Conservative Majority in Canada

A Request

Would you please educate your American cousins with a brief explanation of the Canadian parties. I know it is dangerous to make direct comparisons. I've been led astray in European countries and Australia because I assumed words meant the same thing. Does "Conservative" mean the same thing as it does in the US. Is it roughly Conservtive = Republican, Liberal-Democrat, or is there more involved here.

Thanks for any help.

As a Quebecer, this election was badass. And yet, a total joke for Quebec.
We basically said: We want to be part of Canada again. Voting NDP was the best way for us to express it, and kick the Bloc out. Quebecers voting for Harper are very rare, and liberals screwed us enough. So we got covered in Orange.

But lets look now for who we really voted:
In my region, I voted for Nycole Turmel. Ex Union leader. Ok, she has background. Good.

But in my parent's region, they voted for a kid called Matthiew Dubé. And my parents honestly told me that they had no idea who they were voting for. They were just voting "NDP".
Here is a quick bio of the guy:

Matthew coached junior-league soccer and hockey for many years. He is finishing a BA in Political Science with a minor in History.

Hilarous? The guy had no idea he was winning. He demolished a Bloc veteran. And the kid didn't even finish university yet! No experience at all.

Now, it gets funnier:
My family lives in a town called Maskinongé, in Mauricie. They elected NDP cadidate: Ruth Ellen Brosseau
- First, she is a hotty. Ok, not really a criteria, but it's still very rare for MPs
- Second, she didn't even campaigned, she went to Las Vegas in vacation during the campaign!
- Third, she is a Bartender in Ottawa.
- Forth, she doesn't even speak FRENCH. And Berthier/Maskinongé is a totally french region
- Fifth, she lives 4 hours drive away from that region. Because she still attends Carleton University in Ottawa.

Those regions were BQ strongholds. People that brought a lot to their electors. Constructions, jobs, etc. And in one night, we ditched them all for those unexperienced kids.

Bravo. I am actually happy because I voted NDP. But you have to agree this is pretty hilarious and makes totally no sens.

And a note: This election was NOT rigged for NDP. Because I asked all my family in those regions who they voted for, and they all said NDP, and their friends voted NDP, and their friends' family, etc.

If this is not the biggest anti-separatist revelation ever, I don't know what it is.

Originally posted by schuyler
A Request

Would you please educate your American cousins with a brief explanation of the Canadian parties. I know it is dangerous to make direct comparisons. I've been led astray in European countries and Australia because I assumed words meant the same thing. Does "Conservative" mean the same thing as it does in the US. Is it roughly Conservtive = Republican, Liberal-Democrat, or is there more involved here.

Thanks for any help.

Good question.

The (Big C) Conservative party are indeed much like the Republicans as far as policy goes. Not exact, of course, but a fair comparison.

The left in Canada is divided into two basic parties: the NDP (NewDemocrat) and the (Big L) Liberals. The NDP is basically labor. The Liberals are basically your more milquetoast centrist Democrats. I tell my American friends (I'm dual) that the NDP and Liberals are what the US would have if labor (Unions) split from the Democrats and started their own party.


Yes, these are broad generalizations, but it's a start.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

ETA: Party Quebecois are separatists

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

Here's a good summary of last nights vote:

www.cbc.ca...

Originally posted by Daivuk
As a Quebecer, this election was badass. And yet, a total joke for Quebec.
We basically said: We want to be part of Canada again. Voting NDP was the best way for us to express it, and kick the Bloc out.

Well maybe since the world is mostly getting together maybe separation is not the best thing atm and Jack Layton is for Quebec distinction. I voted NPD because I wanted to try to save Canada, yeah that's right, from conservatives. The Bloc only has seats in Quebec, it was the only way to hope for a minority government.

Sure some might be young, but like I said to some other people that see this has negative, I see this has a new opportunity. It doesn't take experience to be a smart person and have the heart at the right place. Politicians over 50 think about their retirement and all seem to be looking to have a comfortable one. Young people are not there yet, they can do what every politicians in the world should have done : the country first.

Although seeing all these young people get this kind of opportunity makes me think, wow, to think I could of been part of that.

I think being elected is one of the highest honors possible and dedication to this honor is dedication for the people.

Originally posted by Daivuk
Here is a quick bio of the guy:

Matthew coached junior-league soccer and hockey for many years. He is finishing a BA in Political Science with a minor in History.

Hilarous? The guy had no idea he was winning. He demolished a Bloc veteran. And the kid didn't even finish university yet! No experience at all.

Being a coach means more to me then education. Education is just nodding yes to what they say and saying it right back exactly how they taught you. That doesn't make someone make the better choices and it doesn't magically make someone smart.

In life, you got it, or you don't. No amount of education will make you really good at it or give you heart and honor.

I don't understand these claims some in the Liberal party are making that the NDP are to 'blame' for the Conservatives win. That seems like more of the 'not our fault we suck' approach that lost the Liberals so many seats in the first place.

Can someone show me the numbers that would possible make that claim make sense?

reply to post by incrediblelousminds


I haven't seen any such claims. Iggy took the blame. As well he should. He was the leader of a morally bankrupt party. Time for them to rebuild from the ground up.

I heard Harper wanted to put a stop to public financing of political parties since he says it costs too much...
Well, I know it costs a lot but I rather pay, then for the parties to make "alliances" with companies even more.

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by incrediblelousminds

 

I haven't seen any such claims. Iggy took the blame. As well he should. He was the leader of a morally bankrupt party. Time for them to rebuild from the ground up.

For example:

Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff blamed his party’s historic seat loss in part on the Conservative Party’s “absolutely unscrupulous” attack ads when he announced his resignation Tuesday.

ipolitics.ca...

and

Ignatieff's humiliation was compounded by the loss of his own seat. On Tuesday morning, the exhausted-looking leader blamed the Liberals' collapse on negative attack ads. Canadians liked him once they got to know him, he told a press conference, but "there were these negative attack ads that made it very difficult for me to connect with people who weren't in the room," he said. "I had a very large square put around my neck for a number of years."

www.guardian.co.uk...

Not to mention the various Liberals ive heard on the CBC the ast few days repeating the same mantra.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by schuyler
A Request

Would you please educate your American cousins with a brief explanation of the Canadian parties. I know it is dangerous to make direct comparisons. I've been led astray in European countries and Australia because I assumed words meant the same thing. Does "Conservative" mean the same thing as it does in the US. Is it roughly Conservtive = Republican, Liberal-Democrat, or is there more involved here.

Thanks for any help.

Good question.

The (Big C) Conservative party are indeed much like the Republicans as far as policy goes. Not exact, of course, but a fair comparison.

The left in Canada is divided into two basic parties: the NDP (NewDemocrat) and the (Big L) Liberals. The NDP is basically labor. The Liberals are basically your more milquetoast centrist Democrats. I tell my American friends (I'm dual) that the NDP and Liberals are what the US would have if labor (Unions) split from the Democrats and started their own party.

www.cbc.ca...

edit on 3-5-2011 by incrediblelousminds because: (no reason given)

What? Really, you actually believe what you typed??

Firstly, the most apt comparison between US and Canadian parties would be the Democrats and the Conservatives. The Liberals are considerably farther to the left than the USA Democrats. All three of the major parties in Canada are center to left.

Originally posted by User8911
I heard Harper wanted to put a stop to public financing of political parties since he says it costs too much...
Well, I know it costs a lot but I rather pay, then for the parties to make "alliances" with companies even more.

Wow. The Conservatives are the ONLY party that gains most of it's funding from average Joe Canadian. The Libs and Dippers are mostly from companies and unions.

I don't want MY money going to a party that I don't support, the entire idea is ludicrous. Harper is right, get rid of that B.S. rule and let ME decide which party I give my money to.

Originally posted by bronco73

Originally posted by User8911
I heard Harper wanted to put a stop to public financing of political parties since he says it costs too much...
Well, I know it costs a lot but I rather pay, then for the parties to make "alliances" with companies even more.

Wow. The Conservatives are the ONLY party that gains most of it's funding from average Joe Canadian. The Libs and Dippers are mostly from companies and unions.

So people who belong to unions aren't 'average joe'? Just about every person i know who is part of a union is about as 'average' as they come.

Originally posted by bronco73


What? Really, you actually believe what you typed??

Firstly, the most apt comparison between US and Canadian parties would be the Democrats and the Conservatives. The Liberals are considerably farther to the left than the USA Democrats. All three of the major parties in Canada are center to left.

Yes, I do believe it. As I said, it's very broad strokes but more or less accurate in my experience and understanding.

You think the Democratic Party in the US is equal to the Conservatives in Canada? How so? I'm willing to be convinced, but I'm going to need some specific comparisons.

All three major parties are center left? Harper wants to cut corporate taxes. That's pretty far to the Right, is it not?

How are we defining "Left, Right and Center' for the purpose of this discussion?

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by bronco73

Originally posted by User8911
I heard Harper wanted to put a stop to public financing of political parties since he says it costs too much...
Well, I know it costs a lot but I rather pay, then for the parties to make "alliances" with companies even more.

Wow. The Conservatives are the ONLY party that gains most of it's funding from average Joe Canadian. The Libs and Dippers are mostly from companies and unions.

So people who belong to unions aren't 'average joe'? Just about every person i know who is part of a union is about as 'average' as they come.

Umm, fine, but that isn't what I was saying. It's the unions rather than the union members that contribute most of the money to the Libs and Dips

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by bronco73


What? Really, you actually believe what you typed??

Firstly, the most apt comparison between US and Canadian parties would be the Democrats and the Conservatives. The Liberals are considerably farther to the left than the USA Democrats. All three of the major parties in Canada are center to left.

Yes, I do believe it. As I said, it's very broad strokes but more or less accurate in my experience and understanding.

You think the Democratic Party in the US is equal to the Conservatives in Canada? How so? I'm willing to be convinced, but I'm going to need some specific comparisons.

All three major parties are center left? Harper wants to cut corporate taxes. That's pretty far to the Right, is it not?

How are we defining "Left, Right and Center' for the purpose of this discussion?

Cutting corporate taxes does not a right-winger make, unless of course you consider the Liberals right wing too since they have also cut corporate taxes. This is such a common thing in Canada, the second a labelled right leaning party comes out with the slightest hint of a right leaning policy, right away they are extreme right wing zealots. However, when actual party platforms are scrutinized, it becomes painfully clear that while they may be considered "right wing" in Canada, real comparisons with other global jurisdictions show that in reality there really isn't a whole heck of a lot of major parties in Canada that one could consider to be far right or even right of center, Wild Rose is one and I can't really think of many more. Even the former right wing PC's in Alberta have moved to the center.

The Conservatives party platform, along with those so evil corporate tax cuts, includes things like:
* Funding for job training
* The work sharing program
* Funding for skills upgrading
* Hiring credits for business
* Canada student grants program for low and middle income students
* Full support of the Canada Health act and public health care (Incidentally, Stephen Harper is the ONLY leader among the three parties that has never used private health care. Even the self appointed champion of public health Jack Layton was caught using a private clinic two years ago)
* renewing the federal/provincial health accord for a gauranteed 10 years of stability
* pledges to 6% increases in the public health spending
* family caregiver tax credits

There are many more examples, and if you'd like me to list more I will more than happily comply. It could easily be argued when viewing the Conservative platform that they are in fact further to the left than even the Democrats are in the United States.

and, as so many from the left have so often pointed out, this Conservative government is the highest spending government in the history of Canada. If that isn't left of center policy, nothing is.

reply to post by bronco73


Some fair points. Thanks for chiming in. I still disagree, though. All of those things can still be shown to correlate with the GOP in the states. For example, they also traditionally increase deficit spending.

Originally posted by bronco73

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by bronco73

Originally posted by User8911
I heard Harper wanted to put a stop to public financing of political parties since he says it costs too much...
Well, I know it costs a lot but I rather pay, then for the parties to make "alliances" with companies even more.

Wow. The Conservatives are the ONLY party that gains most of it's funding from average Joe Canadian. The Libs and Dippers are mostly from companies and unions.

So people who belong to unions aren't 'average joe'? Just about every person i know who is part of a union is about as 'average' as they come.

Umm, fine, but that isn't what I was saying. It's the unions rather than the union members that contribute most of the money to the Libs and Dips

Yes, but those Unions are funded by union member funds. So it's still a direct connection.

Dont get me wrong, i'm not defending the NDP or Unions. Just clarifying what I see as a difference in definition.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
reply to post by bronco73

 

Some fair points. Thanks for chiming in. I still disagree, though. All of those things can still be shown to correlate with the GOP in the states. For example, they also traditionally increase deficit spending.

If you read the Conservative platform fully and without bias, it is pretty easy to come to the conclusion that they are considerably left of the Republicans, and of course it's my opinion that they are even left of the Democrats. The beauty of politics, once an opinion is formed it is incredibly difficult to change ones mind. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by bronco73

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by bronco73

Originally posted by User8911
I heard Harper wanted to put a stop to public financing of political parties since he says it costs too much...
Well, I know it costs a lot but I rather pay, then for the parties to make "alliances" with companies even more.

Wow. The Conservatives are the ONLY party that gains most of it's funding from average Joe Canadian. The Libs and Dippers are mostly from companies and unions.

So people who belong to unions aren't 'average joe'? Just about every person i know who is part of a union is about as 'average' as they come.

Umm, fine, but that isn't what I was saying. It's the unions rather than the union members that contribute most of the money to the Libs and Dips

Yes, but those Unions are funded by union member funds. So it's still a direct connection.

Dont get me wrong, i'm not defending the NDP or Unions. Just clarifying what I see as a difference in definition.

Understood, however it was my intention to illustrate (I didn't do a very good job I see) that it is the unions as an organization that donates to the left of center parties.

Like this: www.torontosun.com...

It is quite obvious that the american steelworkers union didn't hold a fundraiser with its members in order to send tens of thousands of dollars to the NDP, and it's equally obvious that it wasn't sent by individual members. This was the powers that be running the union taking funds garnered from income from union dues and donating them to a left wing party that they know are sympathetic to their cause. It's also in my opinion quite evident that they did not poll their members to see if they were even ok with it.

Originally posted by bronco73

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
reply to post by bronco73

 

Some fair points. Thanks for chiming in. I still disagree, though. All of those things can still be shown to correlate with the GOP in the states. For example, they also traditionally increase deficit spending.

If you read the Conservative platform fully and without bias, it is pretty easy to come to the conclusion that they are considerably left of the Republicans, and of course it's my opinion that they are even left of the Democrats. The beauty of politics, once an opinion is formed it is incredibly difficult to change ones mind. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Tell you what, would you be willing to compare and contrast for me, comparing the Harper Admin with the Bush Admin?

I appreciate you walking me through this.