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Is Western Media Suffering a Crisis of Credibility ?

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posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 03:48 AM
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We now have 24 hour coverage of the war in Iraq but are we better imformed?

I am not saying Iraqi TV ,with it's constant images from Saddam Husseins life,is a mine of imformation but I do worry about the effect the constant reporting of Pentagon Propaganda as truth will have,not only on the International and Domestic audience during this war,but also in the long term.
There has been an understandable bias in the reporting,even on the BBC,examples include,refering to civilian casualties in Baghdad as "alledged casualties".Making it clear every time a journalist in Baghdad reports that he/she is restricted in movements and monitored even though Iraqi officials have not censored any reports and journalists imbedded in Allied areas are under exactly the same restrictions.Questioning the number of Casualties listed by the Iraqis even though after the first night of "Shock and Awe" the Iraqis announced only 3 deaths which is a compliment to Allied targetting and surely not an exageration,Drawing the conclusion that because Iraqi Soldiers have gas masks the Iraqis are preparing a Chemical attack,Don't our troops have the same equipment.These as I say are minor and to a degree understandable examples of bias.
What I believe is damaging are the exagerated or just plain false reports,many emanating from the Pentagon,which are proven as lies within days or even hours.

I would like to list some examples.

1/Uum Qasr which was reported on the first day by Donald Rumsfeld to have been taken but turned out to be very much not taken.It is only now in Allied hands.

2/To save space add every town on the road to Baghdad.Karbala,Najaf,Nasiriya.All have been said by the Pentagon to have been taken at some time.

3/ 2 Chemical Plants Found.This has been proven to be false.

4/PoW's.The Pentagon issued an imediate denial that any US Servicemen had been taken prisoner.Within 2 hours they were on TV.

5/Apache Helicopter.Again imediately denied yet on TV within the hour.

6/Uprising in Basra.Anounced last night yet the only Journalist in Basra ,from Al Jazeera,Reports even now that there is no sign of this "Uprising".This is backed up with film.Incidently he also claims Cluster Bombs have been used and you can see the bomblets in the streets of Basra in the film.

7/Announcing the deaths or surrender of every Iraqi Political or Military Leader.

8/The complete surrender of the Iraqi 51st Division.

I now take no notice of what the Pentagon says and I wonder how long it will be before even loyal Americans realise that a catagorical denial from the Pentagon is worthless.

These lies didn't just start when the war did ,it appears we have been subject to exageration in the run up to convince us that this war was justified and the rest of the world was wrong.Where are the Cheering Crowds pleased at liberation and Chemical Weapons?

William and Netchicken both have said that Al Jazeera have now an English translation Website.Though I've tried and tried I can't get on.I don't think it is foolish to question if the reason for this is just a simple Server Problem.Is it only in the UK/USA ?

Nobody, in the UK at least,were under any illusion that this would not be without its setbacks.What is disapointing is raised expectations being shattered.It says something when westerners would rather get their imformation from Al Jazeera than the BBC because it appears to have better Journalistic Integrity.For Brits Channel 4 offers the best reporting.

If we are in the right then the truth is a weapon we can use.Only if we are in the wrong would we lie about things to garner popularity not just to protect our troops.





[Edited on 26-3-2003 by John bull 1]




posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 03:58 AM
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the first casualty in war is the truth. I will admit though I can note an incredible difference from the German news, to BBC and to CNN. I watch all three of them to try and get a fair report, and to tell you the truth, I dont know who to believe. Most of the reporting that is going on is as different as night and day.



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 04:04 AM
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My goodness, I could go on about this subject for years, though I'm sure the mods would not like that one bit. However, I will say this:

American media has always been corrupt. Though, in fairness, so has Britain. I think it was, at first, because sensationalizing the news not only helps fill up needlessly long reports (And make those 24-7 news channels seem worthwhile) but has a tabloid effect on it's audience.

People, especially westerners, really do not like to hear the truth. They want everything to be presented to them in the correct context, with the proper spin, or else they will not watch it. Do not believe me? Then ask yourself why Fox News is the highest rated news channel on American T.V. Their reporting is shaky at best, and their Republican slant, coupled with the fact that they hired disgraced newshound Geraldo Rivera only serves to prove my point.

Although now, I think things are even worse, since Bush's administration has successfully duped a large portion of Americans into believing this war is both justified and patriotic. Not to mention that the Wolfowitz Cabal: www.amconmag.com...? have made good on their promise to change Americans into Conservative thinkers. If you want an example of how T.V. networks are controlling the way America thinks, do me a favor and read this link here:

www.allyourtv.com...



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 04:09 AM
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Most Americans have been raised to never question what they have been told... Would your govt lie to YOU?



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 04:18 AM
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Lie, that is not what they call it.

Forget to tell the truth, that sounds better to them.

Case in point: Most Americans assume that the war in Afghanistan was a cakewalk. They think it was a simple exercise in carpet bombing, and we set up lawn chairs and sipped martinis in the sun.

Sadly, this was not the case. Did you know we continue to lose 5 servicemen a day over there? That everyday in Afghanistan, terrorists and deposed warlords perform suicide bombings and Grenade attacks on our remote command posts? rense.com reported the death toll at around 1500 so far. Still, not much, but most Americans are led to believe that no casualties were received at all. (At least those I talk to)

What about this story here:
www.libertyforum.org...


[Edited on 26-3-2003 by Kai-Raega]


dom

posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 04:31 AM
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I've been noticing the same BBC bias. And the BBC are by far the most liberal of the news channel's that I've seen right now. They swept the Saturday demo right under the carpet, mis-reported numbers for the majority of Saturday, and basically haven't bothered to analyse what's going on properly. They jump on every rumour that's pro-coalition, don't report anything that isn't, and have generally towed the government line.

That said, they still have vague bits of "good" news, where they question things, but it's the overwhelming minority of their reporting right now.

Notice also that the Guardian newspaper is now right behind the war, no anti-war stories since the war started. Time to start buying the Independent I guess...

As far as the American media goes... pah... don't get me started.



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 05:30 AM
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Kai-Raega had me going there for a minute, fact of the matter is the US has never denied its support of Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein during the 80s. Not sure where you are getting your information but I am not going to call you a liar.


Your most recent link goes nowhere the second most recent is about Phil Donahue's ratings (I see no relevance). And the third sounds like a presentation by a special interest group (boring)

Lysergic would yours lie to you?

John this is the first time in human history that a war has been televised in the same way as this one has. Live programming is actually the most difficult format out there specifically because is the fact that it is in real time and no one on the planet is perfect.

To claim that these issues are the result of lies is obtuse. And might I also add an exaggeration under
the circumstances.



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 06:01 AM
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I stand by what I have written.

The Pentagon has always been in a position to answer any Journalists enquiries on any situation with the prefix "Unconfirmed Reports Suggest".Instead they have shown an eagerness to give official credence to battle field rumour in their press conferences.The US Defence Secretary is the most guilty of this.
Given time they could confirm any report instead advantageous rumour has been encouraged and in the case of Saddams' Death and Mass Surrenders probably started by the Pentagon.
If you can get away with it,then fine.That,afterall,is war.But the UK/USA are not getting away with it.They are being shown up as propagandists and there is a danger people will turn away from Western imformation sources and look to Al Jazeera for news of what is really happenning on the ground.If this happens then an oportunity may be lost to put across our view to the rest of the world.



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 06:22 AM
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I can respect that statement John



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 06:35 AM
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Originally posted by Toltecthe second most recent is about Phil Donahue's ratings (I see no relevance).


I'll admit, that is my fault. I expected you to be able to read the post in context. The post was in response to the main title, and in it, I cited Donahue's firing on the basis of a new conservative movement in cable news as a prime example.

I am sorry if I spoke over your head, I will not make that mistake again.

And although the U.S. does not deny involvement with Saddam and Bin Laden, they most certainly do not outwardly admit it either.

I believe that withholding the truth is remarkably similar to lying. Though I will save the semantics lesson for later.


[Edited on 26-3-2003 by Kai-Raega]


AF1

posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 06:51 AM
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I understand what your saying and I agree. I can't stand to watch CNN. Unfortunately it's the only news station my campus offers. I find my only source of information is the internet, but how much of that can you believe. You can realize that every news source is biased in some way and will put a spin on it. I find the best way is to come to a conclusion after searching for as many sources as you can.

Point in case, the downing of the Apache. The US says it wasn't shot down, yet Al-Jazeera puts a picture up saying that a peasant with a bolt-action rifle shot it down. Well, we do know it was shot down, yet from what I know of Apache Helicopters I know that it wasn't shot down by this peasant. Both sides are guilty of the propaganda war.

I also don't understand why their has to be a pentagon briefing everyday, to tell us "how great the war is going." I wasn't expecting this war to go smoothly, and I think it's an insult of the government to think that everyone is naive enough to tell them what they want to hear. Unfortunately most Americans are indeed ignorant, and will believe what they are told.

Think For Yourself,
Question Authority.



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 07:05 AM
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That is a fair response AF1.You're right both sides are guilty of propaganda.The two main examples that come to mind are,

1/The Apache,the peasant,and the rifle.

2/That all Iraqi PoW's are civilians pretending to be soldiers.

But both of these are just so silly that they are easily dismissed.
On Uum Qasr,Basra,Najaf,Nasiriya,Casualties Iraq seems to be telling the truth.
I honestly believe that it was because the USA accused Iraq of lying about US PoW's that they were shown on TV.
The difference for me is that the Iraqis are telling silly lies and the US/UK are telling big whopping lies.
Just my opinion.



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 07:06 AM
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Again with insults Kia-Reaga lets understand each other you have no idea who I am and neither do I you. That you lack the ability to present your self respectfully does though establish in my mind that you really have very little education.

Then you admit to lying



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 07:20 AM
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Originally posted by Toltec
Again with insults Kia-Reaga lets understand each other you have no idea who I am and neither do I you. That you lack the ability to present your self respectfully does though establish in my mind that you really have very little education.

Then you admit to lying



Once again, you not only accuse me of insulting you, but you attempt to place words in my mouth. Did I admit to lying? Perhaps I phrased the words in such a way that you were unable to properly digest them. For that, I am sorry. If you look back at my previous post, you will see that I did not admit to lying, I instead admitted that I was at fault for phrasing my statement in such a way as to confuse you. Was it done on purpose? Not really, though I should not expect everyone to understand me. Such is the weakness of the internet. Without face-to-face contact, much is lost in the words you type.

Though, this still leaves us with one simple truth: You did not debunk my claim. Neither did the two previous posters, though in fairness, their aim was to voice a separate opinion on the matter.

As for Education, I suppose that is another "Point of view" argument. I am a professor for a rather prestigious school, and I am quite proud of the work I do. I attempt to prepare the soft young minds in my class for the harsh world they will encounter after graduation. I am by no means the world's most renowned or revered historian, nor am I a member of Mensa.

Though I think I do just fine, and I will ignore your shameful attack on my intellect. It is both unprofessional and rude.


[Edited on 26-3-2003 by Kai-Raega]



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 07:26 AM
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Complete objectivity is impossible. The military, in times of war, will lie through the teeth, especially to the press. This is to be expected. If you want the truth, most know you will have to examine various news source, biased on both sides, and then discern the truth for yourself.



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 07:34 AM
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....has been corrupt, in it's most heinous current form, ever since the presidential debates leading up to the 2000 election. How else do you justify FoxNews & all the Murdoch media outlets calling Bush the 'winner' when all he supplied was empty rhetoric void of an real world pragmatism or application or functioning policy?
Scan through the sheer avoidance of numbers over his economic policies or social burdens American are suffering under....these are not covered in any thing approacing depth in most daily papers or news shows.....but slick graphics covering 'TERROR' or 'WAR' are covered to overkill.
A breathless reporter, with cameras fixed on the pyrotechnics in the sky ( not the residential buildings being leveled on the ground), is all we are going to get in the way of reporting.
That every splice of film and text gets cleared through a military filter is just lost on people. As is the fact that 'Rex Champion - War Correspondant' will do nothing to upset the apple cart, getting him booted from being in the 'action' or fed choice tidbits of trivia to regurgitate to the mindless masses back home.



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 07:58 AM
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U.S. Patriot, you amuse me...much like the ape that flings it's own poo against the cage while onlookers laugh and place their noses to the glass. All you do is put up a line of smiley faces while dom sarcastically rips you to shreds and I attempt to debate you.

I dare you, if you are an intelligent man, disprove my statements. I will then consider you something more then the simian you appear to be.


Sounds real professional




And although the U.S. does not deny involvement with Saddam and Bin Laden, they most certainly do not outwardly admit it either.


I hope you are not teaching your children this because it is absolutely false.

My background includes education as well, though in my lifetime I have prided myself in maintain a resume. Which offers a background, which is as diverse as, is possible given my formal education. I am also very proud of the work I have done, which for the record includes the role of Principal. Also a very prestigious school in this country. Who's primary function was to address the needs of adolescents which were considered impossible to work with by various agencies throughout this country. On the average each child had been charged with two counts of 1st degree murder (mind you in respect to this specific issue they had no convictions).


I do not see the point of responding to a claim that a particular country media is corrupt, that is no different than claims that a particular religion is corrupt or for that matter a particular race is corrupt. In and of itself the statement is simple discrimination. It is a generalization who function lack any real credence with respect to the human condition this that good and or bad can be found in any institution.

And that is my response.



Grazok I completly agree



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by Toltec
My background includes education as well, though in my lifetime I have prided myself in maintain a resume. Which offers a background, which is as diverse as, is possible given my formal education. I am also very proud of the work I have done, which for the record includes the role of Principal. Also a very prestigious school in this country. Who's primary function was to address the needs of adolescents which were considered impossible to work with by various agencies throughout this country. On the average each child had been charged with two counts of 1st degree murder (mind you in respect to this specific issue they had no convictions).


I do not see the point of responding to a claim that a particular country media is corrupt, that is no different than claims that a particular religion is corrupt or for that matter a particular race is corrupt. In and of itself the statement is simple discrimination. It is a generalization who function lack any real credence with respect to the human condition this that good and or bad can be found in any institution.

And that is my response.


You should be proud of the work you do, and I too, as a fellow educator, am very proud of what you have chosen to do. For that, you have my utmost respect.

However, I must stress that it is unprofessional to simply call statements "False" without telling anyone why, such as this:


I hope you are not teaching your children this because it is absolutely false.


You must back these statements up with proof. Failing to do so invalidates your point of view and altogether negates your argument. I did also notice a few mistakes in your post, such as this:


It is a generalization who function lack any real credence


You should have wrote, "Whose function", not "who function."

Speaking of teaching, my class has begun, and my students are beginning to filter in. I hope you do well in all of your endeavors.



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 08:09 AM
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Oh please!

It's not just "American Media" with issues of "credibility", any media outlet of any nation will have bias toward their own country/system/philosophy.

However...

The "American Media" is different, it's a for-profit entertainment entity, not a news entity (especially when looking at the broadcast media). Anyone expecting to be informed should look elsewhere. If you want to be entertained by seeing network pretty-boys slammed by a sandstorm in Iraq, then tune-in.

So... how can an entity focused on entertainment have any news credibility?


dom

posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 08:14 AM
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In which case the US media should be honest and call itself entertainment.

"Welcome to the 9 o'clock, possibly based on current events, but probably not, entertainment."

I'm afraid that news organisations have a responsibility to tell the truth. Their job is not *just* entertainment, it should also be ethical reporting.

Case in point... the BBC has rediscovered it's obligations 7 days into the war... and this is their latest article all about why the US shouldn't complain too loudly about the treatment of US POW's...

news.bbc.co.uk...




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