What the Australian media is saying about the OBL killing ... may surprise you!, page 20


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reply posted on 5-5-2011 @ 11:44 PM by ExCommando
Originally posted by NightShift
reply to post by ExCommando


Summary "execution" of pirates is happening now. Your navy has been participating as part of the wider antipiracy task force in the Indian Ocean. It is more likely than not that your navy has taken the same kinds of actions as other fleets. Why is blood on your hands cleaner than it is on ours, especially if we are.talking citizen to citizen?

Please answer my question regarding celebration and World War 2. Did the people of Australia celebrate the surrender of the Japanese?

Islamic fundamentalist terrorism long precedes any American occupational war. Saudi based terrorism seeks to undermine American support of the Saudi royal family in order overthrow the Saudi Monarchy. Pakistani and Afghani fundamentalist movements have always been bred, funded and incited by Iranian and Pakistani government, going all the way back to 1979. Look up the birth of the Taliban, the meaning of the word itself, and the attack on the American embassy in Pakistan after Pakistani media reported that American and Israeli forces attacked a mosque in Mecca after the Iranian revolution.

I neither advocate nor condemn the assasination of OBL and the reaction of the crowds in nyc or dc. I did not celebrate; the death of OBL doesn't bring my buddies back. But to each his own, as grief is an individual burden. I do, however, think it is a mistake to think in absolutes when discussing the matters you brought up.

If you are a soldier, you have already committed to the acceptance that where peace and law fails, there is only violence. I too understand this unfortunate fact of life. But if you accept your right to kill when provoked, how can you stand and question my same right or that of my country?


I thought I had thoroughly replied to your comments.

I do not agree that a valid argument for "murder" is to rely on the actions of someone else.

I was a soldier, and combat is different to assassinating an unarmed man.

It is becoming clear that an unarmed man was executed - regardless of whom that man is - it sets a trend and leads a country on a slippery slope.

We are talking about the morals & ethics of a nation.

Please do not come back and say, "Well, OBL killed loads of people, so we deserved to kill him".

This is NOT about action and consequence - I'd dare this this isn't even about OBL - this is about drawing a line in the sand, and about exploring what the world view is of America, considering they are willing to assassinate and murder unarmed people in foreign countries.

This is also about the reaction of the people on the ground - albeit a small percentage of people - this is the view that is spread to the world; that the American people revel in murder.


reply posted on 5-5-2011 @ 11:57 PM by bluemirage5
reply to post by ExCommando


My friend.......the USA have the death penalty so what do you expect? And of those who have received the electric chair or lethal injection, how many have been later proven as innocent of the crime?



reply posted on 6-5-2011 @ 12:09 AM by NightShift
reply to post by ExCommando


You have not thoroughly answered my questions.

Did the Australian people celebrate the Japanese surrender ending World War 2? This is not an accusation I am throwing at you. I want you to clarify where you draw the line regarding the "celebration of death." I will not continue to discuss this with you unless you are willing to back your moral condemnation of the American people by first examining the behavior of your own people.

You also make the claim that combat is different, perhaps more honorable, than assasination because troops are armed and prepared to fight one another. As a soldier, did you ever participate in or support an artillary or bombing action? Is it safe to assume that the targets of such actions are not physically in possession of their weapon or sufficiently aware they are under imminent threat? Is this still combat then? If so, why? Because they are.uniformed soldiers? Are any opposition soldiers uniformed in Afghanistan?

Again, there are no.absolutes in war. What is the moral difference.between sniping a uniformed enemy general sitting unarmed at his unit hq during a declared war, and tracking and shooting the leader of a terrorist organization with a proven rap sheet who has promised to kill again?

There is the key. If you answer.nothing else, answer this: was OBL an inactive or surrendered combatant, or was he an active, self declared threat?


reply posted on 6-5-2011 @ 12:16 AM by bluemirage5
reply to post by NightShift


How the hell can you compare OBL to WW1 or even WW2 ??????


reply posted on 6-5-2011 @ 12:38 AM by Redevilfan09
Originally posted by NightShift
reply to post by ExCommando


Did the Australian people celebrate the Japanese surrender ending World War 2? This is not an accusation I am throwing at you. I want you to clarify where you draw the line regarding the "celebration of death." I will not continue to discuss this with you unless you are willing to back your moral condemnation of the American people by first examining the behavior of your own people.


Along with the rest of the world in WW2, I believe there would of been celebrations all over the world. WW2 was not about a terrorist network, but a country who persecuted innocent people. Of course people will celebrate the end of histories biggest dictator. How can you compare a war like that in the first place with what has happened in the past week, or even the last decade? Your people are celebrating the death of one person. Your country has not defeated terrorism, even though it may feel that way taking out the most wanted in your country.
edit on 6-5-2011 by Redevilfan09 because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 6-5-2011 @ 12:44 AM by NightShift
reply to post by bluemirage5


Its an exercise. You tell me. How are the celebrations following the end of World War 2 and the assassination of OBL different?

We did these kinds of exercises all the time.in school. The result are never as straightforward as people initially think. At the end you find yourself in a moral quandary no matter what you initially thought.....which is the point am trying to make.

i respect the opinions being discussed....hell, part of me agrees with what commando is trying to point out. but it is an oversimplification of a tremendously complex event....which is dangerous.

as i said, i neither advocate nor condemn what happened. we are on terra incognita and only time.can judge what just happened. i urge people to observe more than they judge, thats all. when its time for me to vote.......then i will make my judgement.

time for bed. again, respect and cheers.


reply posted on 6-5-2011 @ 12:53 AM by NightShift
reply to post by Redevilfan09


we all celebrated the surrender of the japanese as well, whom we had just nuked into oblivion.

OBL was celebrated as one man. Hiroshima, Nagasaki....entire cities. an entire nation.

did we celebrate the deaths, or was it the end of a threat?

i think it has more to do with the end.of a threat....real or percieved.

like it or not, humans personify threats. OBL was the "face" of 9/11 for many americans.


reply posted on 6-5-2011 @ 01:14 AM by Redevilfan09
reply to post by NightShift


Yeah fair enough, if you look at it that way I understand where your coming from, but still the war on terror has not been won, and Osama should not represent the actions of 9/11, he was not in the planes whether he funded them or not. I'm sure there will be others willing to carry out further attacks in the future aswell, maybe on a much larger scale.

Celebrating something that has not been won is ridiculous also, unlike WW2 when yous obliterated Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Japanese had no choice but to surrender, they were not a threat anymore and Germanys fate also unfolded after that aswell. In this case, its not a country, but a group of people who at the best of times are very hard to find, and unfortunetly, they are based in many countries and fly under the radar. The war on terror is not going to end quickly. One person does not make a difference.

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reply posted on 6-5-2011 @ 04:09 AM by JerryB08
reply to post by ExCommando


Someone from Australia is talking about people from The United States? Are you aware that today your country's national language would be Japanese if the United States didn't save your butt's? Your country was the next target. Do you also know that Australia was originally a British Prison Island and all your early ancestors are British Criminals? I guess you wouldn't understand because your country has never had to jet liners highjacked and flown into two large civilian sky scrapers killing est 4000 unarmed civilians.

No Offense mate
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reply posted on 6-5-2011 @ 04:50 AM by JerryB08
reply to post by ExCommando


Well If that's the worlds perception of America that we are murders. Because we planted the man. I am completely okay with that. I also have deployed to Afghanistan with MARSOC. on 3 tours. Where was your unit based?

If you haven't learned this already. I think you'll find Americans don't really care what people from other countries think. It's hard for me to believe that you even know where Afghanistan is on a map. If you actually had ever been on a Direct Action OP I suspect you would know better to believe what's being released to the media. You most certainly would also be familiar with DEV GRU. The men in that Unit are top notch. And you certainly would not be calling a man a civilian that had at least twice the amount of combat experience as you.

The worlds most wanted man for the past twenty years was unarmed and didn't have his Khyber Pass AK that's in almost every picture of him any where near him. Really why do I find that hard to believe lol I would imagine that rifle is now an extreamly valuable trophy on some body's wall.

As a side note I think American's are sick of insuring our allies securities and then being criticized for doing it..If i may suggest. Maybe you should be spending your time learning Chinese and saving up to buy a WOK.


reply posted on 6-5-2011 @ 07:33 AM by moleskin
To be honest... the representation of Americans in this thread is putting one very poor stereotype on the rest of your people. If American people really don't care about the rest of the world, then are happy if the rest of the world starting to not give a dam about the American People?

In fact cutting all diplomatic and financial ties with your country might actually improve relations across the rest of world considerably, being as its your countries financial greed, mismanagement and warmongering which has helped turn the global economy into the biggest debt that has ever existed.

Yeah other countries are far from perfect, but I think I speak on behalf of other non-americans when I say we are open to criticism, we are open to being wrong, and as such, we are open to improvement.

Luckily I can appreciate that a large number of Americans realize there is a big wide world out there, of which they are a part of. As for the person who commented on the convict history of Australia... sorry to burst your bubble, but the convict influx is only a small part of the migration policy which took place. Most were petty crooks who got caught stealing loaves of bread, and were transported to Australia as they needed cheap labour to get the country up and running... nowadays everything is sent to China, and America is most probably the biggest exporter - principally it's no different, in fact at least the criminals in a lot of cases were given a new life, exporting to China only serves to continue to destroy your economy.

Now I don't want to get into American bashing, far from it - I have met many great Americans, and this site is full of them. But perhaps you need to remember a few things, America, like Australia, is a country created out of immigration. Both of the indigenous peoples of our countries have been raped, murdered and driven to the point of oblivion when white men decided it was time for some new real estate. Regardless of what generation American/Australian anyone claims to be, they will never be of original descent. Those are the people who suffered the most crimes against humanity and suffered terrorism like never before.

Australia and America share many parallels, more so than is shared with the UK or other allies. Yes Australia may be small (population) and our support in such wars might not be as big as American troops - but it was never wars the Australians ever started, we came to support our allies, regardless of numbers or equipment, the support is there none the less.

Now we could continue down the road of bashing American/Australians - but at the end of the day, its governments who make decisions that affect both countries. When you get down to the core I would argue the average American and Australian share the same values, just one of the countries doesn't have an overtly aggressive foreign policy without the needed transparency, and of course one of them has free health care!
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reply posted on 6-5-2011 @ 08:11 AM by JerryB08
reply to post by deenuu


Here is a little History lession for you. This entire Terrorism tactic is supposed to be a fight for the Palestinian people. Because their homeland was taken from them to give the Jews back their country. The reason this happened I am told is because of the Jews being mass murdered by Germany, Yet another European War of conquest that the American military had to save your Commonwealth from. Now whom do you think gave that land away? Well the British Common Wealth of course. It was their occupied territory and which they like to call colony's in 1948. This is all fact look it up.

How many battles do we have to fight for your commonwealth? All we're doing is cleaning up your mess again and we pay to do too? I can assure those day's are over. It is amazing to me that anybody would have the nerve to call the United States Imperialistic. If you'll recall we had to kick the Empires Arse twice to get our own freedom. The British Empire and Colonial East India trading company is responsible for murdering more people than Hitler.

It seems a little hypocritical to me that that History's largest conqueror, (The British Common Wealth) in modern history is questioning America after the worlds most sought after mass murder was killed in a Special Forces Operation in a former British Colony that is double dealing taking our money and harboring terrorists. And that the information your going by is propaganda comming from this double dealing "ally" And now the facts do come out that he was armed they have video and the firearms to proof it. The US Military doesn't murder people. If soldiers get out of line they are dealt with severely via a military court marshall. The United States doesn't occupy countries. If the leaders decide to go to combat. We stomp the countries military then we have them elect their own leaders then rebuild the country and leave them be. And then If they ever need help we drop everything no matter the condition of our own economy or national debt and at our expense help them in any way we can. Ask the Japanese..... So excuse me if I seem irritated if arrogant people from little islands that US troops died defending think for a second that their opinions or the worlds for that matter is even remotely relevant to the American People.

When I heard that man was killed. I felt no joy and I didn't celebrate. But I was relieved. The man was driven to kill our civilians and our children and make no mistake yours too. Don't think for a second they don't recall who turned over their peoples land and religious land marks to their most hated enemy. (why everyone hates the Jews is beyond me) Your judging a population based on a bunch of kids, Kids that may in fact no longer have a parent because of the man that was killed. But regardless kids that don't have a clue of the real world. Ive seen many examples of your youths setting not such a great example.
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