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Either Heaven Doesn't Exist, Or Life Is Meaningless

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posted on May, 4 2011 @ 07:53 AM
Both believers and non-believers in heaven post here on ATS with the belief that it is meaningful somehow to do so.

This proves the entire double-bind premise of the OP is flawed and nonsensical. It's like me saying if I don't get my Starbucks today life is meaningless. I mean, wtf is the point?

posted on May, 4 2011 @ 10:48 AM
reply to post by WestWood

I gotta say that this is the deepest answer I got without any explanation at all.

I think that could be just it... I'm only still munching all day so I haven't taken the time to get a glimpse maybe ...?

posted on May, 4 2011 @ 11:03 AM
reply to post by Sinter Klaas


posted on May, 4 2011 @ 12:43 PM
I remember asking the Nun, after some long passage about lots of people sitting around on thrones blowing trumpets and angels singing God's praises, what else went on in heaven? One of the many times in Religious Instruction I got the ruler. But as a kid I couldn't get any idea of what heaven would be like and as an adult , I couldn't either until I read about other Religions and as soon as I got to the concept of reincarnation, I was home.

It then struck me that if one reincarnates one isn't subject to the bribery of dear Mother church because one doesn't go to heaven.

After a while the inevitable thought cropped up, how many times do I go round and round? Do I gradually through all there incarnations make my soul lighter and slowly ascend to a spiritual heaven, then will I have to sing or play a trumpet. Do I care - they will if I have to sing!

Life means everything as a loved one or new born struggles for it. But whatever age we are, life's only meaningless if we aren't content with it and we have some power within ourselves to change whatever we wish.

I remember again at school the RI Nun drumming it into us that whatever gifts we had, we must use them to full advantage otherwise God would be angry with us if we wasted them. The guilt that piled onto a kid was terrible, My friend, loved playng the piano, suddenly she couldn't enjoy playing the piano, she had to slave to try to become a concert pianist. The pleasure of playing the piano was suddenly taken away from her and when her parent decided she had to stop her music and concentrate on her O"levels, she became quite ill.

I think its when heaven becomes more important than life our existence in our eyes becomes meaningless because it robs us of where our full focus should be on all the everyday things and pleaures that make up our lives

posted on May, 4 2011 @ 01:23 PM
The declarative statement that trumps this one is the one more deserving of considreation.
If life isn't meaningless then there is a hell. And there will be no pity for any one there. Not from anyone. Because
they chose to be there.

posted on May, 13 2011 @ 07:55 PM
there is no heaven or hell

we all die, and its man/woman's biggest fear, its hard for us to know one day the person we are and what we perceive to have soul and great attributes will be gone, just over. ( so we create gods and excuses )

if there is a heaven, imagine how boring it would be, the things we love so much in this life are things that make us live, like, eating food, sex, bettering ourselves, competition, discovery of unknown, answers to questions, plain wonder and appreciation of are world

but in Heaven, there would be no need for these things, i guess all answers will be answered, and the spirt of wonder and adventure will be gone, no need to taste the great new menu at a fancy restaurant, you dont need to eat, no want to pro create, (i guess people in heaven don't have kids), thats going to make it pretty boring... for eternity

if everyone could paint Vincent Van Goghs, we would not marvel in the splender

so we just sit around for eternity thanking God, and worshiping him obv

posted on May, 14 2011 @ 08:16 AM
This has to do with the debate as to whether or not human beings possess a soul. Personally I believe that the human being is an amazing and special being with a soul driving the body. I also believe that humanity is the great cancer of the Earth and that 90 percent of the world's population is selfish and uses their free will for the wrong reasons.

The belief that when you die, you just die, does have merit. To date there is absolutely no evidence to show any different. Sure there are accounts of reincarnation and near death experiences etc......, but we do not have a true scientific basis for the "soul". At this point it is still an issue of belief. I choose to believe that we are comprised of energy and that when we die the energy is transformed to something or somewhere else. I believe that it's not a matter of the science being absent, but that's it's a matter of the science being still undiscovered and understood.

-Besides; isn't a belief which comforts billions and leads many to live a selfless life a good thing?

posted on May, 14 2011 @ 08:41 AM
What if everyones heaven is different? Maybe in your heaven if you want to have sex you can and without any negative feelings, like guilt... if you want to eat, you can, again without any feelings of I shouldn't have eaten that, or I ate too much... you still have free will, just no negative emotions attached to anything... Its really hard to say because I don't believe we will think like we do now... we have carnal minds, material minds... everyday we are bombarded with negative emotion... we grow up being told don't do this, don't do that, its bad, its ugly, its wrong... I don't think we will have those feelings... wouldn't that be heavenly?

posted on May, 14 2011 @ 09:05 AM
reply to post by Greenize

but surely there would be no need to procreate or eat in heaven

but i suppose, heaven is heaven so it will be great!!!! and you can do what you want, forever

or we can realise this is our one life and make the most of the life we have, and not think this is a test by God to see if we are allowed into the VIP lounge

I personally don't want to live forever, i am happy making my friends and family smile and bring joy to them, and work hard to help this life be enjoyable for me as well

also Im a artist/designer, and theres nothing more wonderful than looking at your creation. knowing you created that beauty yourself.... bit like god really LOL

posted on May, 14 2011 @ 09:13 AM
reply to post by Englishgent

No, no need, just the desire to do so. I don't know... I think this is one subject that could be discussed forever and never find an answer... I think if it does exsist, it will be different for everyone. My idea of heaven would be a mountainous place with waterfalls and lots of weeping willow trees and flowers, and rich thick green tufted moss everywhere... that certainly wouldn't appeal to everyone... but I'd find it heavenly!

posted on May, 14 2011 @ 09:24 AM
reply to post by Greenize

that sounds nice (not being sarcastic), but would you get bored there for eternity? is there a option in heaven to commit suicide? maybe people when they have done all they want to achieve and desire, and given all the love and wisdom, see no reason to carry on, 'the job is done, now can I go with a good legacy?'

the Egyptians believed you lived on when ever you name was spoken, i like the idea of living on in peoples memories, live forever in the stories of your life, like the film Big Fish

and I agree that people are entitled to there beliefs if it makes them happy

posted on May, 14 2011 @ 09:26 AM

Originally posted by Griffo
Saw this on reddit just before, thought it would be a good idea to post it on here:

Ok, so heaven is meant to be a perfect place where "there will be no sickness, no death and no tears (wikipedia)." However, not everyone will get into heaven, if it were to exist people that made it there would have friends and loved ones that didn't; presumably stuck in hell for all eternity.

Thus if heaven is a perfect place where there are no tears it must mean that once people make it to heaven they lose all knowledge of their previous lives, as it can't be a place of eternal happiness if you know that some of those that were closest to you are suffering. This essentially makes our lives meaningless as all our relationships amount to nothing except in so far as we behaved well enough to get our ticket to heaven.

This leaves the possibilities to be that heaven doesn't exist, or if it does, it's not all it's cracked up to be or that life is meaningless. Which is it?


The latter, definately..

posted on May, 14 2011 @ 09:34 AM
One mans heaven is another mans hell.

posted on May, 14 2011 @ 09:34 AM
reply to post by Englishgent

Our minds are limited here, what if in heaven, you could think about a new place and "poof" or you could travel anywhere you wanted just by a thought... lets say I decide one day I am tired of the mountains and I want an ocean there instead and all I have to do is picture it and in an instant there it is... the one thing about people that is limitless is the imagination.. you could have a different view everyday....... crazy? Probably, but its a thought...

posted on May, 14 2011 @ 09:38 AM
reply to post by Griffo

Have you seen the movie, What dreams may come? Interesting take on the afterlife.

posted on May, 14 2011 @ 09:38 AM
It is fascinating to hear so many views. I tend to side with Milton on this one...

"Infernal world! and thou, profoundest Hell,
Receive thy new possessor—one who brings
A mind not to be changed by place or time.
The mind is its own place, and in itself
Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
What matter where, if I be still the same
. . . Here at least/ We shall be free . . .
we may reign secure; and, in my choice,
To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. (I:251-263)"

What I am taking from this is that it is all in how we perceive the world and how we choose to live in it. If we want meaning then we create it. Otherwise, meaningless is just falling to the circumstances of the universe and thus there is no meaning to life. Does that make sense? lol.. just curious.

posted on May, 14 2011 @ 09:45 AM
reply to post by Greenize

but lets be honest, heaven is a man made idea to deal with mans biggest fear... death

we have become over evolution critical thinkers and great problem solvers that have let us fly to the moon, build great cities, art, literature, and try and understand our place in the universe

but the idea of our self one day dying is hard for us to get to grips with, so we like the idea that our souls will live forever

blade runner quote:

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.

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