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The BIG Question: What is so important in Cairo, IL that we would sacrifice precious resources for?!

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posted on May, 5 2011 @ 08:18 AM
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Don't think the decision had anything to do at all with this do you?




From Wikipedia

For the Geographically challenged Missouri is the red 11 in the middle of the country and Illinois is the blue 21.

Do not discount political motivations in making a decision like blowing a levy.

The floods are truly horrible news for anyone who eats. Not only are prices rising due to monetary debasement (thanks Ben), rise in input costs ( oil), but now we are going to have supply disruption.




posted on May, 5 2011 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by jefwane
 


Yes, i think it has much to do with that. As a matter of fact it has already been reported that when the local comissioner could not provide enough supporting reasons as to why they should not evacuate Cairo vs flooding the farmland he pulled the race card. Once that is on the table no politician in their right mind would challenge it unless they wanted to commit political suicide. It was a power move to save a town of 2,800 impovershed Americans who would have been given a second chance on the tax payer dime by having their town rebuilt higher up. However, now Illinois gets disaster relief, they don't have to pay to rebuild the town and have maintained the status Quo in Cairo to maintain their votes.

However, now Missouri will get NO disaster relief (man made disaster), has lost at least $520,000,000 in agricultural production for the local economy, and is being hit by lawsuits left and right from the, rightly so, furious farmers who just lost everything and cannot claim insurance.

Do not be fooled, this is a very BLATANT political manuver. They had to enforce a law put on the books in 1928 to rule in favor of Cairo and Illinois.

Again, if there was ever a blatant example of our governments' inefficiency and politically correct corruption, this is it.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by Mikemp44
 


Among a current ATS board full of new, heavy threads to wade through I have found a star. Wish I could give you multiple flags.

I don't care what anyone tries to say, you have NAILED it. Sad thing is, the only people that are going to care about this are the farmers affected, and those intelligent enough to understand what it actually means. Unfortunately, that is a VERY small percent of the the population.

There will be a lot of sweeping going on. This needs to be pushed to the forefront of the news. BUT HEY....guess what? It's little tied up right now.


This is such a prime example of how our current government has gone wrong. It isn't about the people anymore. It isn't about what is right.

Good luck. I have trying to spread awareness since the start of this, because most people here in Washington State are completely unaware. What people need to know though, is that we need to wake up and take notice. Do you think it is going to stop here??? It could happen here too. Where I live in Skagit Valley is prime farmland and we are surrounded by dikes which are also mismanaged by the army corps of engineers. We just went through some flooding again this past year and our dikes almost failed becuase the corps wouldn't approve dike repair that they knew was needed for YEARS.

We are all at the mercy of a political monster....it's only together that we can do anything about it.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by Mikemp44Do not be fooled, this is a very BLATANT political manuver. They had to enforce a law put on the books in 1928 to rule in favor of Cairo and Illinois.

Again, if there was ever a blatant example of our governments' inefficiency and politically correct corruption, this is it.


You got this right for sure...

I can't remember it off the top of my head but there was actually a small border war between two US states over a bridge or some kind of territory in our early history. Can't remember the two states but it think maybe Texas and Oklahoma for some reason come to mind.

Anyway - I say we take on Illinois; they may have Chicago but we got our share of gangsters in KCMO and ST Louis and a crap load of farmers and woodsmen besides.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by Mikemp44
 


You, my friend, have hit the nail on the head! I live in the bootheel. I am a farmer's daughter. I was an agronomy major in college. I now live on our farm(3800 acres), in the house that was built by my family in 1895. Our farm is NOT behind the levee, thank goodness.
We are witnessing "reverse discrimination" at it's finest.

An interesting thing happened this morning. I got a phone call from a friend of mine who is an attorney in West Plains, MO (which is about 2 hours west of the bootheel). He had just gotten a call from some of his attorney buddies in Washington. They were looking for a good contact to put them in touch with the farmers who farmed behind the levee (you know...the guys who lost it all). I gave him the number of the recently retired president of Missouri Farm Bureau; who farms right next to us. SOOO, it looks like Washington has finally gotten wind of what is going on here!!! Who knows if it can be fought, but it looks like somebody is looking for a fight. Which makes me proud.

Also, I noticed a comment toward "corporate farming" here. These are not corporate farmers. The average size of the farms were 2000 acres. We have a couple of corporate farms around here. They are 20,000 acres+.

And, Monsanto is not necessarily going to get their hands on this land. Monsanto has a LOT of enemy's here. But we do still have to use their seed. They just built a HUGE seed plant in Matthews. They don't need to own the land. We grow RoundUp Ready crops. But you WILL go to jail/be fined heavily, if you re-plant their technology (from last years crop). They send people around and take leaf samples (trespassing, yes), and if your crop has their technology in it (RoundUp Ready), you better have a record that you bought the seed from them and paid the $37/bag technology. I don't like Monsanto. I used to work for a competing company as a rep. But they don't need our land, when they already have us under their thumb.

Great thread!! And thanks for have the ca-hones (spelling?) to actually SAY what is REALLY going on with why they sacrificed the land for a crack head town. Politics at it's best. Well, worst, actually. Now we'll see if the attorneys in Washington can get anything done for the farmers. It's at least nice to know that someone actually noticed, and called BS.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by lowgo
 


I am bumping this thread because it needs WAY more attention. Hard to do right now with all that is going on.

I think it important to also hear the real stories from the people closest to it. I had no idea about the 'seed policing'. That is crazy!! So what, these seeds have a copyright or something? Bizarre to say the least.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 07:33 AM
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reply to post by westcoast
 


Yes, the seeds are patented (RoundUp Ready). They are to be grown for production only, and never to be saved for seed stock. And yes, they do police. They analyze the ratio of RoundUp herbicide purchased versus the bags of seed (and add in a multiplier for gallons purchased for other needs). They have the "red flags" down to a science. They investigated my father a few years ago, and he was a nervous wreck, even though he had done nothing wrong. There have been farmers in this area caught, and they have been fined, basically by confiscation of the crop in question.
Here are a couple of links.
Technology Use Guide

This is a simple pdf of what their rights are and how the investigations are done.
Site Visit

Sorry this is a little off topic, but it clearly shows, Monsanto has all the power they need.

I was talking to my father last night, and found out some interesting information. He said that growers "behind the levee" (as we call it b/c they are behind the main levee) are gamblers. They actually only get one crop out of three years, due to natural flooding. They are always hard pressed to actually harvest before the fall rains set in. Basically they gamble anyway.
AND when the land was originally sold to them from the government, the original owners were basically given the land...the figure was 50 cents an acre (although I suspect this number has been rounded) and the title had the Corps' rights written in. This was years ago. Just after 1937. My grandfather considered purchasing a tract of land there, as a side operation, and decided that the risks out weighed the benefits...or as the old school would say, "Nothin worth havin is free".

Since then, some of the land has been sold from the original owners, with an average of $3800 per acre. So the winners were the ones that cleared the land, improved it, and then SOLD it for a tidy profit (after capital gains taxes), and yes, the Corps' rights were still on the title/deeds, and it was known.

There is no answer. Just a few observations. This is all being discussed among the farmers here. I wish I could give you a source, but it's just my father. Who is a man of his word, and who sifts through the BS before repeating a word.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by lowgo
 


Thanks for posting, but after reading your thread and how you are like slaves under Monsanto seeds can still used their crap.

I tell you they are like leaches using gestapo tactics on those that make them profits.

despicable what they do.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 

I'm not a fan of Monsanto either. We actually plant Pioneer seeds (DuPont) but the technology fees still go to Monsanto. And their technology reduces the number of trips across the field, sparing diesel prices/equipment. Sooo...you basically have to suck it up and put your big pants on.

It's a business, and Monsanto has played the game well.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by lowgo
 


Thanks lowgo, I'm just absolutely taken back by the audacity of our officials to render judgement based upon precedent rather then common sense or efficiency, especially in such trying times for all Americans; and the world frankly. Without food we die, you can't eat an EBT card...


That's true Monsanto doesn't need the land, by contract extension of the seed you use they already own the important part! But like you said business as usual... sigh. In this day in age I think its farmers who should be getting huge tax breaks and assistance with machinery, fuel subsidies, etc... because without you guys WE DON'T EAT!!!!


Just because I'm curious, what do you think the average farmers networth is in the bootheel? I'm just asking because it would better help me with my number crunching.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by Mikemp44
 


Thank you for supporting farmers! You are spot on. It's a hard life, and all anybody sees is that farmer driving around in his new truck, right?


As far as your question of net worth...that's tricky. Because most don't own all of the land they farm. Cash rent is on average $125 per acre per year. Here are a few figures I do know.

The average farmer down here is 2000 acres.
Based on that number (these are averages)

$1.6MM per year in loan (average...cotton is higher).
They usually have $1MM in equipment. (A 12 row combine 2years old sells for 550,000) So this is on the low end.

Most live all year on the loan. Pay employees. This includes getting the crop out, and hauling it to the selling point.
They will MAYBE net $20,000-$25,000 at the end of the year to put toward retirement. Most are a "wash" at the end of the year, and living loan to loan.

Retiring is hard. My dad is trying to retire (67), and can't. He hasn't built up enough to retire on after taxes from liquidation of equipment. This is very common here. He has a group of friends his age, and they want to retire, and just can't make the numbers work. He'll auction $4MM in equipment, and be left with very little of it, due to the capital gains taxes. He'll lease land we own out, but he'll only get about 1/3 of that money b/c the land taxes are so high, then income taxes.

It has only gotten worse with the tax changes via Obama. And its going to get worse in 2012 with more tax changes being implemented for farmers who borrow more than $500,000 per year.

It sounds very gloomy, BUT my dad loves what he does. His grandfather cleared this land. I still come home from work an hop on a tractor to help out during peak times. It's just what we do.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by lowgo
 


Thanks for the answer I am a big supported of organic growers and avoid GMOs as much as I can, been from the old school (when people used to cook fresh from scratch) I can also afford to spend more money on groceries and cook everyday.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 12:49 AM
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reply to post by lowgo
 


Thank you so much for clearly explaining the Monsanto debacle. I had a friend who worked for them and he would never explain it as well.

I was thinking "race" when Cairo came up. Political hot potato. Illinois moved Grafton (white area) when it flooded.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 01:26 AM
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reply to post by katfish
 

Happy to help! Monsanto is required to post all of the documentation for public review. It's just a matter of knowing where to find it. And most people who don't grow crops never see those documents. It's a lengthy contract that is signed at the beginning of the season!

I really hate to say it, at the risk of sounding racist...which I am certainly NOT, but this is a race issue. But in reverse. Heaven forbid we don't take care of the "black man" because we owe it to them. I'm just tired of people and their entitlement issues. Get out and work, then we'll talk. It's not the caucasians that play the race card every opportunity.

AND I was in Metropolis working today. I walked into the post office to mail a package, and there was a crazy long line. It was all people from Cairo, raising cain, because they don't know how to get their May 1st welfare checks. And when I say raising cain, I mean much more. Screaming, cussing, throwing fits.

This is what we blew our levee for. Ungrateful, sorry....I'm going to stop there...and just shake my head.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 01:35 AM
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I posted this in the other big thread, but thought I'd post it here as well.

If you have a moment, please take a look at this video. It was a webcast from the Sikeston newspaper from today with Congresswoman Jo Ann Emerson:
Jo Ann Emerson Interview

Congresswoman Emerson (R-Missouri), is a good friend of my family, and one of the most forthright politicians I know. She calls a spade a spade. This is a very informative interview about the levee breach. Emerson was the woman who tried to stand on the levee to keep them from blowing it while waiting on the Supreme Court to review Missouri's appeal last Sunday.

Here is what is FISHY to me, Obama has already declared Major Disasters for flood in:
Kentucky
Arkansas
Tennessee
Mississippi,
Louisiana, and
Illinois

BUT NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING for Missouri. Emerson expects that we will be added soon(she's clearly ticked), but this flood started here. And we are the last to get the nod from FEMA??? WTH??

You guys have a clue? Because I have no flippin idea.
FEMA Declared Disasters 2011



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 01:41 AM
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Originally posted by Mikemp44
So with this knowledge in hand, the one blatant and overwhelming question is, why? What was in Cairo that was so important that we destroy so much and hurt so many, including our economy, to save?


Several billions of dollars worth of infrastructure, with the potential that the town, if inundated, would be a permnanat loss, leaving nearly three thousand people homeless and facing a complete loss of assets.


Don't get me wrong, i feel for the people who live in Cairo as well, they stood and still stand to lose everything, which would be tragic unto itself. However, the town was built KNOWING it was in the path of destruction, and that this current event would happen at some point. It is not a large city, it has nothing remarkable about it other than it being between two major rivers in the flood plains. Oh and I heard it has great BBQ.


And the farmers are growing their crops on a flood plain, too. This argument doesn't make much sense - pretty much everyone within driving distance of the Mississippi basin is in a "flood zone." Hell, that's why the farms are there!


But seriously, what is there? What was worth protecting? I have searched for many articles looking for an answer to this, even asked some friends of mine who are in MO state politics and even they cannot answer it...


The farmland could be reclaimed in 3-5 years. Most of the farmers - and that's about 90 people, from what I've read - will be compensated. The other option was to inundate a town of twenty-eight hundred people, possibly killing the entire town and causing billions in losses vs. millions lost by flooding the farmland. Further by not breaching the levy, not only would Cairo be inundated, but so would farmland in Kentucky. And odds are, the water would proceed to fill up Missouri farmland anyway.


So I present the question to you my fellow ATSers, why did they do this? Is there some strategic base there? What are they hiding and why? It just screams of a 'sweep under the carpet' move by the government, what are they hiding/protecting?!?


No, it's simply that if you have a choice between destroying a town of twenty-eight hundred people and creating another wave of flood refugees, or causing repairable damage to farmland and compensating most of the owners for the damages, you're going to make the corn soggy.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 02:10 AM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


I understand where you are coming from. There are a few pieces you are missing. The WHOLE town of Cairo is possibly worth $2MM. If you aren't from the area, google Cairo, IL and take a look at the demographic. Most of the town has been vandalized and burned to the ground from arsonists, and it has never been repaired. There is no industry there to speak of, other than a grain elevator and a few gas stations and a Dollar General store. The relocation of the town would not cause Billions in damage. Furthermore, at the time the CoE blew the levee, the whole town had already been evacuated.
True, local farmlands were flooded in other states(my family has personally had 3500 acres under water, and lost 1200 acres that were already planted in corn). But the levee blast was a temporary solution. It provided relief for one week. AND further burdened downstream communities (right now, Memphis).
Please watch the video I provided a link to in my above post with Jo Ann Emerson. She addresses many points in a much better fashion than can I.

The cost of repair to the levee breach area was estimated at @$350MM in 1991. Emerson did the math and converted that to 2010 value of the dollar and it is actually >$800MM

Also, as an agronomist, I can say with certainty, that the farmland that was lost is not an easy fix. This levee was blown in 1937. The top soil was swept away, and 6-8 feet of sand was left in its place. We are talking at LEAST 10-15 years before the 133,000 acres are fertile again. There is no way that the government can replace that in dollars. Their land just went from being valued at $3380 per acre to worthless.

I'm sorry, but even people who live in Cairo, think the place needs to be bulldozed.
Now we get to not only repair Cairo, but also deal with lost acreage, and two agricultural counties (population 64,000) that have been economically crippled.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by lowgo
reply to post by katfish
 

I really hate to say it, at the risk of sounding racist...which I am certainly NOT, but this is a race issue. But in reverse. Heaven forbid we don't take care of the "black man" because we owe it to them. I'm just tired of people and their entitlement issues. Get out and work, then we'll talk. It's not the caucasians that play the race card every opportunity.

AND I was in Metropolis working today. I walked into the post office to mail a package, and there was a crazy long line. It was all people from Cairo, raising cain, because they don't know how to get their May 1st welfare checks. And when I say raising cain, I mean much more. Screaming, cussing, throwing fits.


Amen sister!!! Don't ever be afraid to call it like it is!! Big fat stars on ALL your posts and a flag. Good info on the GMO fools too. I had know idea about this leavee thing either, great info



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 11:00 AM
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What happened to Cairo?

I remember as a kid (I am 65) driving through and it was a "normal midwestern town". Nothing special just normal. This would have been in about 1960's.



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by mappam
 


When you drove through Cairo at that time it had about a population of 40,000 and was a mid-size midwestern town that had a lot of trade going through it. Now half of it is either crumbling or burned to the ground and sports a population of 2,800, with over half the population in poverty. Its a dying town thats been dying for a while.





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