Cigarette Smoking and Social Change

To put it bluntly:

We have far bigger fish to fry folks.
Smokers are the least of our worries.

reply to post by doctornamtab


"We" don't break them. It isn't something that is up to "us".

Which again brings us back around to moral pushing. If you didn't think what they did was bad, then humanity wouldn't need to be fixed, right? Seems to me that it would be easier to fix you, before fixing everyone else. Needs of the many, and all that...

How is that for a way to fix "our" problem? Get rid of everyone who has a problem with what others do. Once those are gone, then life would be great. Think, no one would dislike what others are doing. Which is the end result of a nirvana fallacy, such as the one presented in the OPost.

Work on yourself, leave me alone. (Follow that, if you want. I do, except my version states: Work on me, leave them alone.) Of course if them is insulting me, I have to work on it.

Originally posted by doctornamtab
Besides, no one has even answered the question.
I DONT CARE IF YOU SMOKE
...
But how can we change society for the better when people wont change themselves for the better?
Please answer the question and stop attacking me.

ok then, let me answer your question:

as I said in my first post, I do smoke,

but I also reclycle, I recycle everything that is recyclable.
Even make my own compost in my garden.

I never throw things on the street (not sigarettes eather)
and I punish my children for doing so.

I have an electronics store and every day I make an effort to inform people about green products that use less power and saves them money on the long run. Not because of the price but because of the greater good.

I don't drive a car, I ride my bike a lot (keeps me in shape) and I often take the bus when going to the city (no worries about parking space)

I donate clothing to the poor twice a year
I donate to animal charity once a year
I donate to the cancer foundation once a year
I donate to the red cross once a year

I'm doing a course to do voluneer work at a hot line call center and hope to be able to start that up if I pass my exams later this year

....

so you see, even as a smoker I AM working towards a better world, knowing that my effort alone is not enough, but I AM doing something.
Still, I don't see how it all has something to do with me smoking.

Reply to post by redmage

I smoked 2 figs while typing out my reply. Lol


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Reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

Meant cigs. Damn spell check. Soory.


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reply to post by GypsK


Sweet! Thanks! This is exactly what I'm looking for. Addiction has nothing to do with it. Excellent.

reply to post by doctornamtab


This is really a rhetorical question and does not have an answer, but by putting it in terms of smokers and non-smokers you opened up a can of it and lost the lid.

Also, apparently, you are not a real doctor, if you don't understand addiction.

Originally posted by doctornamtab
So many people are purposely killing themselves. Why?

It's a pretty slow death that takes years or decades to happen. In the meantime, cigarettes are basically used by young adults as a social signal that they are sexually active. They're old enough, and are capable of making bad decisions, and they're ready for sex.

With that kind of thing going on, it's pretty hard to get people not to start.

I don't get them.

They serve no purpose. They give ya health problems or kill you.

I wish that in 50 years time people laugh at us, because we smoked, and they think "What were they thinking? F!@#ing idiots!?"

But one can dream...

Originally posted by doctornamtab

I can understand why people smoke meth and crack and marijuana. But cigarettes? You don't even get high from it. Just back to normal, back to baseline.

Tobacco helps treat some symptoms of depression. So for a person who is even mildly depressed, tobacco may give them a feeling of relief and a little joy. Cardio exercise, like going for a run, can have a similar effect. If I am unable to keep my usual running schedule, I will get tobacco cravings.

If the tobacco is pure - and by this I mean not grown with radioactive fertilizer and cut with other toxic chemicals, it is not nearly as harmful as "they" would have you believe. With that said, the major brands of cigarettes are terrible and taste like chemicals to me.

I would like to say though, if you don't smoke now, don't start.

Edit: I didn't answer the main question.. something like "How can we get society to change for the better when people won't change themselves for the better." You can not change society, you can only change yourself. Don't worry about saving other people, worry about saving yourself. Do not settle for who you are, strive toward who you can become. This is the best way to help others, by helping yourself you will evoke positive influence upon those that surround you.

I smoke and i hate it, but sometimes i love it too...it sux! But i have a solution

Ban ciggarettes, and legalize everything else.

Ye think the world would go crazy if cigs were banned? A month of very pissed off people everywhere... lol

Though it would be easier to quit for everyone if there was no access to them, but then the Gov would be out on mad taxes too, so that will never happen anyways.

Smoking sucks though, everyone do yourself and your bank account a favor....don't ever start!

I am an ex alcoholic. I no longer drink at all, don't do drugs, and consider myself fortunate to only be addicted to cigarettes.

reply to post by doctornamtab


smokers are stopping the revolution? this is news, i did not know that.

look around you and you will see all sorts of human behavior that is self-destructive. over-eating, alcoholism, adultery, hard drug abuse, drunk driving, on and on it goes.

no one is perfect. we all have flaws. overweight people are very aware they are overweight. smokers pay for their vice in many ways. hard drug abusers lead a very difficult life. on and on it goes.

a cigarette gives a wise man time to think, and an idiot - something to put in his mouth.

From my experience, the worst thing about smokers is how defensive and nasty they get when you suggest that they shouldn't do it. I think it's worth just letting them smoke just to avoid having to deal with that meanness. Like trying to take a tennis ball away from a dog.

Also, what I find interesting is that no matter how loudly a smoker will try to justify what they're doing, they all at one time or another have tried to quit. There aren't too many when asked who will say, "I enjoy smoking so much, I actually have doubled my smoking over the last month, and plan to continue at that level forever."

reply to post by doctornamtab


It's amusing that you state there are a billion people who smoke worldwide, and I recently saw a statistic, brought to ATS, where the article stated a billion people will die from them. Or is that including the second-hand smoke?

This is the poster-child for the cancer industry. It has nothing to do with cell phones, car and factory exhaust, stress, depression, oppression, food additives, hormones in livestock, gmo's, or any other source ... nope, has to be from smoking. I've also read accounts of death certificates being written up, with smoking the cause of death, because the individual smoked many years earlier. It suggested the default reason is worked into the system for the sake of statistics.

what a waste of time this post is , must be a narc

I cant believe how worthless and stupid

this is ridiculous

Originally posted by Akragon
Ban cigarettes, and legalize everything else.

I've read a fair number of studies that suggest that if smokers quit, it doesn't take all that long for their bodies to repair the damage and harmful effects. So that makes me think that rather than making it illegal for people below a certain age to buy cigarettes, it might be a better idea to make it illegal for people, say, over the age of 40 to buy cigarettes. Smoke all you want when you're a kid, but not when you're older and don't have time to heal.

Why stop at smokers:
- Let's point the finger at people who abuse their body with alcohol / caffeine / salt

Do you see what I am getting at? Unless I am a Monk then I cannot condone smokers for body abuse as I along with others all have our vices.

Or maybe I should add my twopence worth against smokers as being hypocritical is grossly underrated.

reply to post by Blue Shift


I've read similar.

A report some years back stated that if you quit by age 30, there is no statistical difference between a life-long smoker, and one's self.

I smoke some of the more finer leafs out there *!*!

Originally posted by doctornamtab
Its estimated that one billion people smoke cigarettes worldwide.

Every day you see a cigarette butt in the street, on the sidewalk, in your front yard or outside your apartment complex. Everyday people put pointless smoke into their lungs, smoke which they know will kill them. Its been proven and yet, these people do not care for themselves and continue to smoke.

I can understand why people smoke meth and crack and marijuana. But cigarettes? You don't even get high from it. Just back to normal, back to baseline.

My friend paid 8 bucks for a pack of cigarettes the other day. Thats two gallons of gas.

Smokers dont respect themselves, their environment and often times, not even the people around them.

My point isn't to moralize about smoking cigarettes. You can do whatever you want as long as it isnt hurting anyone.

My point is: How can we possibly save the world when so many people don't even care about themselves? So many people are purposely killing themselves. Why? When so many people throw their cigarette butts, their BURNING GARBAGE, out a car window how can we reverse the toxic effects of corporate pollution? Which is a much more complex problem.

Change starts with you. If you smoke, how can you possibly respect and love yourself? If you don't respect yourself how can you respect the planet and the 7 billion other people on it?

Cigarettes breed apathy. Are the billion apathetic cigarette smokers holding us back from true revolution?

You're assuming people that don't care for their own health, or are addicted to smoking, don't care about the planet?

Not to toot my own horn but I've probably done more for helping the planet than 99.5% of people on here. Yet, I smoke. (I'm not saying I'm a better person than anyone, I've just been in a good position financially)

Smoking cigarettes has NOTHING to do with apathy, the notion in itself is absurd! The irony being that the platform in which you're broadcasting your arguments -- the internet, the computer, electricity, all these other technological and material things -- They cause much more harm than any smokers do. But worse still, they cause enormous harm to the planet and others. While smoking is clearly detrimental to ones own health, the effect on others doesn't rate mentioning.

The easy way to stop the burning effects of corporate pollution is to educate indoctrinated people like yourself and get you to focus on real issues, rather than attacking the working class population of the world and trying to cull individual freedom.

Harming yourself has nothing to do with being indifferent or unable to benefit or reduce harm to others. MOST people will put the collective over themselves. Although as an American that's probably a foreign concept to you.