Osama Buried at Sea...within 24 hours. Really?

I believe this whole story has holes for many of the aforementioned reasons.

I would like to add that we may never see an interview from his daughter as long as they can frighten her enough and give her a new identity and a few million dollars.

She's 12 years old and according to this BBC video saw the whole thing......Go to 05:26..

I would like to offer a $100,000 dollar reward for the body of Osama Bin Ladin. Get out your old russian sub and find it for me. Watch out for the warships protecting the area. The body is supposedly in a bag with wieghts. Just look where all the warships were leaving the area.

what would be the purpose for a burial at sea, when this is not in accordance with islamic tradition:
abcnews.go.com...
if their aim was to desecrate the body of our "enemy", why wouldn't we just piss on his bones?
dosmosis.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by 000063
No, the photos would make retaliation worse. Read closer.

You must be getting paid to post, lol. You're not very convincing though, how exactly would it make matters worse? Again, are you saying that they have the ability to hit us, but just aren't that angry yet, so they'll probably just hit us a little bit? But, if we release the photos, whoa nelly, they're REALLY gonna let us have it?

Quit strawmanning.

Say you're at a bar and a guy picks a fight by pissing you off about some trivial thing. So you both step outside. He's sloshed, you're good enough to smack him around a bit.

Then he insults your little sister's honor.

Suddenly, he's gone from someone who's about to have the stupid smacked out of him to someone who's about to get his face stomped into a mudhole.

You guys must think we're complete idiots. Tell your bosses they shouldn't have dumped the evidence, they should have brought the body back to prove beyond ANY doubt that they did what they said. Otherwise, it's just more lies they expect us to believe.

Ah, yes, the inevitable shill accusations. What did I tell you about ad hominems?

Originally posted by Procharmo
I believe this whole story has holes for many of the aforementioned reasons.

I would like to add that we may never see an interview from his daughter as long as they can frighten her enough and give her a new identity and a few million dollars.

She's 12 years old and according to this BBC video saw the whole thing......Go to 05:26..

w2x0ICZq1vE

Preteen girls who've watched their parents get killed in front of their eyes don't make for objective witnesses.

Originally posted by Dosmosis
what would be the purpose for a burial at sea, when this is not in accordance with islamic tradition:
abcnews.go.com...

Islam allows sea burial in special circumstances, such as when there's a risk someone might dig up the body on land. His home country didn't want them, and what should the US do, shop around?

What I'm about to say has probably been repeated by many others, but I shall continue regardless.

If you ever tell someone about something big/unbelievable what do they ask for? They ask for proof. If I told a friend I found Bigfoot, they would ask for pictures/video/something. Here we have the most wanted man in the world, on the run for 10 years, then was found, killed, DNA tested, and buried at sea within 12-24 hours. Now the government (whom of course has never told a lie) comes out and say's its true without providing any pictures or video. This was purportedly live streamed to the White House, so why not release this footage immediately? If we got him like we said, why do you need to hold back the footage? Did none of these soldiers take a picture of him? Why is this not being released immediately?

This becomes even more ridiculous when you look at what happened with Saddam Hussein. When he was captured there was a public execution, tons of pictures/videos were taken, there was an autopsy, etc. Yet, now we kill the most wanted man in the world (more so than Saddam) and throw his body in the ocean? This is absolutely ridiculous. Besides the people who have already pointed out that being buried at sea is not in Islamic tradition (unless you die at sea in some circumstances), there is absolutely no proof other than our "highly trustworthy" government who never tells lies.

However, here is where the problem lies. The government could care less about what we think on boards like these. Their tactic is simple. All they have to do is convince the general public (who are conditioned not to question their government) that this is true. Once that many people believe it, the people who question it are considered "ridiculous." We will now be deemed "weird", or "strange", or out right crazy if we ever bring this up. There are more people who believe it then those who don't, rendering our opinions nearly useless without being criticized. This is unfortunate, but it is also the truth.

Originally posted by StruggleTogether
What I'm about to say has probably been repeated by many others, but I shall continue regardless.

If you ever tell someone about something big/unbelievable what do they ask for? They ask for proof. If I told a friend I found Bigfoot, they would ask for pictures/video/something. Here we have the most wanted man in the world, on the run for 10 years, then was found, killed, DNA tested, and buried at sea within 12-24 hours.

He was found back in March. They've been planning this for weeks. DNA matching only takes a few hours when you don't have that irritating backlog to work through.

Now the government (whom of course has never told a lie)

Straw man. Assuming that a given gov't statement it a lie without evidence is just as bad as assuming it's true without evidence.

comes out and say's its true without providing any pictures or video.

Yet.

This was purportedly live streamed to the White House, so why not release this footage immediately?

If we got him like we said, why do you need to hold back the footage? Did none of these soldiers take a picture of him? Why is this not being released immediately?

It's still classified. The reason Osama was never charged for 9/11 is that all of what the FBI claims is conclusive evidence is still classified. There was more than enough to justify this operation from the 1998 Embassy Bombing, though.

This becomes even more ridiculous when you look at what happened with Saddam Hussein. When he was captured there was a public execution, tons of pictures/videos were taken, there was an autopsy, etc.

And he was turned over to his family and buried in about 22 hours. Also, I can't find any evidence of an autopsy; he dropped, there was a snap, a doctor examined him, it was assumed, for some strange reason, that he died of a broken neck. The US has pictures and video, they just haven't decided to release them yet.

Yet, now we kill the most wanted man in the world (more so than Saddam) and throw his body in the ocean? This is absolutely ridiculous. Besides the people who have already pointed out that being buried at sea is not in Islamic tradition (unless you die at sea in some circumstances),

Or your body is at risk of being dug up and mutilated. Also, the Saudis didn't want him, and he couldn't be buried in America.

there is absolutely no proof other than our "highly trustworthy" government who never tells lies.

Prove it's a lie.

However, here is where the problem lies. The government could care less about what we think on boards like these. Their tactic is simple. All they have to do is convince the general public (who are conditioned not to question their government) that this is true.

The very existence of this website is evidence that people don't trust the the gov't. Americans, in polls, trust the gov't less than most people in the world. Stop trying to make yourself out as some kind of free-thinking rebel.

Once that many people believe it, the people who question it are considered "ridiculous."

Sometimes they are. Like the people who think that a "micro-nuke" was detonated on 9/11.

We will now be deemed "weird", or "strange", or out right crazy if we ever bring this up. There are more people who believe it then those who don't, rendering our opinions nearly useless without being criticized. This is unfortunate, but it is also the truth.

I like how you passive-aggressively imply everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot.

Originally posted by 000063
Prove it's a lie.

Prove it's not.

Originally posted by 000063
He was found back in March. They've been planning this for weeks. DNA matching only takes a few hours when you don't have that irritating backlog to work through.

I did not mean to imply that he was found in 24 hours, by "found" I meant we got troops to his compound; excuse me for the confusion. I also realize DNA testing only takes a few hours, but what I'm getting at is the fact that it happened so fast without any evidence being released of it. Heck, they didn't even show a video of the soldiers throwing him into the ocean.

Straw man. Assuming that a given gov't statement it a lie without evidence is just as bad as assuming it's true without evidence.

So wheres the evidence for this? You seem to be assuming its true without any evidence. I haven't see any DNA tests, videos, or actual photos (please don't refer to the one the NYT has posted because it's already a proven hoax).

Yet.

Why do we need to wait? What is there to hide if their telling the truth? If I tell someone I see Bigfoot and have evidence I'm not going to keep the evidence from them for days.

It's still classified. The reason Osama was never charged for 9/11 is that all of what the FBI claims is conclusive evidence is still classified. There was more than enough to justify this operation from the 1998 Embassy Bombing, though.

Why is it still classified? What do they need to hide about his death?

And he was turned over to his family and buried in about 22 hours. Also, I can't find any evidence of an autopsy; he dropped, there was a snap, a doctor examined him, it was assumed, for some strange reason, that he died of a broken neck. The US has pictures and video, they just haven't decided to release them yet.

They decided not to release it? This video was the first thing that came up in a google search for "Saddam Hussein execution." video.google.com...#
The official video (recorded by the Iraqi government) showed him having the noose put around his neck, but this video (shot by a guard) shows the whole thing for the whole world to see. Also I was incorrect about the autopsy. His sons were shown to reporters in a military morgue and were presumably autopsied, sorry for that confusion. The point still remains though.

Or your body is at risk of being dug up and mutilated. Also, the Saudis didn't want him, and he couldn't be buried in America.

Unless his body is dug up and mutilated? Are you saying everyone should be thrown out to sea to prevent this from happening? Who cares if he is dug up and mutilated. I really don't see the argument you are trying to make here.

Prove it's a lie.

Are you telling me to prove that this whole thing is a lie? What do you want me to do? There is no photographic evidence that can be debunked, nor video. If you believe everything you hear from everybody without any evidence then so be it.

The very existence of this website is evidence that people don't trust the the gov't. Americans, in polls, trust the gov't less than most people in the world. Stop trying to make yourself out as some kind of free-thinking rebel.

I don't make myself out to be a "free-thinking rebel'; I make myself out to be a realist. Please post the polls your referring to showing that the American public distrusts our government. From what I can tell everyone I know has been eating up this Osama Bin Laden death as 100% pure truth. Also, did I ever say that people didn't question the government? I specifically referenced this board so I don't even understand why you are bringing that up.

I like how you passive-aggressively imply everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot.

I'm not sure if you understand the grammar that I used, but I specifically said "our" and "we" not "me." I am referring to everyone that doubts Osama's death, not my own ideas. Please read more carefully before you make accusations against me that hold no ground.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by 000063
Prove it's a lie.

Prove it's not.

Logic does not work that way. You can't just go "NO U" when you make an assertion. You claimed it was a lie, now back it up. Otherwise, you have belief without evidence.

You have three posts to respond, or I'll assume you concede, unless you explain why you can't prove it right now.

reply to post by 27jd


Personal conflict has everything to do with it.
Do you believe our soldiers don’t feel retribution is demanded when terrorists kill or wound one ours? You can bet there is always someone or perhaps even a group of people that will take it personally. It’s human nature to do so.

I could care less if they release photos of Osama Bin Laden.
Seems to me you think I’m a pacifist and feel sorry for the terrorists. Especially with queries such as: “What course of action do you foresee his followers taking against the country who assassinated the person they admired and held profound loyalty?”
You are mistaken if you believe that question was intended as a portrayal of sentiments towards them. Its purpose was meant as a depiction of what al-Qaeda’s followers must be feeling. Also help understand why I feel a terrorist attack is more prominent if photos are released.
Perhaps I may be at fault for not elaborating more on the subject.

Originally posted by 000063
You have three posts to respond, or I'll assume you concede, unless you explain why you can't prove it right now.

Really? Your making a threat on a message board? Guess I just added to his ridiculous "3 post" challenge.

Originally posted by StruggleTogether
I did not mean to imply that he was found in 24 hours, by "found" I meant we got troops to his compound; excuse me for the confusion. I also realize DNA testing only takes a few hours, but what I'm getting at is the fact that it happened so fast without any evidence being released of it. Heck, they didn't even show a video of the soldiers throwing him into the ocean.

I repeat: Yet.

So wheres the evidence for this? You seem to be assuming its true without any evidence. I haven't see any DNA tests, videos, or actual photos (please don't refer to the one the NYT has posted because it's already a proven hoax).

There was a DNA test conducted. Standard procedure for identifying terrorist leaders. It's Osama. Unless you have evidence that this particular DNA test was fixed, but not the ones they used on Saddam or a load of other bad guys.

Why do we need to wait? What is there to hide if their telling the truth? If I tell someone I see Bigfoot and have evidence I'm not going to keep the evidence from them for days.

Good question. Maybe they'll explain that when/if they release the evidence.

Why is it still classified? What do they need to hide about his death?

See above response.

They decided not to release it? This video was the first thing that came up in a google search for "Saddam Hussein execution." video.google.com...#
The official video (recorded by the Iraqi government) showed him having the noose put around his neck, but this video (shot by a guard) shows the whole thing for the whole world to see. Also I was incorrect about the autopsy. His sons were shown to reporters in a military morgue and were presumably autopsied, sorry for that confusion. The point still remains though.

The official video cuts off before the actual pull of the lever. The guard's video was entirely unauthorized.

Unless his body is dug up and mutilated? Are you saying everyone should be thrown out to sea to prevent this from happening? Who cares if he is dug up and mutilated.

The gov't, apparently. I don't see the flaw in showing respect to your enemies.

Are you telling me to prove that this whole thing is a lie? What do you want me to do? There is no photographic evidence that can be debunked, nor video. If you believe everything you hear from everybody without any evidence then so be it.

Straw man. You cannot claim something is a lie without evidence to prove it. Otherwise, all you have is truthiness.

I don't make myself out to be a "free-thinking rebel'; I make myself out to be a realist. Please post the polls your referring to showing that the American public distrusts our government.

www.thedailybeast.com...
blogs.marketwatch.com...
www.theatlantic.com...

From what I can tell everyone I know has been eating up this Osama Bin Laden death as 100% pure truth. Also, did I ever say that people didn't question the government? I specifically referenced this board so I don't even understand why you are bringing that up.

As evidence people distrust the gov't.

I'm not sure if you understand the grammar that I used, but I specifically said "our" not "me." I am referring to everyone that doubts Osama's death, not my own ideas. Please read more carefully before you make accusations against me that hold no ground.

I'm talking about the implicative language you used.

Originally posted by StruggleTogether

Originally posted by 000063
You have three posts to respond, or I'll assume you concede, unless you explain why you can't prove it right now.

Really? Your making a threat on a message board? Guess I just added to his ridiculous "3 post" challenge.

Not at all. I'm giving him a reasonable amount of posts to backup his position. 27jd has the habit of assuming the gov't is lying out of hand. I'm asking for evidence of any specific lies in this matter, which he will doubtless be unable to produce.

Originally posted by Beowolfs
reply to post by 27jd

 

Personal conflict has everything to do with it.
Do you believe our soldiers don’t feel retribution is demanded when terrorists kill or wound one ours? You can bet there is always someone or perhaps even a group of people that will take it personally. It’s human nature to do so.

I could care less if they release photos of Osama Bin Laden.
Seems to me you think I’m a pacifist and feel sorry for the terrorists. Especially with queries such as: “What course of action do you foresee his followers taking against the country who assassinated the person they admired and held profound loyalty?”
You are mistaken if you believe that question was intended as a portrayal of sentiments towards them. Its purpose was meant as a depiction of what al-Qaeda’s followers must be feeling. Also help understand why I feel a terrorist attack is more prominent if photos are released.
Perhaps I may be at fault for not elaborating more on the subject.

You're not. 27jd just can't wrap his mind around the fact that the big evil gubmint might want to show respect to a fallen foe, because he wouldn't do the same.

reply to post by 000063


The other poster said it was a lie, so as far as our conversation goes, yours and mine, I made the first request for you to prove it's not a lie. You guys claimed to have the body in custody, so prove to us, the American public, that you got him. I'll be waiting, you got 3 posts...

Originally posted by Beowolfs
Also help understand why I feel a terrorist attack is more prominent if photos are released.
Perhaps I may be at fault for not elaborating more on the subject.

I ask again, when did they lose their desire to strike us? That's what I'm not understanding. Seems to me, again, that if they could hit us, they would. Any other circumstance not withstanding.

Originally posted by 000063
You're not. 27jd just can't wrap his mind around the fact that the big evil gubmint might want to show respect to a fallen foe, because he wouldn't do the same.

Seriously, respect for Osama Bin Laden? Seems to me the psychological well being of Americans should come before some lofty "respect" for a mass murderer. They could have done their best to balance the two, but as it stands, the whole thing looks extremely suspicious to the critical thinker. And you're right, I am jaded towards our government. They do not represent we the people, they represent the highest bidder. So yes, I do outright think they're lying about most things. I readily admit that.

Originally posted by 000063

Logic does not work that way. You can't just go "NO U" when you make an assertion. You claimed it was a lie, now back it up. Otherwise, you have belief without evidence.

What is this the logic school of the blind leading the blind?

If you cant prove its true, and he cant prove it isnt true, you are BOTH believing without evidence and your position is not superior AT ALL.

And where evidence is impossible, (such as when your government dumps the body) reasoning can stand in.