Obama took SIXTEEN HOURS to make up his mind about Bin Laden mission

reply to post by Golf66


Golf66, you seem to be talking like you know something here and claim to have served on the J2 staff at JSOC yet your background would not even get you an S2 or G2 staff. Also J2 does not do any mission or operational planning nor do the even have a need to get involved with what units are used or thier capabilities. You stated you did briefings while at J2 as an NCO. While an NCO may do this at an S2 level, it would never happen at a Joint Command level. If you had served on the J2 staff you would know they deal strictly with Intel only and that only the senior most officers J2 would be in the room durring an operational briefing.

reply to post by Sinnthia


the way the media and the white house portrayed it, he struggled with the decision to green light the operation. if, as they claim, they were watching the house, and OBL, for months, I think it's safe to assume they were ready to go as soon as they knew the target was there. Thus, the decision of whether or not we take out a man we've spent, possibly, a trillion dollars, and thousands of lives over a decade, was weighed. If you spend the better part of ten years and insane funds, trying to accomplish a goal, and then the goal is in your reach, what would hold you back?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I read an article in the NY Observer that discussed the timeline and the dinner and, it seems, the operation was postponed due to weather, meaning Obama knew about the op and it was good to go, as soon as the weather permitted. Thus,Obama was cracking jokes while awaiting the start of a decision that took 16 hours to make.

Found this on another site and thought ATS could confirm it's validity. Apologies for it's length.

Note: This update comes some 24 hours after our longtime Washington D.C. Insider first outlined shocking details of an Obama administration having been “overruled” by senior military and intelligence officials leading up to the successful attack against terrorist Osama Bin Laden. What follows is further clarification of Insider’s insights surrounding that event.
_______
Q: You stated that President Obama was “overruled” by military/intelligence officials regarding the decision to send in military specialists into the Osama Bin Laden compound. Was that accurate?

A: I was told – in these exact terms, “we overruled him.” (Obama) I have since followed up and received further details on exactly what that meant, as well as the specifics of how Leon Panetta worked around the president’s “persistent hesitation to act.” There appears NOT to have been an outright overruling of any specific position by President Obama, simply because there was no specific position from the president to do so. President Obama was, in this case, as in all others, working as an absentee president.

Read more in Issues
I was correct in stating there had been a push to invade the compound for several weeks if not months, primarily led by Leon Panetta, Hillary Clinton, Robert Gates, David Petraeus, and Jim Clapper. The primary opposition to this plan originated from Valerie Jarrett, and it was her opposition that was enough to create uncertainty within President Obama. Obama would meet with various components of the pro-invasion faction, almost always with Jarrett present, and then often fail to indicate his position. This situation continued for some time, though the division between Jarrett/Obama and the rest intensified more recently, most notably from Hillary Clinton. She was livid over the president’s failure to act, and her office began a campaign of anonymous leaks to the media indicating such. As for Jarrett, her concern rested on two primary fronts. One, that the military action could fail and harm the president’s already weakened standing with both the American public and the world. Second, that the attack would be viewed as an act of aggression against Muslims, and further destabilize conditions in the Middle East.

Q: What changed the president’s position and enabled the attack against Osama Bin Laden to proceed?
A: Nothing changed with the president’s opinion – he continued to avoid having one. Every time military and intelligence officials appeared to make progress in forming a position, Jarrett would intervene and the stalling would begin again. Hillary started the ball really rolling as far as pressuring Obama began, but it was Panetta and Petraeus who ultimately pushed Obama to finally act – sort of. Panetta was receiving significant reports from both his direct CIA sources, as well as Petraeus-originating Intel. Petraeus was threatening to act on his own via a bombing attack. Panetta reported back to the president that a bombing of the compound would result in successful killing of Osama Bin Laden, and little risk to American lives. Initially, as he had done before, the president indicated a willingness to act. But once again, Jarrett intervened, convincing the president that innocent Pakistani lives could be lost in such a bombing attack, and Obama would be left attempting to explain Panetta’s failed policy. Again Obama hesitated – this time openly delaying further meetings to discuss the issue with Panetta. A brief meeting was held at this time with other officials, including Secretary Gates and members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but Gates, like Panetta, was unable to push the president to act. It was at this time that Gates indicated to certain Pentagon officials that he may resign earlier than originally indicated – he was that frustrated. Both Panetta and Clinton convinced him to stay on and see the operation through.

What happened from there is what was described by me as a “masterful manipulation” by Leon Panetta. Panetta indicated to Obama that leaks regarding knowledge of Osama Bin Laden’s location were certain to get out sooner rather than later, and action must be taken by the administration or the public backlash to the president’s inaction would be “…significant to the point of political debilitation.” It was at that time that Obama stated an on-ground campaign would be far more acceptable to him than a bombing raid. This was intended as a stalling tactic, and it had originated from Jarrett. Such a campaign would take both time, and present a far greater risk of failure. The president had been instructed by Jarrett to inform Mr., Panetta that he would have sole discretion to act against the Osama Bin Laden compound. Jarrett believed this would further delay Panetta from acting, as the responsibility for failure would then fall almost entirely on him. What Valerie Jarrett, and the president, did not know is that Leon Panetta had already initiated a program that reported to him –and only him, involving a covert on the ground attack against the compound. Basically, the whole damn operation was already ready to go – including the specific team support Intel necessary to engage the enemy within hours of being given notice. Panetta then made plans to proceed with an on-ground assault. This information reached either Hillary Clinton or Robert Gates first (likely via military contacts directly associated with the impending mission) who then informed the other. Those two then met with Panetta, who informed each of them he had been given the authority by the president to proceed with a mission if the opportunity presented itself. Both Gates and Clinton warned Panetta of the implications of that authority – namely he was possibly being made into a scapegoat. Panetta admitted that possibility, but felt the opportunity to get Bin Laden outweighed that risk. During that meeting, Hillary Clinton was first to pledge her full support for Panetta, indicating she would defend him if necessary. Similar support was then followed by Gates. The following day, and with Panetta’s permission, Clinton met in private with Bill Daley and urged him to get the president’s full and open approval of the Panetta plan. Daley agreed such approval would be of great benefit to the action, and instructed Clinton to delay proceeding until he had secured that approval. Daley contacted Clinton within hours of their meeting indicating Jarrett refused to allow the president to give that approval. Daley then informed Clinton that he too would fully support Panetta in his actions, even if it meant disclosing the president’s indecision to the American public should that action fail to produce a successful conclusion. Clinton took that message back to Panetta and the CIA director initiated the 48 hour engagement order. At this point, the President of the United States was not informed of the engagement order – it did not originate from him, and for several hours after the order had been given and the special ops forces were preparing for action into Pakistan from their position in Afghanistan, Daley successfully kept Obama and Jarrett insulated from that order.

This insulation ended at some point with an abort order that I believe originated from Valerie Jarrett’s office, and was then followed up by President Obama. This abort order was later explained as a delay due to weather conditions, but the actual conditions at that time would have been acceptable for the mission. A storm system had been in the area earlier, but was no longer an issue. Check the data yourself to confirm. Jarrett, having been caught off guard, was now scrambling to determine who had initiated the plan. She was furious, repeating the acronym “CoC” and saying it was not being followed. This is where Bill Daley intervened directly. The particulars of that intervention are not clear to me beyond knowing he did meet with Jarrett in his off ice and following that meeting, Valerie Jarrett was not seen in the West Wing for some time, and apparently no longer offered up any resistance to the Osama Bin Laden mission. What did follow from there was one or more brief meetings between Bill Daley, Hillary Clinton, a representative from Robert Gates’ office, a representative from Leon Panetta’s office, and a representative from Jim Clapper’s office. I have to assume that these meetings were in essence, detailing the move to proceed with the operation against the Osama Bin Laden compound. I have been told by more than one source that Leon Panetta was directing the operation with both his own CIA operatives, as well as direct contacts with military – both entities were reporting to Panetta only at this point, and not the President of the United States. There was not going to be another delay as had happened 24 hour earlier. The operation was at this time effectively unknown to President Barack Obama or Valerie Jarrett and it remained that way until AFTER it had already been initiated. President Obama was literally pulled from a golf outing and escorted back to the White House to be informed of the mission. Upon his arrival there was a briefing held which included Bill Daley, John Brennan, and a high ranking member of the military. When Obama emerged from the briefing, he was described as looking “very confused and uncertain.” The president was then placed in the situation room where several of the players in this event had already been watching the operation unfold. Another interesting tidbit regarding this is that the Vice President was already “up to speed” on the operation. A source indicated they believe Hillary Clinton had personally made certain the Vice President was made aware of that day’s events before the president was. The now famous photo released shows the particulars of that of that room and its occupants. What that photo does not communicate directly is that the military personnel present in that room during the operation unfolding, deferred to either Hillary Clinton or Robert Gates. The president’s role was minimal, including their acknowledging of his presence in the room.

At the conclusion of the mission, after it had been repeatedly confirmed a success, President Obama was once again briefed behind closed doors. The only ones who went in that room besides the president were Bill Daley. John Brennan, and a third individual whose identity remains unknown to me. When leaving this briefing, the president came out of it “…much more confident. Much more certain of himself.” He was also carrying papers in his hand that quite possibly was the address to the nation given later that evening on the Bin Laden mission. The president did not have those papers with him prior to that briefing. The president then returned to the war room, where by this time, Leon Panetta had personally arrived and was receiving congratulations from all who were present.
In my initial communication to you of these events I described what unfolded as a temporary Coup initiated by high ranking intelligence and military officials. I stand by that term. These figures worked around the uncertainty of President Obama and the repeated resistance of Valerie Jarrett. If they had not been willing to do so, I am certain Osama Bin Laden would still be alive today. There will be no punishment to those who acted outside the authority of the president’s office. The president cannot afford to admit such a fact. What will be most interesting from here is to now see what becomes of Valerie Jarrett. One source indicated she is threatening resignation. I find that unlikely given my strong belief she needs the protection afforded h er by the Oval Office and its immense powers to delay and eventually terminate investigations back in Chicago, but we shall see.

Read more: socyberty.com...

reply to post by Sinnthia


Okay I will answer you. If the President is being asked to give the word for a mission to go down then all the ramifications have already BEEN considered. I will draw an analogy for you. A sniper has carefully stalked his prey. He has waited days at his current hide to get a view of his target. He sees his target appear, settles in behind his scope. He slows his breathing. Range is know, wind is accounted for. He adds one more Mil to the drop. Then he waits.......and waits......and waits. FOR 16 HOURS!

Now like I said before I dont have an issue with him waiting per say. It kind of depends on when he was asked to give the go. If the teams were sitting in a helo on a ramp in Kabul ready to fly when they asked him then waiting 16 hours to launch is unacceptable as my analogy clearly shows. If he was asked to give his go to put those steps into motion FIRST then I have less of an issue with it.

Ok, so it took 16 hours for him to make the decision. In that view, why is no one complaining that it took four year to decide to drop two atomic bombs on japan on August 6, 1945, after they attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941? No doubt, countless lives could have been spared during the war? The reason why is that the decision for a moral person to decide the fate of people, be it only one or a million is a hard decision. Not one that is made lightly. Maybe I would have have given the go at the first indication of his location. BUT, that is the reason why I, nor any of us here on ATS that feel the same way will ever lead the country.
Also, for any that doubt that Osama was even alive and there, ask yourselves this,
1. Why was his wife there, and didnt she know him by face?
2. Who were the occupants of the "mansion" defending?
3. Considering the number of kids that Osama had, do you really think he spent his nights wearing a bomb vest?
My list of questions could go on and on, but those are just a few to ponder.
4. And finally, what would be your reason for the whole story to just be fabricated?
5. If this whole thing is a charade, meaning Osama has been dead for years, then OK, George W. and Barak O. can both share the same cell, it would mean after all that each administration knew the facts, correct?

reply to post by Dragoon01

I can recall during desert storm being on stand-by for deployment for 9 days, and the war had begun well before that. Also, part of a snipers training IS to be able to stay concealed while keeping his taget in sight, its expected for them to be able to do that often for over 48 hours under c&c.
So far, the 16 hours is reportedly the amount of time that he waited before giving the order for the mission, not the amount of time that the SEALS were hovering or waiting just outside the walls of the compound.

Originally posted by lance_covel
If this whole thing is a charade, meaning Osama has been dead for years, then OK, George W. and Barak O. can both share the same cell, it would mean after all that each administration knew the facts, correct?

personally, I think he has been dead for a while but we never head 100% confirmation and this mission confirmed it.

Thus, no body.
Thus, a story that seems to change each time someone raises a question regarding the current version of the event.
Thus the 16 hours. If he was presumed to be dead but no proof, the decision to infiltrate a home, in a suburb, of a nation we are not at war with, risking innocent lives, risking global backlash etc would be huge, thus the 16 hours.

If he was alive and was there, it's a no brainer and the 16 hours is ridiculous.

reply to post by Crakeur


Thing is that I believe there is a change that they didn't know that OBL was there. They were surveying the house for a long time. However when wikileaks revealed that OBL's courier had been compromised it forced the issue. That's why they didn't use a sniper or a bomb on the compound. They had to go in and make sure they had him.

reply to post by Crakeur

Originally posted by Crakeur
personally, I think he has been dead for a while but we never head 100% confirmation and this mission confirmed it.

I'd be willing to consider your point about OBL being dead already, but you'd have to answer a lot of tricky questions first:

If OBL was killed or died years ago, why would all the people who are very close to him let the US take credit for his death now? Somebody somewhere, who is close to this dirt bag would've said something. If he died secretly in a cave with his buddies around him, then I'd have to imagine his buddies wouldn't appreciate us taking credit for killing him. And it would've been made known by now, wouldn't you think?

Instead Al Qaeda has confirmed his death as it happened.

Thus the 16 hours. If he was presumed to be dead but no proof, the decision to infiltrate a home, in a suburb, of a nation we are not at war with, risking innocent lives, risking global backlash etc would be huge, thus the 16 hours.
If he was alive and was there, it's a no brainer and the 16 hours is ridiculous.

It's still a huge decision, no matter what the presumption was. As far as we knew, the man was still alive, since there hadn't been a peep about his death in the last 10 years. You have to presume he's still alive. But we were possibly only 60% sure he was even in that home, so yeah, all those major concerns you mentioned would still apply IMO... This was in no way a slam dunk, even if we were 100% sure! Thus the 16 hours.

I don't see how the risk is any different whether we're going in knowing he's there and alive or not. It's a complex mission either way and each scenario carries it's own sets of risks and consequences. All of which need to be deeply evaluated. Options must be weighed. Contingency plans must be organized and set in place if this mission were to fail.

It's clearly not a no brainer. And it makes sense to me why it took 16 hours to make the decision, if that's even a fact to begin with...

Do you really still think he was dead long before this raid? After all that's happened now?

Had the decision been made in only 2 hours, would you still feel the same way?

Considering they had planned weeks for this and even practiced on full sized mock ups, I say this is non story. More fodder from Obama detractors. The ends justifies the means.....period

the fabled SEAL Team 6 (24 had executed practice raids on a full-size mock-up of the compound located at Camp Alpha – Bagram military base on April 7th and 13th).

Mentions training at the mock ups

The Secret Team That Killed bin Laden

nationaljournal.com...



Waiting for opportune moment or to confirm decision without jeopardizing mission is a virtue in my book....patience.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest

it's no small thing putting the best seal team we have in harms way, and if it had gone wrong it would have been his legacy

If this had gone wrong, the only way any of us would have known about it is through a Wikileaks leak in a few years time IF we were lucky.
There would have no backlash whatsoever cause no one would have known about it.

Not that I think this was real anyway. Bin Ladens been dead for years.

Originally posted by Flighty

Originally posted by syrinx high priest

it's no small thing putting the best seal team we have in harms way, and if it had gone wrong it would have been his legacy

If this had gone wrong, the only way any of us would have known about it is through a Wikileaks leak in a few years time IF we were lucky.
There would have no backlash whatsoever cause no one would have known about it.

That's a big [size=10]if. Hint it didn't go wrong. Sure it was a risk and gamble but it paid off. The operation has been described as "gutsy" and "brilliant" notwithstanding the fact they reverted to Plan B after a helicopter failure.

Those who seek to diminish this victory for American justice disparage the bravery and courage of all who were involved. I suspect the same people would complain to their surgeon for leaving a scar after a life saving operation.

A life......."O" Bashers should get one.

reply to post by kinda kurious


I'm not American so have no vested interest in either political party.
This is my view of what I've read over the years and what I'm reading now.
So please cut the O bashing criticism. Not everyone who posts here is an American Republican.

reply to post by Golf66


True, it may have been planned, practiced and preached for the past 6 months. Certainly, military personel BENEATH his authority were advising him. That much is obvious from that still shot we have all seen of them watching who-knows-what. But, no matter how much advice he takes from subordinates, or how much he ignores, the simple fact is that he alone will be the one who has to answer to any decision that he makes. Surely with your military experience you can comprehend that fact? As one ex-military person to another, I do respect your decision. During my service to our country I did not like every President, CC or BM nor did I like every order that I had to follow. The choice was always nut-up-and get-it done.

reply to post by kinda kurious


I joined in 2006 and if you read some of my posts in the 9/11 forum you might get the gist that I'm not biased against Obama only as you are trying to make out. Bush was President at the time of 9/11 so any criticisms of what happened then, is a criticism of his government.

If you bother to read some of my posts rather than just grab one of the very few threads that I've actually started (which I don't bother to do anymore) then you'll find I'm seeking truth rather than pushing one particular political barrow.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Oh, if only he'd gone in, guns blazing, more like George Bush!

I LOVE the fact that Obama is a pragmatic thinker, planning and analytical. I LOVE that he waited until he was absolutely sure that this operation would be successful before giving the orders. People can complain all they want about how he did this, but I will be forever grateful that he did this right and didn't repeat Jimmy Carter's Iran Hostage rescue attempt. Operation Eagle Claw

You can criticize Obama's actions all you want but it was a fantastic success.

He finally decides to do the right thing but then tries everything he can do to trick
the world into believing it was NOT an assassination.
I feel sorry for that press secretary at the White House. He was standing up there
talking in circles.
- When you hear 3 different stories, someone is hiding something. -

Just a followup on the "certainty factor"

President Obama told CBS' 60 Minutes he was no more than 55% certain that Osama bin Laden was even inside a Pakistan compound when he ordered the raid that led to the death of the al-Qaeda terrorist leader a week ago.

Source

This is even lower than the 60%-80%numbers I remember hearing as "official." Very interesting.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


he also said he gave the green light Friday morning which makes his laughing at the Bin Laden joke Saturday a bit more ironic.