ATS have said there is no such thing as alien life? I would venture to say very, very few. I don't think anyone in this thread has made that assertion.

The idea that intelligent alien life most likely exists out there somewhere is a pretty widely held belief among people who understand the size of the universe -- such as almost all scientists, most ATSers, and most educated people in general. It would be rare to find a stubborn scientist or ATSer who thinks Earthlings are the lone inhabitant of the universe.

I believe there almost certainly is intelligent alien life elsewhere in the universe, maybe even elsewhere in our galaxy. However, please notice that I said "most likely" and "almost certainly". That's because I can't be 100% certain about ET life until we encounter that life in some way.

Furthermore, while I am pretty well convinced that other intelligent life exists, I am far less convinced of the idea that intelligent ET life is visiting the Earth.


edit on 5/9/2011 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by Dastardly666
...Its as if some on ATS have visited all these billions of planets and found no life, hence the 'don't be silly, there is no alien life'...

How many people on ATS have said there is no such thing as alien life? I would venture to say very, very few. The idea that intelligent alien life most likely exists out there somewhere is a pretty widely held belief among people who understand the size of the universe -- such as scientists, many ATSers, and most educated people in general. It is rare to find a stubborn scientist or ATSer who thinks humans are the lone inhabitant of the universe.

I believe there almost certainly is intelligent alien life elsewhere in the universe, maybe even elsewhere in our galaxy, but I can't be 100% certain until we encounter that life in some way.


I have seen some who have claimed there is no alien life. Just like there are some who have said there has not been alien contact and UFOs are not alien craft and usually described as hoax or something else. But they provide not one shred of evidence. These are the people I am talking about. Ask them to prove their claims and they wont because they cant. And there are quite a few on ATS!

Like you and others, I believe there is alien life out there. I also believe there may have been alien contact and I believe there are UFOs that could be alien craft. Can I prove this? No.

But the lies and cover ups by governments and countless witness testimonies since the dawn of time suggest alien beings have visited our planet.



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by Dastardly666
 

The very, very few ATSer who I noticed who absolutely refute the idea of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe are usually religious fanatics who take a strict interpretation of the Bible.



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
reply to post by Dastardly666
 

The very, very few ATSer who I noticed who absolutely refute the idea of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe are usually religious fanatics who take a strict interpretation of the Bible.


Okay. But what about the people who claim there has never been alien contact? What about the people who claim UFOs are not alien craft? How would you describe them? I have already described them but what is your opinion.

You rightly said you were not 100% certain and as you can see from my posts, neither am I. But I am still labelled a believer by some. I call it having an open mind which some on ATS lack.



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by Dastardly666

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
reply to post by Dastardly666
 

The very, very few ATSer who I noticed who absolutely refute the idea of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe are usually religious fanatics who take a strict interpretation of the Bible.


Okay. But what about the people who claim there has never been alien contact? What about the people who claim UFOs are not alien craft? How would you describe them? I have already described them but what is your opinion.


The way I see it, "Do intelligent ETs exist somewhere in the Universe" and "Are intelligent ETs visiting the Earth" as two totally separate questions.

In my case, my belief that intelligent ETs probably exist elsewhere is totally based on empirical data -- i.e., the sheer size of the universe. On the other hand, the idea that ETs are visiting the Earth is based only on anecdotal accounts, unconfirmed testimony & pictures, and ambiguous scientific data.

I'm not saying that there is NO such thing as alien visitation, I'm just saying that personally I don't feel convinced that there is alien visitation. It's one thing to say that ET probably exists in the vastness of space somewhere. It's quite another thing to say that those ETs are visiting us.


edit on 5/9/2011 by Soylent Green Is People because: formatting



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by kman420
i mean youve all seen thousands of ufo related things and most of you still need "proof".


A pile of crap will never equate to a brick of gold, no matter how tall it gets.


Originally posted by kman420
That was my point, if anyone cant see that then wow, get passed your ego.


One could easily ask if it is egotism to believe we are being visited, that someone out there would spend the time and resources to observe us. However, ultimately discussions of egotism are irrelevant. Ego has nothing to do with science. If we are alone, we are alone. If we are being visited, we are being visited. Truth is the truth and evidence is evidence, appearances of egotism be damned.


Originally posted by kman420
Just because you "still" need proof that there "is" life out there not "maybe" out of those trillions of suns in our glaxy alone, containing possably hundreds of trillions of planets.


You'd be making a very persuasive point, if anyone was actually arguing that point.


Originally posted by kman420
I thaught the ATS slogan was DENY IGNORANCE?


It certainly is. And as you are operating from ignorance, let me teach you how to better deny it. You are using a straw-man argument. What is a straw-man argument, you ask? A straw-man argument is when you misrepresent an opponent's position into something easier to attack, without ever actually addressing your opponent's true point. In this case, the skeptic position is "the evidence to support extraterrestrial life visiting our planet is lacking"; you are distorting that position to "there is no evidence of extraterrestrial life". The two positions are not one in the same.



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
The very, very few ATSer who I noticed who absolutely refute the idea of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe are usually religious fanatics who take a strict interpretation of the Bible.


Such people are often lumped together on ATS with "skeptics" when they are actually believers. When asked, such people will unequivocally state they believe in UFOs but believe they are demons.



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by Dastardly666
But the lies and cover ups by governments


The Robertson Panel notwithstanding, the focus of government "lies and cover-ups" seems to be on fostering belief to disguise mundane truths, rather than hiding the truth about extraterrestrials.


Originally posted by Dastardly666
and countless witness testimonies since the dawn of time suggest alien beings have visited our planet.


But isn't that a modern interpretation, one most often found among those with little-to-no background in history, archaeology or anthropology?



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by WingedBull

Originally posted by Dastardly666
But the lies and cover ups by governments


The Robertson Panel notwithstanding, the focus of government "lies and cover-ups" seems to be on fostering belief to disguise mundane truths, rather than hiding the truth about extraterrestrials.


Originally posted by Dastardly666
and countless witness testimonies since the dawn of time suggest alien beings have visited our planet.


But isn't that a modern interpretation, one most often found among those with little-to-no background in history, archaeology or anthropology?


Would that be the same mundane truths being covered up in the the OBL killing in Pakistan? Or the same mundane truths being covered up about WMDs in Iraq? Was the Watergate scandal about something mundane? And of course Roswell, Rendlesham and countless other UFO cover ups.

Before technology and sci-fi movies, there have been witness sightings, photographs and drawings of UFOs. How can you explain these?
edit on 9-5-2011 by Dastardly666 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by WingedBull

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
The very, very few ATSer who I noticed who absolutely refute the idea of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe are usually religious fanatics who take a strict interpretation of the Bible.


Such people are often lumped together on ATS with "skeptics" when they are actually believers. When asked, such people will unequivocally state they believe in UFOs but believe they are demons.


So why did you accuse the OP of never being a 'skeptic'? And what do you actually believe in? Do you believe aliens are visiting our planet? Do you believe some or most of the UFO sightings are actually alien craft?



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 04:48 PM
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No point in being part of a community if you just want to act
all selfish and aloof.
The whole reason for a platform like ATS is to share and Investigate our
findings and beliefs. No share no point.
You might as well sit on your porch , look up to the stars and muse
about it all.

Meh!
edit on 9-5-2011 by rigel4 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by rigel4
No point in being part of a community if you just want to act
all selfish and aloof.
The whole reason for a platform like ATS is to share and Investigate our
findings and beliefs. No share no point.
You might as well sit on your porch , look up to the stars and muse
about it all.

Meh!
edit on 9-5-2011 by rigel4 because: (no reason given)


You haven't directed your commented to anyone but I'm guessing its me. There is a meaning to selfish and aloof and you obviously do not know the meaning to them. Next time before you try to belittle someone, get to know the meaning of the words you are using so you don't look so ignorant in future.



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by Dastardly666


Would that be the same mundane truths being covered up in the the OBL killing in Pakistan? Or the same mundane truths being covered up about WMDs in Iraq? Was the Watergate scandal about something mundane? And of course Roswell, Rendlesham and countless other UFO cover ups.


Dastardly, do you understand that to debate your position with any measure of validity, you have to do so, with an argument that is proven, not with one that is as equally speculative as is the point being argued?

The only 2 items you have in there are the WMD in Iraq and Watergate. And those are mainly due to their having measurable outcomes and finite ability to be speculative about in the first place. If you send someone out in a field to pick a flower, they either come back with it or they do not. There is no room for speculation on whether or not they have the flower. The same with WMD in Iraq, we sent the troops to Iraq, either they came home with the WMD or they did not, there was no room for the Military to cover that up.

So now, you are making two claims that are as equally unsubstantiated, that there was a cover-up in roswell and that we are being visited by ET's on a regular basis. You did not prove ONE as being true, by presenting the other.


Originally posted by Dastardly666
Before technology and sci-fi movies, there have been witness sightings, photographs and drawings of UFOs. How can you explain these?
edit on 9-5-2011 by Dastardly666 because: (no reason given)


I'm pretty sure, about 5 minutes ago, I just saw Elvis..... did I?



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by alphabetaone

Originally posted by Dastardly666


Would that be the same mundane truths being covered up in the the OBL killing in Pakistan? Or the same mundane truths being covered up about WMDs in Iraq? Was the Watergate scandal about something mundane? And of course Roswell, Rendlesham and countless other UFO cover ups.


Dastardly, do you understand that to debate your position with any measure of validity, you have to do so, with an argument that is proven, not with one that is as equally speculative as is the point being argued?

The only 2 items you have in there are the WMD in Iraq and Watergate. And those are mainly due to their having measurable outcomes and finite ability to be speculative about in the first place. If you send someone out in a field to pick a flower, they either come back with it or they do not. There is no room for speculation on whether or not they have the flower. The same with WMD in Iraq, we sent the troops to Iraq, either they came home with the WMD or they did not, there was no room for the Military to cover that up.

So now, you are making two claims that are as equally unsubstantiated, that there was a cover-up in roswell and that we are being visited by ET's on a regular basis. You did not prove ONE as being true, by presenting the other.


Originally posted by Dastardly666
Before technology and sci-fi movies, there have been witness sightings, photographs and drawings of UFOs. How can you explain these?
edit on 9-5-2011 by Dastardly666 because: (no reason given)


I'm pretty sure, about 5 minutes ago, I just saw Elvis..... did I?


What you are basically saying is that there are no government lies and cover ups. You keep grazing with the rest of the sheep. I gave you some examples of many, many of which have been discussed here.

Like I said in a previous post to you, you have no interest in debating with me because you are not good at it. All you and your buddy are trying to do is belittle and bully me. 2 against 1 isnt that fair is it. As soon as I come on this thread, you two appear. Who is harassing who? And before you deny it, take a look back the last few pages and you will see what I mean. But you two keep giving each other stars and to anyone else who attacks me.

And feel free to answer my questions I asked your buddy.


edit on 9-5-2011 by Dastardly666 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by tpg65
 


tpg, thank you so much. found a couple of his interviews. just brilliant

People watch this, it's



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by Dastardly666


What you are basically saying is that there are no government lies and cover ups.


Nope, I'm saying you haven't proven a UFO cover-up by ANY Government, and neither has anyone else.


Originally posted by Dastardly666
I gave you some examples of many, many of which have been discussed here.


Who wants examples? What's paramount is PROOF of a cover-up, not an example of what a cover-up might be. That's useless.


Originally posted by Dastardly666
Like I said in a previous post to you, you have no interest in debating with me because you are not good at it.


Yes, I show you where you need to provide proof of a topic, and you keep using baseless assumptions, and I'm no good at it, clearly.


Originally posted by Dastardly666
All you and your buddy are trying to do is belittle and bully me. 2 against 1 isnt that fair is it.
here you go again, with your "I am being attacked and belittled" argument. Why don't you learn to stay on topic. Now, show PROOF of being visited by ET's, not arguable video and the same ole worn out pictures that are blurry.


Originally posted by Dastardly666

As soon as I come on this thread, you two appear.


I've been on it the whole time.


Originally posted by Dastardly666

Who is harassing who? And before you deny it, take a look back the last few pages and you will see what I mean. But you two keep giving each other stars and to anyone else who attacks me.


Buddy, I AM about to go off-topic, you seriously need to seek out some counseling if you are that paranoid and self-absorbed....why instead, dont YOU do this little exercise...

Look at your history of posting, it's ALWAYS about UFO, and you automatically get defensive when someone disagrees with your point of view. I've read every thread you've ever either started or replied to, and your method is exactly the same. Now, having a singular interest as opposed to varying is not a big problem by itself...but when your demeanor is one of complete obstinate when someone challenges your point of view, then truly, who is CLOSED-minded and who is OPEN-minded....you need to think about that seriously.


Originally posted by Dastardly666

And feel free to answer my questions I asked your buddy.



The bottom line is visitation, lest we forget the premise. You go off into a million different directions rambling about attacks, derailing, when you could be providing proof of the claims you keep making. So, prove it first, then maybe you have some talking points. But as of yet, you have provided nothing but regurgitated youtube videos that show nothing, and speculation about alleged cover-ups.
edit on 9-5-2011 by alphabetaone because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by alphabetaone

Originally posted by Dastardly666


What you are basically saying is that there are no government lies and cover ups.


Nope, I'm saying you haven't proven a UFO cover-up by ANY Government, and neither has anyone else.


Originally posted by Dastardly666
I gave you some examples of many, many of which have been discussed here.


Who wants examples? What's paramount is PROOF of a cover-up, not an example of what a cover-up might be. That's useless.


Originally posted by Dastardly666
Like I said in a previous post to you, you have no interest in debating with me because you are not good at it.


Yes, I show you where you need to provide proof of a topic, and you keep using baseless assumptions, and I'm no good at it, clearly.


Originally posted by Dastardly666
All you and your buddy are trying to do is belittle and bully me. 2 against 1 isnt that fair is it.
here you go again, with your "I am being attacked and belittled" argument. Why don't you learn to stay on topic. Now, show PROOF of being visited by ET's, not arguable video and the same ole worn out pictures that are blurry.


Originally posted by Dastardly666

As soon as I come on this thread, you two appear.


I've been on it the whole time.


Originally posted by Dastardly666

Who is harassing who? And before you deny it, take a look back the last few pages and you will see what I mean. But you two keep giving each other stars and to anyone else who attacks me.


Buddy, I AM about to go off-topic, you seriously need to seek out some counseling if you are that paranoid and self-absorbed....why instead, dont YOU do this little exercise...

Look at your history of posting, it's ALWAYS about UFO, and you automatically get defensive when someone disagrees with your point of view. I've read every thread you've ever either started or replied to, and your method is exactly the same. Now, having a singular interest as opposed to varying is not a big problem by itself...but when your demeanor is one of complete obstinate when someone challenges your point of view, then truly, who is CLOSED-minded and who is OPEN-minded....you need to think about that seriously.


Originally posted by Dastardly666

And feel free to answer my questions I asked your buddy.



The bottom line is visitation, lest we forget the premise. You go off into a million different directions rambling about attacks, derailing, when you could be providing proof of the claims you keep making. So, prove it first, then maybe you have some talking points. But as of yet, you have provided nothing but regurgitated youtube videos that show nothing, and speculation about alleged cover-ups.
edit on 9-5-2011 by alphabetaone because: (no reason given)


Sorry what was the point of your post? Apart from the personal attacks.

I see you did not answer my questions. Too difficult?

edit on 9-5-2011 by Dastardly666 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by alphabetaone

Originally posted by Dastardly666



Originally posted by Dastardly666

And feel free to answer my questions I asked your buddy.



The bottom line is visitation, lest we forget the premise. You go off into a million different directions rambling about attacks, derailing, when you could be providing proof of the claims you keep making. So, prove it first, then maybe you have some talking points. But as of yet, you have provided nothing but regurgitated youtube videos that show nothing, and speculation about alleged cover-ups.
edit on 9-5-2011 by alphabetaone because: (no reason given)


What claims have I made? You're not very clever are you.

I asked you to answer my simple questions but you go off on another dramatic rant.




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