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Islam Must Denounce Osama!

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posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:10 AM
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The following is a quote from a FoxNews.com article located HERE.



"A U.S. official told Fox News that while a photo of bin Laden would help prove his death to skeptics, there is a reluctance to take any step that would feed the narrative that he was in any way a "martyr." Plus the White House is being careful not to inflame Islamic sentiment by showing graphic images of the body."


Here is my question (or argument) and reason for the title of this thread. The "good" Muslims claim (and I have to believe them) that Osama and his criminals don't represent them or their religion. So that (in my opinion) means we have no reason to be "careful not to inflame Islamic sentiment" as stated in the article above. Now...I was raised Catholic (I'm not anymore) and if someone claiming to represent my religion was murdering people in the name of my religion, and I truly believe that their words and actions don't represent me or my religion...I would want my religious leaders to denounce them, and excommunicate them from our religion.

So my question is...why hasn't Bin Laden and all his "friends" been kicked out of Islam by their "good" religious leaders? And if kicked out...why would any "good" Muslim care if we released images of them, or care if we did anything inappropriate with regard to them, if they don't represent and aren't part of their religion?

I am not claiming that the "good" Muslims are being untruthful, but just think how far it would go with the US if all terrorists were excommunicated from Islam (and any other religion they claim to represent). And...if they don't represent their religion...if they are hurting the reputation of their religion...if they are simply evil, why haven't they already been kicked out and ostracized?

Final comment...I know very little about Islam and am not "playing" a game here to bait anyone. I just don't understand why this hasn't already been done, if what "good" Muslims are saying is true.




posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:20 AM
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That is a very good question. I have been wondering that myself for several years.

I have noticed, however, that I have seen more muslims on the MSM denouncing Osama and terrorism today than I have in the last 10 years.

I can't believe that they were all living in fear of retaliation from OBL but it seems to me that the dam has been breached and people are coming forward.



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:26 AM
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I as a Muslim want to see the body. I mean, you can find thousands of videos on YouTube showing graphic footage of martyrs from Chechnya for example?

@ Your last question:

How can you exclude some people with guns from a religion? They can do what ever they want... they control everything there.. the teachings, the Imams, everything...

I wouldn't wonder if they (Taliban) use fake Qur'ans to brainwash the people there. Note: People in Afghanistan and Pakistan do not speak Arabic, they speak their own languages, and the Qur'an is in Arabic. So it could also be that they only learn to read it. (just like here in Germany for example, you only learn to read Arabic)
And then the Talibanis tell them lies so they blow themselves up...

As you see I have no idea, really... all I can say is that Islam has certain (and I think very correct) rules like:

- only defend yourselves, never ever attack first
- do not kill woman, children and old people (innocient people)
- treat war prisoners with respect
- do not kill out of anger

so, yeah, we do not consider them as righteous Muslims..



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:28 AM
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Agreed...we hear quite a bit of Islamic people saying Osama is bad or evil. But the religion...representing their "God", should therefore throw them out. And after thinking about this even more, the Catholic religion (my former religion) should do the same with pedophile Priests (if they haven't).



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:32 AM
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Since Osama has never been proven quilty of anything
why should the muslims disown him?
On the US's say so
oh boy can I get you a deal on a bridge!

the PTB has installed and controled and fostered the extremist christians and muslims because they want all the peeps to just go to war and die so they can have your lunch

all this BS about religion is just that
BS



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by Kemal
 


I understand what you are saying. But if any people claiming to represent a religion and claiming their actions support their religion (or is sanctioned by their religion and their "God"), that kill in the name of that religion, etc. If what they say and do is anti-"their religion"...why doesn't their religion throw them out?



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by Danbones
 


So are you saying that Osama never took credit for 9/11? I thought I heard/saw otherwise. Or are you suggesting that the Islamic world doesn't believe he did it?



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by WeAreAWAKE
 


They've been denouncing him for years, they will continue to denouce him, the news will silence them as it always has done whenever the Muslim majority denouces terrorism.



“Few will mourn the reported death of Osama bin Laden, least of all Muslims. Many Muslims will reflect on the ten years that have passed in which our faith and our community have been seen through the prism of terrorism and security. The Muslim Council of Britain has consistently stood firm against terrorism and violence, and will continue to do so. His extremism has been responsible for the deaths of many people, including many Muslims around the world. The actions of his movement which have no basis in the teachings of Islam have led to the pursuit of unjust wars and untold suffering. Today our thoughts must be with the families of all those who suffered in the terrorist attacks around the world as well as of thousands of innocent lives lost in the wars against terrorism. It is unfortunate that his assassination has deprived them of the opportunity to see him brought to justice in the court of law. Al-Qaeda’s ability to sow discord and mistrust between Muslims and others has caused untold damage. We must restore our belief in human dignity and peace by ensuring that we stand firm against all forms of hatred, injustices and violence.”


This is from the Muslim council of Britain, I can find you hundreds of other Muslim organisations denouncing terrorism and violence if you would like me to.

edit to add: A person cannot be 'kicked out' of Islam because Islam has no clergy. There is no religious hierarchy in Islam, the religion is a relationship between the individual and his devotion to God. Bin Laden has been denounced time and time again as a terrorist and as evil and has been accused of twisting Islam and not following the religion repeatedly by the Muslim community, what more can they do? It's not their fault AQ exist.
edit on 3-5-2011 by lifeissacred because: edit to add



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by lifeissacred
 


Again...then why not remove them from the religion? Why not kick them out if they are doing evil in the eyes of the religion? Words are cheap. Actions speak volumes. Kick them out of your religion if they don't represent it in their words and actions. Again...this goes for all religions.



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:46 AM
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Religion isn't like a private club. You can't tear up their membership card and take back the keys to the clubhouse. The only thing that the "religion" can do is have prominent members publicly denounce them and their actions. These public denouncements have not been well publicized or coordinated.

It's kind of like political party affiliation, anyone can say they belong to any party, it doesn't mean they represent that party.



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by WeAreAWAKE
 


See my editted reply, they cannot 'kick him out' of the religion because Islam has no clergy or hierarchy. The entire religion is based upon a personal relationship with God. There have been fatwas against terrorism, almost all Muslims consistently denounce terrorism and are just as opposed to the actions of AQ as we are.



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:48 AM
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No.

Islam must renounce the following:
- Jihad
- Sharia
- The death penalty for apostates



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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Islam must?

How does that work?
Does Christianity have to denounce pedophillia and spousal abuse?
Should gravity denounce falling deaths?

How does a religion, belief system, idea, concept denounce anything?



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:52 AM
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reply to post by lifeissacred
 


Just caught your edit. In the Catholic religion, a person can be made a Saint and kicked out of the religion. As I said...I don't know a whole lot about Islam so I'll take your word for it that there is no such "power" within their religion to do so. But that is even scarier. How can any "group" exist, support, represent and stand by their values, if every individual can decide for themselves what that "group" believes? Are you suggesting that is just a failing of the Islamic religion in that it can't police itself? I understand that the Catholic religion can excommunicate a person, and that person can continue to call themselves "Catholic". But they are no longer part of the church...or "group".



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by Sinnthia
 


"Must" is an opinion...obviously. And a "group" that believes something can usually remove people from that "group" if the actions and words of an individual break their rules, laws and/or beliefs.



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by WeAreAWAKE
Here is my question (or argument) and reason for the title of this thread. The "good" Muslims claim (and I have to believe them) that Osama and his criminals don't represent them or their religion. So that (in my opinion) means we have no reason to be "careful not to inflame Islamic sentiment" as stated in the article above. Now...I was raised Catholic (I'm not anymore) and if someone claiming to represent my religion was murdering people in the name of my religion, and I truly believe that their words and actions don't represent me or my religion...I would want my religious leaders to denounce them, and excommunicate them from our religion.

So my question is...why hasn't Bin Laden and all his "friends" been kicked out of Islam by their "good" religious leaders? And if kicked out...why would any "good" Muslim care if we released images of them, or care if we did anything inappropriate with regard to them, if they don't represent and aren't part of their religion?


Ok help me out here. Who exactly is supposed to kick him out?
What are they going to kick him out of?
How do you kick someone out of whatever you are going to answer that with?

We had a child rape scandal at a church here. The other priests in the church indeed denounced the convicted priest. Did they come to your house and denounce him to you? No. I do not understand what it is you expect. Every Muslim on the planet to come and tell you personally they do not like Osama? Please explain this all to me.


I am not claiming that the "good" Muslims are being untruthful, but just think how far it would go with the US if all terrorists were excommunicated from Islam (and any other religion they claim to represent). And...if they don't represent their religion...if they are hurting the reputation of their religion...if they are simply evil, why haven't they already been kicked out and ostracized?


"Excomunicated" by whom? Islam is not like the Vatican. Seriously, explain the kicking out to me, please?


Final comment...I know very little about Islam and am not "playing" a game here to bait anyone. I just don't understand why this hasn't already been done, if what "good" Muslims are saying is true.


Tell you what. If you can make it make sense, I will get right on it for you.



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by WeAreAWAKE
reply to post by Sinnthia
 


"Must" is an opinion...obviously. And a "group" that believes something can usually remove people from that "group" if the actions and words of an individual break their rules, laws and/or beliefs.



Remove them to where? How? What group did Osama belong to? I really do not get what you are saying at all. I can call myself a Muslim and go around eating pork all day long. What do you think Islam, a religion, should do about that? How does it do it?



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by WeAreAWAKE
reply to post by lifeissacred
 


Just caught your edit. In the Catholic religion, a person can be made a Saint and kicked out of the religion. As I said...I don't know a whole lot about Islam so I'll take your word for it that there is no such "power" within their religion to do so. But that is even scarier. How can any "group" exist, support, represent and stand by their values, if every individual can decide for themselves what that "group" believes? Are you suggesting that is just a failing of the Islamic religion in that it can't police itself? I understand that the Catholic religion can excommunicate a person, and that person can continue to call themselves "Catholic". But they are no longer part of the church...or "group".


This is probably where you are getting confused. You are a little off the mark here. You can never be excomunicated from the Catholic religion. You can only be banned from the CATHOLIC CHURCH. There is a difference. No priest or pope can tell you you no longer believe what you do. Catholicism is a branch of Christianity.

Osama could be banned from mosques but there is no Muslim Vatican.

How do you kick someone out of Christianity?



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by Sinnthia
 


I have to relate Islam to what I know...which is Catholic. Maybe that is my failing here...but...if you break the rules of the Catholic church, you can be excommunicated from the religion (the church). You are no longer welcome to join the congregation and pray/worship with the group. You are no longer considered Catholic by the church, Priests, Pope, etc. You are essentially kicked out. You can still call yourself Catholic, but it is not sanctioned by the church's governing body and you are not...based upon the group...Catholic.



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by WeAreAWAKE
 


This is a complicated subject which gets into multiple interpretations of the religion, but basically, the only authority in Islam is the Quran and the Hadith. Both of these are said to have all of the guidance a Muslim needs to live a good life, but in order for them to be followed correctly one must follow all of the teachings. That's pretty hard to do. There are trusted Islamic authorities as far as people who can issue fatwas (declarations on something which is anti-Islamic etc) etc but there is no authority with regards to a person's 'membership' of the faith. Islam considers religion a wholly personal matter, this is reflected in Islamic law where non-Muslim communities under an Islamic government are to be subject to their own laws and courts as opposed to Islamic laws/courts.
Most Muslims regard the interpretation of Islam which Bin Laden followed as 'revisionist' almost a reformation of the original religion of Islam and not in touch with the Quran's message etc.

The teachings of violent, offensive jihad are completely opposed to the Quran which forbids fighting unless in self defence etc. there are many quotes throughout the Quran telling Muslims to seek peace when they are at war and to forgive anyone who seeks peace with them because that is what God will do etc.

I'll sum up what Muslims feel about war etc with quotes from the BBC's website about Islam




In brief, war is permitted:
* in self defence
* when other nations have attacked an Islamic state
* if another state is oppressing its own Muslims

War should be conducted:
* in a disciplined way
* so as to avoid injuring non-combatants
* with the minimum necessary force
* without anger
* with humane treatment towards prisoners of war





Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love transgressors. - Qur'an 2:190





If anyone killed a person - unless it was for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed the whole people - Qur'an 5:32


edit on 3-5-2011 by lifeissacred because: adding some quotes




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