I need help creating a solution to a problem we are about to face

Originally posted by DrunkNinja

Originally posted by AQuestion

Originally posted by DrunkNinja
reply to post by AQuestion

 

It is about the future, deciding for others. If a law is passed today that says nobody under 12 can be searched, we tried that and drug sellers began using people under 12. (((((DRUG DOGS)))) We had women fake pregnancy to hide bombs during the Vietnam war (watch Apocalypse Now) ((((((((BOMB SNIFFING DOGS))))))))), we do intentionally induce paralysis to save lives (doctors induce comas to save people, read about it).(((((((((((((MEDICAL CONSENT FORMS))))))))What changes in the future are the questions we cannot know today. If you do not know all the answers why do you believe others do? They don't, it is a process, not perfection and well all have our opinions, even people that are not on this earth yet, we cannot say what their freedom will require them to say. Your question presumes controlling the future rather than letting them decide for themselves.

((((((((CONTROLLING GOVERNMENT ABUSES))))))

Also by your reasoning that we should ensure that we do not control people in the future by not passing laws today, would mean that we should have no laws. I mean when they passed a law that says that murder is a punishable offense that was wrong because you never know murder might be useful in the future, just about as useful as cavity searches for 12 year old's, do you think about what your writing or do you just type ?

I seem to believe you said you were Canadian, yet, you wish to tell us how to regulate our government. You put words in my mouth and do not consider what I have said. I never said we should have no laws, I say we should have the right to change them. I do think, unfortunately, you do not listen except for agreement in response.

reply to post by EternalThought

or a man by a man TSA agent, what's the matter?

I do not want some dude touching my down stairs. NO WAY.

reply to post by DrunkNinja


Finding a clever marketing slogan isnt the problem. That could be done easily. The problem is promoting it when corporations control virtually ALL media outlets.

Thats why citizens united vs fec was such a big deal, (even though the masses mostly still dont know much about it) it gave corporations the right to pump as much money as they needed to to monopolize the propaganda machine. Its why they are acting now with almost flagrant disregard for our opinion. They know they OWN the election.

I seem to believe you said you were Canadian, yet, you wish to tell us how to regulate our government. You put words in my mouth and do not consider what I have said. I never said we should have no laws, I say we should have the right to change them. I do think, unfortunately, you do not listen except for agreement in response.

You say I do not listen ?

I say that laws should be enacted to protect children under 12 from physical searches and that they should only be subjected to drug / bomb sniffing dogs and metal detectors.

You say "what about the 12 year old's that sell drugs", ? UM,,,,,,,,,, drug sniffing dogs

I say that laws should be enacted to protect pregnant woman from cavity searches and that they should only be subjected to drug/bomb sniffing dogs and metal detectors.

You say "what about the pregnant woman that hid a bomb in her uterus".? UM........bomb sniffing dogs

You say "doctors induce paralysis all the time" I don't disagree that's what medical forms of consent are for. You seriously think a doctor in the states is going to induce paralysis without consent ? The hospitals legal teams would never consider it, unless your watching that doctor show called house, Never mind the fact that I obviously meant it to be in regards to use as civilian control, in the future I will make sure to make things crystal clear as to avoid you having to fill in the obvious blanks.

Yes I am Canadian and I am telling you what I want to do, hence the thread title "I need help creating a solution" ,You see your government tells my government what to do. We have the same masters, I have the same cell phone, I watch the same t.v. shows, my governments wars are in reality your governments wars. My resources are your resources and we are happy to share them, you think your flag makes you different from me ? It doesn't, your problems are my problems.

And no I did not put words in your mouth, you quite clearly stated that "we should not pass laws today because we don't know how it will effect the future" So in what scenario should we pass laws ? Because it kind of seems that by your reasoning that we shouldn't as long as there is going to be a future

Originally posted by DrunkNinja

I seem to believe you said you were Canadian, yet, you wish to tell us how to regulate our government. You put words in my mouth and do not consider what I have said. I never said we should have no laws, I say we should have the right to change them. I do think, unfortunately, you do not listen except for agreement in response.

You say I do not listen ?

I say that laws should be enacted to protect children under 12 from physical searches and that they should only be subjected to drug / bomb sniffing dogs and metal detectors.

You say "what about the 12 year old's that sell drugs", ? UM,,,,,,,,,, drug sniffing dogs

I say that laws should be enacted to protect pregnant woman from cavity searches and that they should only be subjected to drug/bomb sniffing dogs and metal detectors.

You say "what about the pregnant woman that hid a bomb in her uterus".? UM........bomb sniffing dogs

You say "doctors induce paralysis all the time" I don't disagree that's what medical forms of consent are for. You seriously think a doctor in the states is going to induce paralysis without consent ? The hospitals legal teams would never consider it, unless your watching that doctor show called house, Never mind the fact that I obviously meant it to be in regards to use as civilian control, in the future I will make sure to make things crystal clear as to avoid you having to fill in the obvious blanks.

Yes I am Canadian and I am telling you what you should do, much the same way your government tells my government what to do. You see we are one and the same, I have the same cell phone, I watch the same t.v. shows, my governments wars are in reality your governments wars. My resources are your resources and we are happy to share them, you think your flag makes you different from me ? Your problems are my problems.

And no I did not put words in your mouth, you quite clearly stated that "we should not pass laws today because we don't know how it will effect the future" So in what scenario should we pass laws ? Because it kind of seems that by your reasoning that we shouldn't as long as there is going to be a future

Seriously don't just type


Dear DrunkNinja,

You still don't want to hear me, others will. No matter how emotional you attempt to make the thread, others will see the calm and the truth. You lie, I did not say that we should not make laws, that is a lie and anyone reading the thread can see that, I said we should allow others to change the laws, that is people in the future. Each generaltion should choose and will choose for themselves, don't be a control freak.

As for being Canadian and being told what to do by "my" government, what did you think of the fact that the queen of England locked your Parliment out of choosing, don't be silly, you are controlled by England. You have a representaive of the Queen that controls your army and your ability to vote. It is not the United States that locked your elected officials out of your Parliment. Before you tell me to handle my country, control your own.

I have known those who have not had consent for their care, I had the control, my father is only one of the people that I had control over his care. As smart as you may think your questions are, some of us have lived them and you clearly have not. Do you wish to ever choose how another lives and dies, I have done so more than once and wish I never had to again; but, that is reality for some of us.

You say that the technology exists to avoid having to check for bombs physically, really and you believe that there will not be found a way to get around it. Hmmm, that is not consistent with history. Try reading up on the red queen, a continual evolution of predator and prey. Your answer is not the only one and others have opinions and you cannot decide for eternity the answers, that is narcissitic. Allow for change, accept that understanding comes over time. Relax and stop thinking you know all the answers, you do not, you don't even know all the questions and neither do I.

reply to post by AQuestion


Wow you just don't stop,

You Said this

Dear DrunkNinja,
You still don't want to hear me, others will. No matter how emotional you attempt to make the thread,

and then later said

Do you wish to ever choose how another lives and dies, I have done so more than once and wish I never had to again; but, that is reality for some of us.

And then some of this which makes no sense

You lie, I did not say that we should not make laws, that is a lie and anyone reading the thread can see that, I said we should allow others to change the laws, that is people in the future. Each generaltion should choose and will choose for themselves, don't be a control freak.

What are you talking about ? Your just coming off as crazy like seriously get a clue ? Control freak ? WTF?

Everything you have written down is plain stupid I'm just going to call it as I see it, You constantly contradict yourself sometimes in the same sentence even. You have not offered any help and instead have decried any attempt to change any laws and that's it. your post's have been a complete waste of time and I regret responding to them, I won't make that mistake again as I can't talk to somebody as negative as you " we can't rely on bomb sniffing dogs the terrorists will find a way around it" you sound like george bush jr jr and I'm not reading the dribble that spills out under your name. Unless you got something useful to what I would like to do, like a law degree, please refrain from internet polluting. Have a great day

reply to post by DrunkNinja

....The civil rights and labor lobbies are losing ground every hour and need a boost. Get people to sway towards true justice and they may start to care about what true justice means and help out in the trenches your embattled in now, Know what I mean ?

Oh believe me I do. Even on a rather neutral topic like food I met with a lot of yawns and so whats. Then when HR-875 was introduced Lynn Cohen-Cole and the rest of us met with a disinfo campaign called HR 875 "stop the hysteria"

It seems Organic Consumers Assoc and Food & Water Watch are "Owned" by TPTB and were organized for the purpose of derailing any real grassroots protests.

his Post goes into a lot more detail about what I found when I researched Organic Consumers Assoc and Food & Water Watch.

I use this to illustrate the in-depth decades if not centuries old propaganda campaign we are actually up against.

SpartanKingLeonidas puts explains it so much better that I can (as usual)

....I do not think that the Internet is being used to start WWIII.

I do however see it as one of many battlefields where it was being fought.

Now, this is where and why I do not agree with certain celebrity "conspiracy theorists".

Say for instance, Alex Jones, or even David Icke, Julian Assange, and John Titor comes to mind.

Why do I say that and about those individuals in particular?

They try monopolizing upon the ignorance of mankind.

There has been and always has been an Information War ongoing for thousands of years.

Between every nation in the world.

This trumps any claim to WWIII.....

But the daddy long legs of wars would be the Information War which has been going on for thousands of years.

This is or could be termed a Propaganda War between nations, religions, and educational institutions.

The World-Wide Web of Surveillance of Your Online/Offline Activities

...and...

Going To Your Public Library, Gathering Open Source Intelligence, and Surviving

Between all of the various different countries, religions, and educational institutions throughout the world, a fight has been ongoing, for that of the minds of a populace so large, indoctrination as well as recruiting into each fold of societal difference throughout the fabric of mankind, with every intention of controlling those same said people through many avenues of control mechanisms.....

But with each country, each religions, and the various educational institutions within each, there is an infinite amount of warfare going on through an information campaign, again which has been going for thousands of years.

And the battlefield is not only including the Internet now in this day of electronic information.

But that same battlefield is not only being fought for your minds but within them as well....

reply to post by DrunkNinja


OK back a bit more on topic.

We in the US already have a "law" in place that prevents what the TSA is doing. It is called the CONSTITUTION.

The problem is TPTB has spend decades twisting the Constitution to change the meaning. The twisting of The Commerce Clause is probably the most significant anti-Constitution decision made by the US Supreme Court and has led to all sorts of abuses by the Federal Government.

Believe it or not the Federal Reserve Act was never brought before the Supreme Court!!!
Someone has gathered a bunch of info on the Daly court case that found the Federal Reserve Act and zero reserve banking illegal. HERE

Congressman McFadden also tried to bring the Federal Reserve to trial by impeachment and met the same fate as Justice Martin V. Mahoney, he was shot at twice and then poisoned.

His speeches are HERE

I keep bring up the Fed for the reason G Edward Griffin explains:

....This example of a $100,000 home, as shocking as it is, producing $172,741 unearned interest, this is just a grain of sand in the Sahara.

You have to multiply that by all the homes in America, by all of these hotels in America, all the high-rise buildings, all the factories, all the airplanes, automobiles, farm equipment, schools, everything, all the physical assets of America. You apply this same ratio and can you see it in your mind? We're talking about a river of unearned wealth that is so wide you can't even think of crossing it, flowing perpetually into the banking cartel. A dead short across the productive element of society. Money being taken from people who are working hard providing the material and the labor. They don't even know that this is being taken from them and it's in this huge river of wealth flowing into the banking cartel. It's a staggering thought.

You are led to the question of where is this river flowing? Where's it going?

....When a person has all the wealth that you could possibly want for the material pleasures of life, what is left? Power. They are using this river of wealth to acquire power over you and me and our children.

They are spending it to acquire control over the power centers of society. The power centers are those groups and institutions through which individuals live and act and rely on for their information. They are literally buying up the world but not the real estate and the hardware, they're buying control over the organizations, the groups and institutions that control people. In other words, to be specific, they are buying control over politicians, political parties, television networks, cable networks, newspapers, magazines, publishing houses, wire services, motion picture studios, universities, labor unions, church organizations, trade associations, tax-exempt foundations, multi-national corporations, boy scouts, girl scouts, you name it. Make your own list of organizations and you will find that this is where those people have been for many decades spending this river of wealth to acquire operational control particularly over those institutions and individuals, those organizations that represent opposition to themselves. That's a critical area for expenditure on their part. www.bigeye.com...

THAT is what we are fighting against!

Griffin brings up another very good point.

....And then at the insistence of Paul Warburg who was forever the master strategist, they added several very sound provisions to the Federal Reserve Bill. By that I mean they added some provisions which seriously restricted the ability of the Federal Reserve to create money out of nothing. Warburg's associates said, "Paul, what are you doing? We don't want those in there this is our bill." And his response was this, he said, "Relax fellas, don't you get it? Our object is to get the bill passed. We can fix it up later." Those were his exact words. "We can fix it up later."

He was so right. It was because of those provisions that they won over the support of William Jennings Bryan the head of the Populist Movement, the last hold-out against the bill. Bryan was concerned that this would be an instrument for ruining the nation's money supply but when he saw those provisions he said, "Oh well, those are good provisions, I guess I can support the bill now" never dreaming that this was temporary. Everything is temporary in politics. When people go to sleep things can get changed.

Warburg was right and they fixed it up later. The Federal Reserve Act since it was passed has been amended over 100 times. Every one of those provisions were long ago removed and many more have been added which greatly expand the power and reach of the Federal Reserve System to create money out of nothing. With this kind of professional strategy and deception these people were real professionals and the public didn't stand a chance.....

THAT is the hidden trap in ANY law that is passed

Once the debate is over and all the "compromises" have been made the public goes back to sleep and TPTB slips in the one liners that completely change the law back into what they really want.

It is better and SAFER to kill laws or repeal than to pass them so they can be manipulated. Always keep in mind Paul Warburg's words when you see a new law being debated

"Relax fellas, don't you get it? Our object is to get the bill passed. We can fix it up later."

The original of the "Food Safety Modernization Act" HR 875 included this.

"in any action to enforce the requirements of the food safety law, the connection with interstate commerce required for jurisdiction SHALL BE PRESUMED TO EXIST."

A similar clause was also missing from the original Animal Welfare Act. It took them about five years to slip the Commerce Clause Amendment in and about six months before a USDA agent was knocking on my door.

How long do you think it will be before they slip a Commerce Clause Amendment through Congress and start regulating Home Gardens???

I am NOT kidding about that either HERE is a lawyer's take on what that phrase means to home gardeners. He should know since he has fought several "Commerce Clause" cases in court.

Drunken Ninja,

One problem is, your OP seemed to be in support of tightened security for our nations. You are going to draw two kinds of people with that kind of statement, those who want more security and dont mind giving up any measure of freedom to get it, and those who dont want more security and who have an emotional response to any restriction of freedom.

Overlooking the unfortunate original seeming agreement that we need to be safer, which I disagree with vehemently, on to your problem.

You need a campaign that uses emotion to hook people in, much like the MSM uses. A big problem with arguments against the establishment is that they tend to be calm and rational, (Democracy Now, Noam Chomsky, etc,) or nuts. (David Icke)

You need a campaign that is 98% emotional, with flags, music, quick images merging into one another, short bytes of information, chanting, images of crowds, other patriotic imagery, much like the MSM uses to promote anything from car purchases to the war on terror. You need to take your clues from what the media REFUSES to show. Protests at home, police action on a large scale against citizens at home, people being evicted, empty housing developments, the human cost of our military action, the faces of our politicians when they look sinister and dark, in short, show what is being concealed by the MSM but wrap it in imagery, music, etc., that will bypass reason and go straight for the heart.

Thats how I see it. Im rational. That stuff annoys me, but Im probably 1% of the population in that regard. The majority are emotional. And if you want to appeal to them, you need to show the things a rational person sees, but you need to package it so that reason is bypassed almost entirely.

As for those who support the TSA... franklin said it best...

those who trade liberty for security deserve neither....

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I couldn't agree more, once the legal drafts are complete and I have something to sell we will wrap it with packaging right on par with what you describe. I realize that there will be opposition on both sides but we are losing ground daily and have to setup some sort of blockade to retain what we have now and repeal some of the overly intrusive measures that are being taken. If we fail to secure the rights we have now we will lose them no matter how watered down they are, there still rights and I plan on keeping them. If you would like to help by maybe forwarding video clips, articles or anything relevant to the packaging, please contact me and we can exchange emails. I am very serious about trying this as I believe that nothing else is working fast enough. I have raised a just over a thousand dollars to put towards lawyer fee's in its creation and have the resources in place to put together a sweeping social media drive, as well as a video production crew that is extremely accomplished. I also wanted to state to anyone reading this that if they would like a you tube video, article or any other media pushed higher in rankings and traffic please feel free to contact me and I can assist free of charge.

reply to post by DrunkNinja


I'll do my best, but Im not really that in touch with the "heart beat" of America. Im good with strategy, analysis, reason, logic, but Im just not really good at eliciting emotion in people. Except to piss them off by attacking their emotions with reason. Im great at that.

Maybe you should start a thread to start off, that asks something to the effect of, "what is your biggest worry about the US right now?" and take some temperatures. Isnt that what they do? Focus groups and polls and then target their media to those issues?

I promise you I will think about how I might be able to help, but I do know there are lots of people here who are much better at playing emotions than I. One who comes directly to mind is Schrodingers Dog. He is one of the rare few who is both rationals and who has a very firm grasp of pop culture. And he lives in DC if I am not mistaken and he might have more insight that way as well.

I havent seen him on lately, but, he may just be hanging out in more private areas. Message him.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

While researching the propaganda software, I ran across this, it may be useful to you.

www.sourcewatch.org...

A Hasbara manual for students to use on US univesity campuses is now available online[2]. A summary of the techniques is provided from page 31 onwards:

Propaganda is used by those who want to communicate in ways that engage the emotions and downplay rationality, in an attempt to promote a certain message.

The manual goes on to describe seven propaganda techniques:

1. Name calling: through the careful use of words, then name calling technique links a person or an idea to a negative symbol.
2. Glittering generality: Simply put, glittering generality is name calling in reverse. Instead of trying to attach negative meanings to ideas or people, glittering generalities use positive phrases, which the audience are attached to, in order to lend positive image to things. Words such as "freedom", "civilization",…
3. Transfer: Transfer involves taking some of the prestige and authority of one concept and applying it to another. For example, a speaker might decide to speak in front of a United Nations flag, in an attempt to gain legitimacy for himself or his idea.
4. Testimonial: Testimonial means enlisting the support of somebody admired or famous to endorse and ideal or campaign.
5. Plain folks: The plain folks technique attempts to convince the listener that the speaker is a 'regular guy', who is trust-worthy because the are like 'you or me'.
6. Fear: Stressing that ignoring the message will likely lead to war, terrorism[3]
7. Bandwagon: Suggest that the stated position is mainstream and use polls to suggest this. [4]