Battle Over the Skies of Nuremberg

...There’s also a question about what the infamous woodcut by Hans Glaser really shows. While it’s attributed to the incident of 1561, the actual piece is usually dated to 1566...

Coincidentally, there are entries in Chinese historical texts about unusual heavenly events in 1561 and 1566..

Wiki Source (Google Translated) Search for "1561" on the page, the automated translation is not very sensible. Here's my rough translation:

Year 1561, June 24 dusk, object in sky like a container (for measuring crops), top is sharp and bottom large (cone-shaped?), color beige with alternating red/purple at the bottom. Suddenly enlarged (approaching?), and increased luminance. seems to land, but no sound is heard.

1566 August, suddenly sun(s) start to battle. Nuremberg event? but the years mismatched.

reply to post by Rising Against


It's a bit like that childrens game " chinese whispers " where the original account of events finally evolves into a completely different scenario.

I'm sure that many things will have been elaborated on, throughout the centuries, and what may have started out as fireworks ended up as an extraterrestrial war !!

Not saying that's the case, because you know me RA, and you know about my ufo encounters up at Menwith Hill, so I'm very much a believer.
But it is a possibility...

The space / time slip is an interesting theory, highly plausible IMO.
They possibly did witness WW2 future events...Mmmm

Also I guess you need to consider the impact of mass hysteria as well. Maybe one person shouts out something, and everybody present sees the same thing.
But not sure if crowds were present ??
The picture only shows a couple, so that would rule that out !!

Then there's the question about religion at the time.
The Gazette article suggests the signs were a warning to people to mend their lives....Mmmmm....be good people and do as God says.
Maybe a firework display that no-one could understand, could easily be manoeuvered into an act of the wrathful Almighty !!

I think this is the longest reply I've ever done on your threads RA

Interesting stuff baby xx

There was a thread started on this a few weeks ago. And an even older one.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
It's always good for a refreshing new view on the subject or just to even have it brought up again. This is without a doubt a fascinating story.

I was wondering if this event and the event in 1583,which almost destroyed the city of Valencia had any connection and if there were any other accounts during those years.

Details can be found on this thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Admirable Judgment of God and great fright about very terrible and frightful signals of the sky occurred in Flandres, in Villa de Malines, who is in the Duchy of Brabant. They were prodigious events in conjunction of May of year 1583. Printed with license of its Excellence. City of Valencia, house of Joan Navarro. ILLUSTRE SIR Considering the great and admirable signals that every day occur in the region of ayre, especially in the towns or places of unfaithful Turks and among another incredulous people, where before it has been shown us and disclosed what some malignant ones have by lie, however things that can occur, to God nothing impossible, whom allows these things and has by good to let them happen, because He amend us of our vices and sins, that are great and innumerable, and that we do not cause wrath to its divine Majesty against us, not having account of amend our lives, but only in following our wild appetite. And to be so blind, we do not think that such things can occur in the Earth. Then listen what these last days its divine omnipotence has allowed in the land of Flandres, that has come a storm from thunders, lightning, stormy rays and winds with water and mixed stone, never, never seen so horrible and frightful, and mainly in the town of Malines, the conjunction of May, and has been so strong for them, plus the surrounding places of Bravant, Aynaut, Selanda, Olanda (Holland?), and have felt it to Yrlanda (Ireland?), so that we cannot say that it was particular for Malines, but universal for all these provinces and county of Flandres, because of being Anveres to quatro leagues of Malines, only to hear about it cause terrible fright. This that I say was between the ten and eleven of the day, and lasted by space of many hours, as it consists by relation of worthy people of faith who were in that one time in the surrounding towns, and have notified this admirable case of much damage saying that the storm began by the Samporta (that is what they say), where ay very powerful and strong a tower, in which the great military ammunition was stored, among others 400 powder barrels. This tower was hurt by a terrible ray from the sky, that put great terror and fright to all the of the town, whom thought that was the end of the world, because soon after this many houses and squares of the area were destroyed and infinite people died, that was a sad thing to see, a great fire and of so many deaths, never seen or heard before until now. And was so great damage that has not been stone on stone, as much degree that the foundations of this Samporta Tower were lifted away, with other many main houses which they have been destroyed, which are the following: - The house of Carlos Emperor fifth has been absolutely destroyed, and the suburbs of certain part of the town. - Church of Saint Peter, has been absolutely destroyed. - The house of madam Daisy, mostly destroyed. - In the house of the Lombardos it has not been stone on stone. - The house of the greater mail, or Master of slugs, with all the horses that were in the stables. - Bernardine Square also has been destroyed. - The cloister of the Augustinos, destroyed. - The main street (that they call Volcastre) absolutely destroyed. - The house of Hochstratin absolutely of demolished. By number of seven hundred houses of individuals are all ruined. The following day, passed the storm, died people were by number of 300, between men, women and children, without the wounded, who in amount exceeded to the dead. Was necessary to make great holes to bury them. One hundred and fifty wounded men were in the hospital. Another day occurred that in one inn named of the Croes owned by a man called Bernat Ofdans, in which men came to eat and to play, found great number of died men, with cards in their hands, and others with the dices, and others with cups in the hand. It was a thing of great admiration that no one survived, except a host that at that one moment went downstairs to the warehouse to get more wine, and because the warehouse was very low, or by the will of God, not him died. Three days later came out a man from a cave, in which he was hidden by fear of the storm. This man, before this, was famous by man of good brain, and now is with judgment is lost by the great fright that took; thinking the world was finished. For being a remarkable thing, I will not forget to write what follows, and is that while the storm was more in its fury, a woman close to the window, were entered a great heavy rainfall and hail, her head was separated from the body. Other many horrible things I could write, and would be impossible to tell how much bad they are. To see a man without arms, the other without legs and to others with many wounds. And what admires me more is a woman they found dead of pure fright, being pregnant, they opened her belly and they found the alive creature in her, they baptized him and soon he died. We request the omnipotent God that by its divine mercy keeps us far from similar terror and punishment, and that does not watch our sins that they are great and gives true knowledge to us so that we repent and we finish in his service. AMEN.

This is a very interesting story and whether it be fact or fiction it does entertain all the thoughts that Ufologists and skeptics have about aliens and alien aircraft. I do find it hard to believe that a battle between UFO's did take place although there is nothing to say it didn't. Judging by the news reports and what has already been posted it seems like there was multiple witnesses to the phenomena. The question I would ask is why hasn't this happened again if, indeed, it did take place? Surely we should have seen an Independence Day scenario by now?!

There were German and French rocket experimenters in the 16th century, at least one of which used a multi-stage rocket to send objects even higher,

"Until the 16th century, England, Germany, France, and Italy experimented with rocket design. Gunpowder formulas were improved. Flight accuracy was increased. Jean Froissart from France even shot rockets out of tubes similar to the current bazooka design.
During the 16th century, a German fireworks maker developed a "step rocket" which used multiple rockets to send fireworks higher into the sky. This multiple-stage rocket is a basis for rocketry today." source,

library.thinkquest.org...

Queen Elizabeth enjoyed firework displays, and they were pretty much well known then in Europe. The rockets behavior may not have been so well known, but I am assuming that. Maybe there were major earthquakes, or vocanic activity somewhere in the world at that time to cause some visual phenomena, but I don't think fireworks alone would have been such a mystery.

I would love to know what the original source of these images came from so that I can search them out and look at the hard copies.
You mentioned a wooden etching is this located in a gallery somewhere? If not is this from a book I could purchase?

Well, hello Right Ascension. . .I mean Rising Against. After the chat, I fell asleep, and only just now got to the thread. Awesome. I've wondered about this before. . .especially when I was younger, and read of the battle over ancient China.

It's great that threads such as yours become more visible, as you're bringing to light events that some may otherwise never encounter.

Great work. . .seems I remember you saying something to the effect that minimized the value of your findings.

reply to post by Divine Strake


Just to clarify I didn't minimilize my post or purposefully miss out any Information in starting this thread. Instead, I mentioned earlier on that my opening post would be shorter in this thread than it is in most of the threads I usually do. This being due to the lack of overall information related to this case. That was all.
Anyway, apologies for the confusion. I'll reply in more detail tomorrow aswell btw. I'm just using my iPod to type out this post and it's somewhat difficult. :p

Originally posted by Phage
It is interesting to note that in 1540, Vannoccio Biringuccio published his book THE PIROTECHNIA (De La Piro). Primarily a work on metallurgy, it did include a section on fireworks.

It is also very important to note that Nuremberg at the time was one of the gunpowder capitols of Europe.

I believe these images show the actual prints in the collection in Zurich..

upload.wikimedia.org...

commons.wikimedia.org...:Himmelserscheinung_%C3%BCber_N%C3%BCrnberg_vom_14._April_1561.jpg

Fireworks were pretty well known in the West by the mid 15th century and why would you have a firework display in daytime?

reply to post by all answers exist


Do you remember Men In Black when the aliens gun just..discenergrated? It could be something like that.

This is always interesting..Although its absolutely irrelevant to us now having happened so long ago,i sometimes wonder wat was it that they saw...i also sometimes wonder about the european stories about strange creatures that were seen near villages just before the plague hit..

reply to post by VicDiaz89

This is always interesting..Although its absolutely irrelevant to us now having happened so long ago

History, no matter how far into history, is as relevant today as it was when It was in the present. Nothing is 'irrelevant' IMO.

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by anti72

 

That's a fascinating theory, and an over all idea I've delved into in the past. I even dedicated this thread to the nature of time slips in fact. But this being so, It seems that most stories of this nature don't involve anyone experiencing any kind of time slip for a longer period than the time it takes to notice you're actually in a time slip itself.

This being so, the original claims of this case say that the objects in the skies were fighting" for approximatively one hour. Not to forget that the original claims of these objects look nothing like the aircraft of modern times or during any world war.

So, It's an interesting idea but personally, I don't think It's plausible in all honesty.

wow, your other thread is fantastic..

the possibility, older sightings might be ´foreseeings´ of our medial world is interesting.
For example a medevial person seeing Marilin Manson in a video makes him think he is the devil..

reply to post by anti72

For example a medevial person seeing Marilin Manson in a video makes him think he is the devil..

Well, It's really not hard to see why in all honesty.

Looking at ancient paintings is so cool! Definitely makes me wonder. Question: What are the chances that objects could be added afterwards to a painting? Could people tell whether certain objects have been painted on after the original was made? I have to admit. The crosses kind of confuse me. Has anyone seen objects shaped like crosses in the sky?

reply to post by Rising Against


Imho it was the war between our current alien overlords and our previous less warlike guardians, never trust your eternal security to space hippies, although I have no proof all the facts and the available evidence point to this being the case.

When i see that carving it always makes me wonder what they were fighting over. Im guessing it has something to do with us because im pretty sure they can find better places to battle each other. That is if the carving is based from an actual event.