Obama took SIXTEEN HOURS to make up his mind about Bin Laden mission

reply to post by Crakeur

No rebuttal to my post on page 2?

Originally posted by ShaunHatfieldIn your wee little mind, do you picture him taking the 16 hours to critique the actual plan?? Ya think he might be contemplating invading a sovereign country (a nuclear one) in the middle of the night? maybe?

I think I made clear what I figured he was doing in that 16 hours - working out how he can make himself still look good if it all went to #. Planning the "how great I am speeches and how to exploit the event for his poll numbers. All Presidents do that - he is not unique that he considered these things only that he takes so long to make any decision.

You obviously have no clue what go/no-go mission status means. All the deliberations have been made you just need the final roger - I am no longer privy to those events and I admitted I am speculating based on doctrine and experience. I will give him no benefit of a doubt when it comes to the decision at all...he hasn't earned it.

Originally posted by ShaunHatfieldWhy would she be on her knees? Are you implying something? Kind of like your kools, b-ball and koolaid comments? You should start trying to get over yourself.. it might take a while!

I don't imply anything - knees = worship as I stated earlier.

Does the POTUS Smoke - Check (especially when nervous)
What Brand - Kool Menthol - check
Doe's he pride himself for a Good Jump Shot - check
Does he sup with Jesse Jackson - check

Think I got them all.

As for getting over myself - I'm good I have been retired for some time now I lead dairy cows and I wouldn't trust the POTUS with them either.

Do I dislike the man you bet - do I think he is evil no, he is just a poor leader who waffles when men's lives matter the most. He did it with surge in the Stan and any other decision for that matter.

so
OBAMA killed osama for ALEGEDLY killing unarmed civilians in an act of war
Obama kills civilians with drones every day
after all he is in charge
did obama give the order to go in and get gadaffii too?
to kill his children
they have been killing civies there too

I sn't that why the US is trying to assassinate gahdafii and claims to have killed O'sama
killing civilians

guess your president is on that list of his own design too
killing unarmed civilians being what the US says it is
waco ruby ridge kent state...using DU, vaccinating the troops, the not guilty on death row)

hypocrit much?
how KITTY does it get down there EH?
you probably don't have enough guns to defend these actions
better buy some more

if anything the US ever said was true
( same story on TWO days even, let alone proved?, )
the smallest army in the world
did the biggest army in the world with box cutters
maybe the US should stock up on them instead

Originally posted by Chaser2000au
reply to post by Intelearthling

 

The mere fact that Obama made the decision in his own time shows that he is not a puppet to the military war machine or political body of the US senate.

I think it was a Job well done...................

I personally think that Obama took his time to make a decision to approve this mission wasn't to think about the feasibility of a successful mission but to think about how the outcome of this mission would impact his popularity. He had to give serious thought of what would be said if the mission had failed and it's impact on his administration.

Given the fact that he was totally against every policy that the Bush administration had put into place, he did give the go ahead to use a policy that he so much criticized during his campaign. This was done, IMHO, to gain favor in the eyes of those who stand in the middle with no direction or sense of direction.

The people who would've sharply criticized President Bush for the actions that was approved this weekend are the same people who applaud Obama for.

Now call it want you want but nothing is closer to being hypocritical than this.

However, I can commend Obama for ultimately making the right decision to go against what he believed in.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


The way the white house played this, it was the most harrowing, difficult decision Obama has had to make. The timeline is odd in my eyes but I really don't believe that he meditated on this decision for 16 hours. The white house has been playing the Keyser Soze game with OBL for over a decade and an opportunity arises for the US to finally nab the ultimate bogey man, someone who has been the poster child for terrorism for more than 2 presidencies and, yet, you need to think about it?

So, yeah, I find it odd that a man the whole nation is led to believe is the most wanted man on the planet, finally is in our sights and the president of the united states, knowing that capturing or killing this man will set him back on the path of re-election and reverse his negative image in an instant, takes 16 hours to contemplate getting him, dead or alive and then, during that long meditative process, he attends a correspondent's dinner.

Of course, I don't believe they killed him on Sunday. I think he died long ago. I think that the ridiculous photos that popped up on the net were from our gov't, testing the waters to see if the images would be debunked and, since every image was ripped to shreds, the white house decided it was in the best interest of everyone to not release a photo.

reply to post by Intelearthling


So what..
WTG MR.President!

It can't ever be the simplest explanation is the right one can it? Occam's Razor? I don't think the 16 hours had anything to with if, but when...the same article linked in the OP also states that the mission would have gone through the night before as it was planned to but there was heavy cloud cover. It could not possibly be that it did in fact take 16 hours to dot the i's and cross the t's...I mean it was only the most wanted man in the world who managed to hide for 10 years. What a fool making sure it went down as planned.

reply to post by Crakeur


I agree with most of what you said here, though a lot of it is fodder for much more debate off this topic.

My question is are there any discrepancies in the timeline I laid out (per the "official" facts), taking into account time zones and the like, in rebuttal to your assertions that the dinner was 1.) in the midst of the 16 hours and 2.) that he was too calm?

As to who dramaticized the 16 hours...meh who cares. We could trace it if we want, but dies that matter? if it was the White House issuing a simple statement that a journalist extrapolated from and embellished and readers took even further, so what. It was a hard decision to make. Sure.

But he knew it was coming long before the dinner and he didn't say anything contradictory to the official story. This is something they clearly have been planning for a while now (whether real or a psyop).

For all we know, give the cloud cover or whatever than may have delayed the mission to the next day, and given that there may only have been a 60%-80% certainty from the CIA and other intel agencies that OBL was even there, for all we know, he was told 16 hours before it actually went down that it had been delayed and had an additional 16 hours to think about it some more. Who knows. Does it really matter other than this is fodder for more political jabbing?

This wasn't a time critical mission (as far as we know and from all outward appearances) There was no nuke timer ticking down, no hostage situation, no imminent plans to move WMD. So, to that degree, we agree...what's the big deal with time anyway?

reply to post by Intelearthling


In the grand scheme of things 16 hours is quite immediate.

if you knew anything about the situation, you knew that there were civilian deaths on the line and the very good chance that a lot could go wrong. 16 hours, by all accords, is a good time with everything happening in the world. If you saw the pictures from the operation, Obama was clearly stressed about it all, and tired.

He did what must be done in war. Kill and don't care who gets in the way. Civilians did die.

reply to post by Intelearthling


I find it stunning that anyone thinks this is a long time or "wrong".

Originally posted by ShaunHatfield
reply to post by anon72

 

pssst... you have a black / democrat as your president... nanananananaananananaan Nothing you can do about it now..


I love it.. The man can't do anything right.. If he stormed in people would complain about that too... If he brought the body to America, people would have complained.... If they kept him alive and put him on trial, people would go flippin nutz!!!!!

What should he do? Get you some tea?

As I don't drink tea often I would prefer some ass............ I would genuinely believe he was white if he did that.
This Bin Laden thing is getting less believable by the day but on the bright side, it will be an awesome movie one day.

The fact is: He made the decision. Period.

Originally posted by Crakeur
So, yeah, I find it odd that a man the whole nation is led to believe is the most wanted man on the planet, finally is in our sights and the president of the united states, knowing that capturing or killing this man will set him back on the path of re-election and reverse his negative image in an instant, takes 16 hours to contemplate getting him, dead or alive and then, during that long meditative process, he attends a correspondent's dinner.

About the above bolded comments, in order:

Can you explain what is 'odd' about this in your view?

Do you think Obama's reelection should have been or was in his mind as a deciding factor? It sounds like you're thinking that if Obama wanted to be reelected, he should have given the order sooner and not slept on it. Am I reading that right?

What do you think he SHOULD have done differently? Not attended the dinner? Canceled the dinner? And where is it claimed that he was spending 16 hours in contemplation OR meditation?

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Obama made it sound like in his post-operation speech that upon confirmation of Osama's whereabouts, that he gave an immediate go ahead for the Special Warfare raid on the compound that housed Osama bin Laden.

What if, by chance, that during this time, Osama got word of the raid and fled once again. The American public has been waiting really more than ten years for this scumbag to be either captured or killed.

I know some will say that why should 16 hours matter when we waited this long. 16 hours is an extremely long time, especially when given the conditions and the magnitude of this mission.

We're very lucky that Osama, if in fact it was him, was killed in the raid. Lolly-dagging around with such an important decision as this, IMHO, is not the sign of a competent leader.



www.dailymail.co.uk (visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 4/5/11 by Intelearthling because: (no reason given)

Lolly gagging and actually thinking of the fate of the operation on thousands of levels are completely different. Seen blackhawk down? There is tremendous pressure to ensure the safety of our seal team and ensure their goal is achievable. Do you think Osama could have made a run for it? No. That compound was being watched nonstop.

I think nothing should be rushed and 16 hours is fine when making a critical decision like this.

We aren't talking about a Jack Bauer, world is going to blow up scenario.

reply to post by Intelearthling


i will expand on your point...if someone sneezes, or slips on the floor and a sniper has him in his sights and shoots the persons mission is DONE and over and im sure its not like the video games where you still hit the bastard and dont die...dont happen that way in real life

Originally posted by Golf66
It is impossible to have a debate or conversation without a common frame of reference - clearly you don't understand the Military Decision Making Process either in theory or in practice. Therefore any details would be wasted. You have all the details you are going to get from me and I have all those I am going to get.

So you have no clue either? Thanks for taking the time to tell me that.

Look-up some information of Staff Planning and the role of the Commander; perhaps what teams are needed for a successful raid or even the proper proceedure for securing and clearing an objective.

What specifically are you expecting me to learn?

Just say what you mean - the man can do no wrong in your eyes...check.

He can do plenty of wrong. This aint one of those things.

Anyone can see that by reading any of your adoring posts about Barry.

I know that instead of telling my friends and family that I adore them, I run around telling people they were not born in Kenya. Same thing, right?

If you want me to go through Obama's 16 hour process it's probably like....golf swing - getting better, selling some votes, which union to pay off, raise some more money to buy more votes by flying all over in AF1...oh yeah those SEAL's have a plan all laid out and ready to go. But I do have that book I'd rather like to read - let them wait a while longer. Nah -first I'll have a Kool and shoot some hoops with REV Jesse.

So you really have no clue. You have no idea what anyone was doing and when so you cannot tell me at what sooner point anything should have happened. Great. The point of your post then....?

For you since you seem slow - the mission was already planned, rehearsed and waiting for him to say go/no-go and had been for weeks if not months it had been back briefed and war gamed to death yet - the Mighty O just needs a little more time to outthink the experts...

They only rehearsed and made one plan? You sure about that? There was just one way to go in and Obama took 16 hours to decide yay or nay on that one plan? I guess I am having trouble finding your source on that as it is my understanding that having one single plan is begging for failure.

Just put down the cool aid for a minute get up off your knees for a few minutes and stop looking up at the man and see him for what he is...he's a boy playing at being king and the commoners are eating it up.

edit on 5/5/2011 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)

edit on 5/5/2011 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)

So you took the time to respond, not to make your point, but to personally insult me. Got it. Thanks for your help. So you think Obama should have acted at minute 1 but you have no idea why or how. Thanks a lot.

reply to post by anon72


You ask why the story is changing. Well, the story hasn't changed, only some details. The story - Navy SEALS raided a residential compound in Pakistan and killed Osama bin Ladin remains the same. However, there is a little something called "fog of war". It is a well-known factor among military people and historians. The initial reports of an incident rarely contain the truth, the whole truth, so help me god. People in stressful situations experience things differently. In the aftermath, when everyone is debriefed, the stress is off and the camera feeds examined, then and only then can the details be determined. Of course you won't believe me because it is just so much cooler to think that there is a conspiracy behind everything. Oh, and The Daily Mail sucks as a news source. It is less truthfull than the tabloid, News of the World, which sometimes actually gets a story right.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Politicians, like most people in the professional world, tend to act in a manner that will not only help them accomplish the job they're tasked with, also, help further their career. Do you not think that a politician, when making an important decision, doesn't wonder how it will impact their reelection bid or their approval rating?

I think that the process of contemplating this for 16 hours seems long. OBL was built into the ultimate bogey man and now he's yours for the taking and you want to think about it? Look at it this way;

1945 and the call comes in to the white house.

Mr. President, we've located Hitler and we feel we can take him down or capture him.

POTUS: I'm going to have to think about this.


I know we weren't at war with a nation and OBL wasn't committing the atrocities that Hitler was but, still, the way OBL was portrayed, by our government and our media, was such that the comparison is fair. Hell, we took him out on the same day Hitler offed himself. Coincidence?

OBL was living in this location for years. We'd been watching the compound for months.

Now, all of a sudden, they aren't sure if we should take him out? It needs to be thought about? For 16 hours?

Why were we in Afghanistan for all these years? We spent billions of dollars and lost thousands of lives in the hunt for this man and it takes 16 hours to decide how to proceed when we know he's there?

That, in and of itself is beyond strange to me.

Add to that the idea that capturing or killing him will make him seem a million times more effective than the prior administration, thus bettering his chances for a second term and it's the biggest no brainer ever.

And he took 16 hours to meditate on it.


And during that 16 hours he worked on a speech that was hysterical. Sure, he had help but he had to have been involved in the topics and areas he wanted to go after. Do you think he took 16 hours to meditate on whether or not he wanted to destroy Trump in that speech?

I don't think he should have cancelled anything. I simply don't buy that this all went down in the time frame they're giving us and, with each day we learn that more of their original story was fabricated and it is starting to look like they are reading the comments and altering their story to further suit the public.

It went from he died in a gunfight to there being very little gun fighting at all and now there's even the possibility that OBL surrendered and we killed him anyway.

It's all so very suspect.

Originally posted by Crakeur
Mr. President, we've located Hitler and we feel we can take him down or capture him.

All the confusing reports have all agreed that there was no comfirmation that Usama was there until the raid actually went down. There is a big difference between "we know where he is" and "we think he is in there with those women and children." You know that, right?

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by Crakeur
Mr. President, we've located Hitler and we feel we can take him down or capture him.

All the confusing reports have all agreed that there was no comfirmation that Usama was there until the raid actually went down. There is a big difference between "we know where he is" and "we think he is in there with those women and children." You know that, right?

On the contrary. The mission wouldn't have never happened especially without letting the Pakistani government have knowledge beforehand.

Intelligence had it right and they knew, not thought, that Osama was present in the compound. Sending combatants into an "off limits" area on hearsay was not the purpose of this mission. Getting proof of bin Ladens death the show the world was.

If there was any questions of whether it was Osama, drones would've been sent in.