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Crappy economy, fraud everywhere, 3 wars...and GOP passes anti-abortion bill

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posted on May, 5 2011 @ 05:58 PM
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reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms
 


I wish people will think like you, but in America people that have not business having children get rewarded with the money of those that works for a living and plan their families according with their resources.




posted on May, 5 2011 @ 10:10 PM
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It's obviously cheaper to pay for abortion then the problems it would bring to let those irresponsible women actually become mothers.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by NadaCambia

Should abortion be made illegal? NO! DEFINITELY NOT! This is a sociological issue and a ban only causes people to seek out far more dangerous methods of abortion. But there needs to be a very serious conversation and some real policies and awareness campaigns, and education reforms and media responsibility - All these sort of things should be put into place to educate and dissuade people from getting into that situation. I think it was Noam Chomsky who said that somewhere between washing your hands and murdering your 3 year old there needs to be a conversation on the issue.



While I don't necessarily hold your views, I gave you a star because I love that you can hold these views but realize that, given the controversy of the topic, they should not be enforced on others. I don't believe abortion should be illegal either. And I remember reading about how there are more people who think abortion shouldn't be made illegal than there are people who don't think abortion is wrong. This shows that people, like yourself, that don't believe abortion is right shouldn't be illegal because of the social and even physical ramifications.

I am pro-choice. I mean exactly this. I think people should have the right to chose based on their beliefs simply for the fact that views on whether a fetus is conscious or not vary greatly. It is not something we can ever prove for certain. Therefore, it is not an issue that can be compared with murder, IMO. And I mean on social terms not in individual terms because obviously people do feel the two can be equated. The fact that others do not is what makes this an ideological issue.

I am a woman who has never known what it is like to be pregnant. I have someone very close to me and another not-so-close to me have an abortion. It was not a decision either one of them took lightly and it was not one that was out-of-sight, out-of-mind after all was said and done. I have read an article by someone who worked at an abortion clinic as a sort of counselor to determine if the woman was mentally fit to handle it. She was shocked at the number or women who said they did not believe in abortion, but there they were, sitting at her desk being evaluated for a procedure that would terminate their pregnancies. She would not clear them for the procedure because she knew that their beliefs would cause them to have severe mental anguish after-the-fact. This is more evidence that the issue is far from being black and white.

This bill discriminates against people who do not hold a certain ideological view and causes them to have to disclose their most intimate medical procedures. Marge brought up that a woman would have to prove that she didn't have an abortion with the medical expenses she is trying to deduct. But what has not been thought of, even by myself until now, is that people who aren't having abortions are also going to have to disclose their medical procedures that have nothing to do with having an abortion.

Thank you for contributing to the thread in a very diplomatic and considerate way. Threads like these tend to spiral into insanity. You've made it that much better

edit on 5-5-2011 by nunya13 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by nunya13
Thank you for contributing to the thread in a very diplomatic and considerate way. Threads like these tend to spiral into insanity. You've made it that much better


Trusts me when I tell you this I have been in worsts threads, that is why I try to stay away from abortion threads as much as I can, but this one is been authored by one of my favorite members and been a law involved I can not excuse myself. Plus the threads is not that bad.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:45 AM
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Most people that are pro-choice aren't pro killing fetuses and babies, I know it might seem that way to most pro-life people. Some, like myself are do not condone it at all. However, the other flip side of it would be the affects on society if it was otherwise, as well as certain issues that come up such as rape, incest, age, health of the mother (safety) that in most cases throw a real curve ball into the situation. There aren't any easy solutions to the problem at hand.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:51 AM
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So OP... please respond with your previous posts/comments concerning all these issues going on in the world and President Obama taking 14 vacations, playing 60 rounds of golf, having parties of Wednesday night at the White House (all at taxpayer expense), etc.

Same old double standard.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 11:29 AM
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I AM on birth control...but there are those who can't AFFORD it. Then, there are those who "damage" birth control, or tamper with the condoms and in some cases, the girl just has no choice. What if she is under 15 and was raped? What if she is in an abusive relationship? Or has health issues? Then what? I think it should be a matter of CHOICE. My second child was conceived when my boyfriend at the time got drunk and raped me because he felt he was entitled to have sex with me whenever he felt like it whether I wanted to or not...I chose to keep her, but, that was MY choice. I couldn't prove rape, as we were living together at the time, but I did leave him. I love my daughter very much, however, this type of situation happens ALL the time. A girl who is but a child herself, who gets "raped" should have the option to CHOOSE what best fits her needs. Otherwise, instead of your tax dollars paying for a one time abortion, which costs around $300-$500, you will be paying over $100,000 dollars in tax money to help support that child of rape when her mother has been forced to drop out of school and go on welfare as so many others have stated.

It should be a personal choice that revolves around the needs of the girl AND the unborn child. A child is not fit to raise a child.

KEEP YOUR LAWS OFF MY BODY!!!
edit on 6-5-2011 by anjl32 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by jjkenobi
So OP... please respond with your previous posts/comments concerning all these issues going on in the world and President Obama taking 14 vacations, playing 60 rounds of golf, having parties of Wednesday night at the White House (all at taxpayer expense), etc.

Same old double standard.


Republicans will have to come up with a better defense for their hypocrisy than saying "The Democrats do it too!"

Oh, but partisan minds only think in opposites; If the other guy is bad, that makes his counterpart good. Lol.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by nunya13

Originally posted by NadaCambia

Should abortion be made illegal? NO! DEFINITELY NOT! This is a sociological issue and a ban only causes people to seek out far more dangerous methods of abortion. But there needs to be a very serious conversation and some real policies and awareness campaigns, and education reforms and media responsibility - All these sort of things should be put into place to educate and dissuade people from getting into that situation. I think it was Noam Chomsky who said that somewhere between washing your hands and murdering your 3 year old there needs to be a conversation on the issue.



While I don't necessarily hold your views, I gave you a star because I love that you can hold these views but realize that, given the controversy of the topic, they should not be enforced on others. I don't believe abortion should be illegal either. And I remember reading about how there are more people who think abortion shouldn't be made illegal than there are people who don't think abortion is wrong. This shows that people, like yourself, that don't believe abortion is right shouldn't be illegal because of the social and even physical ramifications.

I am pro-choice. I mean exactly this. I think people should have the right to chose based on their beliefs simply for the fact that views on whether a fetus is conscious or not vary greatly. It is not something we can ever prove for certain. Therefore, it is not an issue that can be compared with murder, IMO. And I mean on social terms not in individual terms because obviously people do feel the two can be equated. The fact that others do not is what makes this an ideological issue.

I am a woman who has never known what it is like to be pregnant. I have someone very close to me and another not-so-close to me have an abortion. It was not a decision either one of them took lightly and it was not one that was out-of-sight, out-of-mind after all was said and done. I have read an article by someone who worked at an abortion clinic as a sort of counselor to determine if the woman was mentally fit to handle it. She was shocked at the number or women who said they did not believe in abortion, but there they were, sitting at her desk being evaluated for a procedure that would terminate their pregnancies. She would not clear them for the procedure because she knew that their beliefs would cause them to have severe mental anguish after-the-fact. This is more evidence that the issue is far from being black and white.

This bill discriminates against people who do not hold a certain ideological view and causes them to have to disclose their most intimate medical procedures. Marge brought up that a woman would have to prove that she didn't have an abortion with the medical expenses she is trying to deduct. But what has not been thought of, even by myself until now, is that people who aren't having abortions are also going to have to disclose their medical procedures that have nothing to do with having an abortion.

Thank you for contributing to the thread in a very diplomatic and considerate way. Threads like these tend to spiral into insanity. You've made it that much better

edit on 5-5-2011 by nunya13 because: (no reason given)


Thank you. Every now and then I make a decent post. You know what they say about broken clocks



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by NadaCambia
I think it's disgusting that abortion has been socially justified and promoted because people who traditionally oppose it have been right-wing Christians.

There's nothing extreme or right wing about opposing abortion. Many of the greatest Liberals and Left wing people of our times have opposed abortion. Think of probably the least insane, forward thinking religion on the planet? Most people would think Buddhism, Buddhists oppose abortion. Most hippies oppose abortion.

It's a disgusting act of murder and it's been justified under the guise of feminism and liberalism. Both of which are irrelevant to the issue.

Should abortion be made illegal? NO! DEFINITELY NOT! This is a sociological issue and a ban only causes people to seek out far more dangerous methods of abortion. But there needs to be a very serious conversation and some real policies and awareness campaigns, and education reforms and media responsibility - All these sort of things should be put into place to educate and dissuade people from getting into that situation. I think it was Noam Chomsky who said that somewhere between washing your hands and murdering your 3 year old there needs to be a conversation on the issue.

This idea that abortion is a woman's right and is generally a just action makes me sick to my (and I almost swore here) stomach!

If a man was to put some pills or chemicals in his partners food or drink, and conspired against her to have a forced miscarriage against her will, he'd be in jail! But females up and down this country are getting abortions against the will of the father. There's absolutely no moral difference. But we excuse one because it's a females right to kill unborn babies. The ego involved in that line of thinking is despicable .

This isn't a hard line Christian vs normal and forward thinking people issue. It's about ethics, you have them or you don't. If you think 100-200 years down the line that abortion will be socially acceptable I think you're all in for a huge shock. It will be less acceptable than it's ever been. More and more we come to understand the value of human life, the value of the life of other sentient beings, this awareness is increasing exponentially every decade. 100 years down the line an unborn baby will not be readily killed, people will not celebrate the murderous actions of pretend feminists - I assure you of this.

As a Socialist bordering on Anarchist I cannot lend myself to believe a ban is acceptable, it isn't, it doesn't address the causes of the problem, it simply takes away the right to a 'solution'. But socially abortion should be outright discouraged and something undertaken as a necessity, rather than abused by loose women who can't keep their legs closed.

It all comes back to education and morality, we're failing children and we're failing young men and women. BUT a law banning abortion isn't getting to he heart of the issue, it skims the surface.

If men were the sex to carry babies in today's political climate, we'd be shunned as murderers and probably get arrested for aborting babies against the will of our female partners.


well said and bravo!
knowing the history on Bolsheviks 1920 abortion "legal code" and the feminist movement and migration helps, also would like to clarify that "Christian"-of Christ Jesus, represents mankind in a new light or new creation and not a "religion" per say as the anti-christ/s/mankind like to stereotypically promote or portray

In her testimony before a Senate subcommittee in 2004, Dr. Elizabeth Shadigan testified that “abortion increases rates of breast cancer, placenta previa, pre-term births, and maternal suicide.... Statistically, all types of deaths are higher with women who have had induced abortions.”

“Abortion has completely failed as a social policy designed to aid women,” writes Serrin Foster, president of Feminists for Life. “It is a reflection that we have failed women.”


For the life of a creature is in the blood-

And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.-1Corinthians12

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation-James1

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam(Mankind), in the day when they were created.-Genesis5

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of One blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth-Acts17

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Cor15

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.(born again?)-2Corinthians5

there is a way that seems right to a man but the end is death



In 1971, the editors of California Medicine wrote in support of legalized abortion, but noted that the moral view underlying this change would only slowly be adopted.

Since the old [Judeo-Christian] ethic [of the sanctity of life] has not yet been fully displaced [by the new ethic which places relative rather than absolute value on human lives] it has been necessary to separate the idea of abortion from the idea of killing, which continues to be socially abhorrent. The result has been a curious avoidance of the scientific fact, which everyone really knows, that human life begins at conception and is continuous whether intra- or extra-uterine until death. The very considerable semantic gymnastics which are required to rationalize abortion as anything but taking a human life would be ludicrous if they were not often put forth under socially impeccable auspices. It is suggested that this schizophrenic sort of subterfuge is necessary because while a new ethic is being accepted the old one has not yet been rejected...
www.abortionfacts.com...



Taken all together, we have 401 million deaths over nearly 2000 years of war and barbarism. Just for the sake of argument, let’s add another 10%, or 40 million, to cover margins of error, and other wars. This would bring our total to 441 million deaths over the last 20 centuries.

Now, what about abortion? At the low end of the Guttmacher scale, even if we ignore all abortions done prior to 1980 when accurate numbers are a little more difficult to ascertain, abortion accounts for more than twice the number of deaths by war! In just the last 25 years, the ghastly toll for abortion has totaled over 900 million dead babies. Taking the more probable mean average, the toll rises to well over 1 billion babies; or nearly three times the amount of deaths due to war.www.covenantnews.com...



The cause of the problemAt least one-fifth of white children and two-thirds of black children are born to single mothers.1 At least 50% of all children born in the United States will live in a single parent household before they become adults.2 Fathers are abdicating their parental responsibilities and are causing women to choose abortion over motherhood.www.godandscience.org...


"The Father of Modern Genetics"
Dr. Lejeune explained that within three to seven days after fertilization we can determine if the new human being is a boy or a girl. "At no time," Dr. Lejeune said, "is the human being a blob of protoplasm. As far as your nature is concerned, I see no difference between the early person that you were at conception and the late person which you are now. You were, and are, a human being."

"determine if the new human being is a boy or girl"-
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.-Galatinas3

fetus-late 14c., "the young while in the womb or egg," from L. fetus (often, incorrectly, foetus) "the bearing, bringing forth, or hatching of young," from Latin base *fe- "to generate, bear," also "to suck, suckle" (see fecund). In Latin, fetus sometimes was transferred figuratively to the newborn creature itself, or used in a sense of "offspring, brood" (cf. Horace's "Germania quos horrida parturit Fetus"), but this was not the basic meaning. www.etymonline.com

Abortion is harmful to women physically and mentally!- men as well (I know for a fact), keeping in mind mental leads to physical


One third of abortions are performed on teenagers without their parents’ knowledge or consent.

over 80 percent say they would have carried to term under better circumstances or with the support of loved ones , over 60 percent report having felt "forced" to have the abortion by others or circumstances, and approximately 40 percent were still hoping to discover some alternative to abortion when going for counseling at the abortion clinic.

Perhaps one reason for the strong abortion/suicide link exists in the fact that in many ways abortion is like suicide. A person who threatens suicide is actually crying out for help. So are women who contemplate abortion. Both are in a state of despair. Both are lonely. Both feel faced by insurmountable odds.

Like the suicide clinics described above, abortion clinics also exploit desperate people. They promise to release clients from the darkness of their despair. They appeal to our consumer society's demand for instant solutions to all our problems. They pose as places of compassion, but they are actually reaping huge profits through the harvest of the lonely, frightened, and confused people who are "unwanted" by society. In place of life, they offer the "compassion" of death.

Granting the wish for suicide or abortion is not an aid to desperate people. It is abandonment. It is a false compassion that protects us from getting entangled in the "personal problems" of others. It is "cheap love." www.abortionfacts.com

(updated April 2010)
A report released by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) shows that the suicide rate among teen girls and young women has tripled in the past 25 years, despite an overall drop in suicide rates across the United States.

NIH reports that suicide is now the third leading cause of death among American young people, and the sixth leading cause of death for children between the ages of 5 and 14 www.physiciansforlife.org...

It is also worth noting the suicide rate among women in China is the highest in the world. Indeed, 56 percent of all female suicides occur in China, mostly among young rural women. It is also the only country where more women die from suicide than men..Given the known link between abortion and suicide, can there be any doubt that maternally-oriented Chinese women who are coerced by their families and communities to participate in these atrocities are more likely to commit suicide? www.abortiontv.com...

"The data clearly shows what we have long suspected: that abortion is harmful rather than helpful to women," said Elliot Institute director Dr. David Reardon, one of several researchers working on the study www.afterabortion.org...

A conspiracy of silence seems to surround the well-documented excess of suicide deaths among women with a history of abortion.Dr. Barry Garfinkel, head of the University of Minnesota's Child and Adolescent Psychiatry Department, surveyed teenagers "Suicide More Likely Among Aborted Teens" National Right to Life News 4 Apr. 2, 1987

For many women, it is a life changing event with significant physical, emotional, and spiritual consequences. Most women who struggle with past abortions say that they wish they had been told all of the facts about abortion and its risks

The NIH report revealed that suicide is now the third leading cause of death among America’s young people. In fact, for teen girls and young women, the suicide rate has tripled over the past 25 years. At the same time, suicide rates for Americans in general are dropping across the country. www.lifenews.com...

Aftershocks of Male Post-abortion Trauma: Suicidal ideation: We do now know how common this is, but it does occur especially in the fathers who wanted the child. When men identify the issue that is troubling them after an abortion experience, it is named as the loss of fatherhood. www.menandabortion.info...

Abortion has many victims, and one of them is the father of the child.. The laws of the United States do not acknowledge the right a father to stop the abortion of his own child, but rather place that act solely within the decision of the mother.. This raises a multitude of problems..On the one hand, the father who wants to defend the life of his child is often accused of meddling in something that is not his business. On the other hand, the father who wants to leave the (mistaken) decision of abortion in the hands of the mother alone is often accused of being uncaring and distant.
www.priestsforlife.org...

There is only one set of facts, only one embryology book is studied in medical school. The more scientific knowledge of fetal development that has been learned, the more science has confirmed that the beginning of any one human individual’s life, biologically speaking, begins at the completion of the union of his father’s sperm and his mother’s ovum, a process called "conception," "fertilization" or "fecundation." This is so be-cause this being, from fertilization, is alive, human, sexed, complete and growing.

Sir Albert Lilley, widely considered the "Father of Fetology", and unabashedly pro-life (as anyone with his vast knowledge of fetal development should be) makes some remarkable statements about fetal pain www.abort73.com

Mr. President:
As physicians, we, the undersigned, are pleased to associate ourselves with you in drawing the attention of people across the nation to the humanity and sensitivity of the human unborn
That the unborn, the prematurely born, and the newborn of the human species is a highly complex, sentient, functioning, individual organism is established scientific fact. That the human unborn and newly born do respond to stimuli is also established beyond any reasonable doubt.
The ability to feel pain and respond to it is clearly not a phenomenon that develops de novo at birth. Indeed, much of enlightened modern obstetrical practice and procedure seeks to minimize sensory deprivation of, and sensory insult to, the fetus during, at, and after birth. Over the last 18 years, real time ultrasonography, fetoscopy, study of the fetal EKG (electrocardiogram) and fetal EEG (electroencephalogram) have demonstrated the remarkable responsiveness of the human fetus to pain, touch, and sound. That the fetus responds to changes in light intensity within the womb, to heat, to cold, and to taste (by altering the chemical nature of the fluid swallowed by the fetus) has been exquisitely documented in the pioneering work of the late Sir William Liley -- the father of fetology. www.mpomerle.com...



Bill restricting abortion passes in Texas
Published: May 6, 2011 at 4:22 PM
www.upi.com...

“We seem to worship what we cannot see, but once it’s here” there is little support to keep the child healthy, educated and protected, Van de Putte said.

The legislation, hailed by abortion opponents as a way to entitle women to more information, would be in addition to a 24-hour waiting period and state-dictated medical information that already are required.www.dallasnews.com... e

In a victory for anti-abortion advocates, Texas will join the ranks of states that require doctors to perform a sonogram before conducting an abortion.

Gov. Rick Perry, a conservative Republican, made the bill, which the Legislature passed on Thursday, a priority and is expected to sign it. The bill requires a doctor to conduct a sonogram at least 24 hours before an abortion and to give the woman the opportunity to see the results and hear the heartbeat of the fetus.www.nytimes.com...


edit on 7-5-2011 by Rustami because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by Misoir
 


Slavery is women having to now bow down to the GOP idiots.
edit on 7-5-2011 by aero56 because: reword



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