America Spoken of In Revelations

Sun Matrix, miracles never cease do they?

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
I finally found something I can agree with you on Speaker.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Sun Matrix, miracles never cease do they?

GOD
I pray they don't!!!
(in Jesus name!)

First of all .. You have to take the bible ... at it's length .. FROM ... Rev 1:1 to the END ... the very last word ... and if you take parts of anything it may/WILL change the meaning of this .... PERIOD ...

Originally posted by Kai-Raega
Revelations 18: 1-9
(America has fallen, morals decaying, the nation now a home of sins and demons. The bird reference is a subtle way of pointing out the symbol America goes by�the Eagle.)

So did Imperial Rome, and Nazi Germany, and a few dozen other countries use the eagle as their national symbol. Given the context, since America was about 1500 years away from being discovered, I'm guessing they were probably referring to Rome.

Great thread, I started something along these lines some time ago. Lots of posts that I need to read through when I get the chance but I have to say I firmly believe that America is indeed the "mystery babylon" mentioned in Revelation.

This is a long but good read:

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

Read with an open mind and of course I urge you to whip out your Bible and look at the scripture as you read each section. Praying is also important because we all know where true spiritual discernment comes from.


Revelation is probably near the top of my list of books in the bible that I find most fascinating.. (And a little more than that) ... A couple of scriptures pertaining to mystery babylon that I feel are most important are these:


"Re 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. "

For thy merchants were the GREAT MEN OF THE EARTH.. and ALL nations are deceived by their "sorceries".. WOW.. I don't know about you but that just sends chills down my spine. This is a pretty specific identifier for the final babylon.. what does this tell you?

Jer 50:23 How is the hammer of the whole earth cut asunder and broken! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations!

If America is not the final babylon mentioned in the Bible then whatever is supposed to become this babylon better hurry up and become "THE hammer of the whole earth".

Most importantly:

Re 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

I'm sure most of you hear understand that the 'beast', the 'ten horns' and the 'whore' are totally different but here it really clarifies something for me. The whore rides the beast along with the '10 horns' and eventually is turned on and -burned with fire- by these ten horns that she HERSELF helps SET UP!


When God calls in his harvest and man's allowed probation here on earth is brought to a close by the Creator's hand you can rest assured America will have her part in judgement. Don't think for one second that God is going to overlook the sins of this nation The collecive soul of America is completely different then our individual soul. I truly feel that God's hand of protection is slowly being taken away from America and we are imploding from the inside out. America is going to be the ring leader , mostly unwittingly, of Gods final instrument of judgement. If you don't understand how this could be possible read habbakuk in the Bible and it will all become perfectly clear. (Hopefully)

All in all, I comfort in the knowledge that ultimately God himself is Sovereign and is in total control and everything is unfolding just as he has purposed it from the beginning.


Like I said earlier I'll try and get caught up on the lengthy post soon but that's my two cents for now.

Not to get too far off base but I just found this:

www.zianet.com...

""Looking about him Habakkuk sees a vivid demonstration of prevailing evils. He enumerates those who are proud and secure in their own ways (this list taken from: Schultz, The Old Testament Speaks):"

* The unrighteous aggressors --- 2:6-8

* Those who justify their evil ways --- 2:9-11

* Those who shed blood for personal gain --- 2:12-14

* Those who deceive their neighbors --- 2:15-17

* Those who trust in idols --- 2:18-19


Most important question:

"How can a righteous God use the wicked Chaldeans to punish His people, which, in spite of its apostasy, is still more righteous than they?" (Zondervan's Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible).

Wow wow wow..

It's all in Habbakkuk.

God never changes, is history repeating itself?? ........

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars

Jer 50:23 How is the hammer of the whole earth cut asunder and broken! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations!

If America is not the final babylon mentioned in the Bible then whatever is supposed to become this babylon better hurry up and become "THE hammer of the whole earth".

You seem to be complicating things. The prophecy in Jeremiah 50:23 is referring to Babylon THE LAND OF THE CHALDEANS. This is modern day Iraq. If you studied the prophecy along with Isaiah 13 you would realize that this prophecy is happening right now and is in the second phase of a three phase judgment...........the final phase which will occur at the DAY OF THE LORD. (The second coming.)

Why do you look around and say the hammer of the world has to be the US because it is the only superpower. We already know that the hammer of the world is Babylon. I suggest that you take a minute to figure out how Babylon is the hammer of the whole earth.

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
First of all .. You have to take the bible ... at it's length .. FROM ... Rev 1:1 to the END ... the very last word ... and if you take parts of anything it may/WILL change the meaning of this .... PERIOD ...

You DO mean from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 don't you?

I think that not only the USA, but the UK, Russia and Germany are to be found in Dan:7.

Dan 7:1 In the first2298 year8140 of Belshazzar1113 king4430 of Babylon895 Daniel1841 had2370 a dream2493 and visions2376 of his head7217 upon5922 his bed:4903 then116 he wrote3790 the dream,2493 and told560 the sum7217 of the matters.4406
Dan 7:2 Daniel1841 spoke6032 and said,560 I saw1934, 2370 in my vision2376 by5974 night,3916 and, behold,718 the four703 winds7308 of the heaven8065 strove1519 upon the great7229 sea.3221
Dan 7:3 And four703 great7260 beasts2423 came up5559 from4481 the sea,3221 diverse8133 one1668 from another.4481, 1668
Dan 7:4 The first6933 was like a lion,744 and had eagle's1768, 5403 wings:1611 I beheld1934, 2370 till5705, 1768 the wings1611 thereof were plucked,4804 and it was lifted up5191 from4481 the earth,772 and made stand6966 upon5922 the feet7271 as a man,606 and a man's606 heart3825 was given3052 to it.
Dan 7:5 And behold718 another317 beast,2423 a second,8578 like1821 to a bear,1678 and it raised up6966 itself on one2298 side,7859 and it had three8532 ribs5967 in the mouth6433 of it between997 the teeth8128 of it: and they said560 thus3652 unto it, Arise,6966 devour399 much7690 flesh.1321
Dan 7:6 After870 this1836 I beheld,1934, 2370 and lo718 another,317 like a leopard,5245 which had upon5922 the back1355 of it four703 wings1611 of1768 a fowl;5776 the beast2423 had also four703 heads;7217 and dominion7985 was given3052 to it.
Dan 7:7 After870 this1836 I saw1934, 2370 in the night3916 visions,2376 and behold718 a fourth7244 beast,2423 dreadful1763 and terrible,574 and strong8624 exceedingly;3493 and it had great7260 iron1768, 6523 teeth:8128 it devoured399 and broke in pieces,1855 and stamped7512 the residue7606 with the feet7271 of it: and it1932 was diverse8133 from4481 all3606 the beasts2423 that1768 were before6925 it; and it had ten6236 horns.7162
Dan 7:8 I considered1934, 7920 the horns,7162 and, behold,431 there came up5559 among997 them another317 little2192 horn,7162 before4481, 6925 whom there were three8532 of4481 the first6933 horns7162 plucked up by the roots:6132 and, behold,431 in this1668 horn7162 were eyes5870 like the eyes5870 of man,606 and a mouth6433 speaking4449 great things.7260
Dan 7:9 I beheld1934, 2370 till5705, 1768 the thrones3764 were cast down,7412 and the Ancient6268 of days3118 did sit,3488 whose garment3831 was white2358 as snow,8517 and the hair8177 of his head7217 like the pure5343 wool:6015 his throne3764 was like the fiery1768, 5135 flame,7631 and his wheels1535 as burning1815 fire.5135
Dan 7:10 A fiery1768, 5135 stream5103 issued5047 and came forth5312 from4481 before6925 him: thousand506 thousands506 ministered8120 unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand7240, 7240 stood6966 before6925 him: the judgment1780 was set,3488 and the books5609 were opened.6606
Dan 7:11 I beheld1934, 2370 then116 because of4481 the voice7032 of the great7260 words4406 which1768 the horn7162 spoke:4449 I beheld1934, 2370 even till5705, 1768 the beast2423 was slain,6992 and his body1655 destroyed,7 and given3052 to the burning3346 flame.785
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest7606 of the beasts,2423 they had their dominion7985 taken away:5709 yet their lives2417 were prolonged754, 3052 for5705 a season2166 and time.5732

Notice how the eagles wings come out of the lion and are then plucked? Sounds like the USA separating from the UK to me. The bear would be Russia and the leopard (panzer) Germany. All are major powers now, and this prophecy is of the time of Christ's return.

As to who is Babylon in Revelation, I think it's important to realize that John speaks of MYSTERY Babylon, not the ancient city but it's symbolic spiritual counterpart. I think that there may be multiple fulfillments of this prophecy. The Vatican is almost certainly spiritual Babylon, but could there be a economic Babylon as well as a political one?

www.cephas-library.com...

If you don't believe that the Vatican is spiritual Babylon you need to read 'The Two Babylon’s', available here.

www.house-church.net...

Originally posted by Kai-Raega
I see Grommer knows his stuff. Yes, you are correct, Revelations is an astonishing read, especially if you are the type that likes to analyze and break things down. I agree with your interpretations, and I think you are right about the Mark of the beast.

When I first heard about the Office of Homeland Security, I knew something along the lines of national ID cards would follow. As a matter of fact, I distinctly remember a webpage which reported that congress was working on passing legislation to issue every natural born U.S. Citizen an ID card that would give them "Benefits"

These benefits were listed, and one of them was the ability to quickly and efficiently pass through security checkpoints at airlines.

Makes you think, doesn't it?

Especially since those who do not receive the mark are, according to the bible, "unable to buy or sell goods."

How can it 'Make you think' when Revelation is so vague? I've studied Revelation not too long ago in a class at my church and we talked about how everything that is mentioned in Revelation is either happening now, has happened in the past or will happen in the future. You can not use Revelation to predict the future.

Originally posted by Toltec
Excuse me but Saddam Hussein claims direct dependency to Babylonian kings, the same ones who threatened Jews in the bible. He tried to rebuild Babylon as well as is the countries main newspaper called Babel (run by his son).

What do you need for God to come down from heaven and point at Iraq

While I usually do not get involved in these sort of discussions it seem obvious. That if ones want to find a contemporary Antichrist it would be either Saddam Hussein his son (the younger one) or Osama bin laden.

As far as seven kings well take a look the Arab nations. Today one this planet they behave more than kings than any other leader

LOL Hussein and BinLadin as the antiChrist's? Oh please. They're nothing but minons working for other people. Guess who they've gotten their power from? The Bush family more specifically Poppy Bush. If there is an antiChrist around that guy is my bet.

Uh Saddam is dead. Just like to point that out.

There is so many different views out there on who is what etc in Revealtion that ive long given up on it , every week i would read something entirely different. Personally i dont think America is the one to be judged just yet , even though its society is becoming more and more corrupted , i think the same can be said of all western countries and the world in general.

America(along with Britain) in the the most recent past has basically saved the world from a one world system, and many times they have stood up for democracy across the world and also to stop global terrorists ffrom operating freely in countries where they could go about plotting mass murder unhindered.

Personally i think we owe thanks to likes of the US and UK who are willingly to stick troops into the frontlines of religous terror zones so that our citizens dont have to tear through the rumble to find loved ones after another bomb attack. I know they have made many mistakes but I also think they have saved many many lives by keeping a alid on the extremists.

.....The Bush family more specifically Poppy Bush. If there is an antiChrist around that guy is my bet.

Isn't the whole world (or the majority of it) suppost to admire the antichrist? Isn't the antichrist suppost to unite the world by peaceful means? (a temperary false peace, that is)

The Bush family has brought the opposite of global piece. In fact...the Bush family name isn't that admired in the international community.
I think the antichrist will most likely be someone who no one has ever seen or heard of. Someone with answers to world problems. Someone who can unite the world without using economic or military might.

Originally posted by Isaac101



I think the antichrist will most likely be someone who no one has ever seen or heard of. Someone with answers to world problems. Someone who can unite the world without using economic or military might.

You are absolutely correct. So many are deceived into thinking that the anti-Christ is going to be some charming, "charismatic" individual. However, according to the book of Daniel, he is anything but those things. The only reason that the world "worships" him is because he will seem to have all of the answers at a very desperate time.

People will respect him because of his intellect, not because he is some "superstar" or "model."

I agree that the vatican seems to fit the descritption best...Ill do some more research abefore i decide on what to believe.

On the far-away island of Sala-ma-Sond,
Yertle the Turtle was king of the pond.
A nice little pond. It was clean. It was neat.
The water was warm. There was plenty to eat.
The turtles had everything turtles might need.
And they were all happy. Quite happy indeed.

well this is obviously a thinly veiled reference to Europe and the league of nations, who for a while thought that everything was going great

They were... untill Yertle, the king of them all,
Decided the kingdom he ruled was too small.
"I'm ruler", said Yertle, "of all that I see.
But I don't see enough. That's the trouble with me.
With this stone for a throne, I look down on my pond
But I cannot look down on the places beyond.
This throne that I sit on is too, too low down.
It ought to be higher!" he said with a frown.
"If I could sit high, how much greater I'd be!
What a king! I'd be ruler of all that I see!"

this passage describes the rise of national socialism under Hitler
the reference to his throne being too low down is a very obviosu reference to the sedatenland

So Yertle, the Turtle King, lifted his hand
And Yertle, the Turtle King, gave a command.
He ordered nine turtles to swim to his stone
And, using these turtles, he built a new throne.
He made each turtle stand on another one's back
And he piled them all up in a nine-turtle stack.
And then Yertle climbed up. He sat down on the pile.
What a wonderful view! He could see 'most a mile!
"All mine!" Yertle cried. "Oh, the things I now rule!
I'm the king of a cow! And I'm the king of a mule!
I'm the king of a house! And, what's more, beyond that
I'm the king of a blueberry bush and a cat!
I'm Yertle the Turtle! Oh, marvelous me!
For I am the ruler of all that I see!"

this describs the change n world power from Nazi Germany to the United states "he built a new throne"
the nine turtles represent the house of congress
It even mentions the name of the Antichrist
did you spot it
"I'm the king of a blueberry bush "

And all through the morning, he sat up there high
Saying over and over, "A great king am I!"
Until 'long about noon. Then he heard a faint sigh.
"What's that?" snapped the king
And he looked down the stack.
And he saw, at the bottom, a turtle named Mack.
Just a part of his throne. And this plain little turtle
Looked up and he said, "Beg your pardon, King Yertle.
I've pains in my back and my shoulders and knees.
How long must we stand here, Your Majesty, please?"
"SILENCE!" the King of the Turtles barked back.
"I'm king, and you're only a turtle named Mack."
"You stay in your place while I sit here and rule.
I'm the king of a cow! And I'm the king of a mule!
I'm the king of a house! And a bush! And a cat!
But that isn't all. I'll do better than that!

Mack is an obvious reference to Scotland and the Rosslyn chapel where the holy grail is hidden which the antichrist needs to cement his hold over the earth

My throne shall be higher!" his royal voice thundered,
"So pile up more turtles! I want 'bout two hundred!"
"Turtles! More turtles!" he bellowed and brayed.
And the turtles 'way down in the pond were afraid.
They trembled. They shook. But they came. They obeyed.
From all over the pond, they came swimming by dozens.
Whole families of turtles, with uncles and cousins.
And all of them stepped on the head of poor Mack.
One after another, they climbed up the stack.
Then Yertle the Turtle was perched up so high,
He could see fourty miles from his throne in the sky!
"Hooray!" shouted Yertle. "I'm the king of the trees!
I'm king of the birds! And I'm king of the bees!
I'm king of the butterflies! King of the air!
Ah, me! What a throne! What a wonderful chair!
I'm Yertle the Turtle! Oh, marvelous me!
For I am the ruler of all that I see!"

this part is about the build up of Nuclear weapons allowed by the Holy grail upon which their foundation rests

Then again, from below, in the great heavy stack,
Came a groan from that plain little turtle named Mack.
"Your Majesty, please... I don't like to complain,
But down here below, we are feeling great pain.
I know, up on top you are seeing great sights,
But down here at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
We turtles can't stand it. Our shells will all crack!
Besides, we need food. We are starving!" groaned Mack.

this is where satan becomes undone, failing to realise that the Holy Grail contains only the good blood of our lord and saviour it cannot be used for evil purposes

"You hush up your mouth!" howled the mighty King Yertle.
"You've no right to talk to the world's highest turtle.
I rule from the clouds! Over land! Over sea!
There's nothing, no, NOTHING, that's higher than me!"

satan screams his rage at the world and threatens to launch his nukes

But, while he was shouting, he saw with suprise
That the moon of the evening was starting to rise
Up over his head in the darkening skies.
"What's THAT?" snorted Yertle. "Say, what IS that thing
That dares to be higher than Yertle the King?
I shall not allow it! I'll go higher still!
I'll build my throne higher! I can and I will!
I'll call some more turtles. I'll stack 'em to heaven!
I need 'bout five thousand, six hundred and seven!"

Satan realises that no matter how high he tries to climb God will always be above him
in heaven as the text says

But, as Yertle, the Turtle King, lifted his hand
And started to order and give the command,
That plain little turtle below in the stack,
That plain little turtle whose name was just Mack,
Decided he'd taken enough. And he had.
And that plain little lad got a bit mad.
And that plain little Mack did a plain little thing.
He burped!
And his burp shook the throne of the king!

the Holy Grail shatters with a burping noise

And Yertle the Turtle, the king of the trees,
The king of the air and the birds and the bees,
The king of a house and a cow and a mule...
Well, that was the end of the Turtle King's rule!
For Yertle, the King of all Sala-ma-Sond,
Fell off his high throne and fell Plunk! in the pond!

this part decribes satans fall back to hell

And tosay the great Yertle, that Marvelous he,
Is King of the Mud. That is all he can see.
And the turtles, of course... all the turtles are free
As turtles and, maybe, all creatures should be.

don't know what this bit means yet
something about Turtles possibly

next week I will decipher Little miss Muffet and Mary Mary quite Contrary and show with quotes how she repesents the Rebirth of the Virgin Mary and foretells the coming of the Messiah