SCI/TECH: A Wildlife Catastrophe in the U.K.

More about the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute....

James E. Moltz, Chairman of the Board of Trustees. Also, Trustee for the Rockefeller Brothers Fund. Among those supported by grants from the Rockefeller Brothers Fund:

�Sierra Club
�Greenpeace
�Earth Island Institute
�Rainforest Action Network
�Environmental Advocates
�Earth Day Network
�Union of Concerned Scientists
�Physicians for Social Responsibility (a front of PETA)
�International Centre for Trade and Sustainable Development (socialist group)


John H. Steele, Senior Scientist & Director Emeritus. Also, Trustee for the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation supports (among others) the Tides Foundation & Tides Center which redistributes donated funds and grant monies to Greenpeace, Sierra Club, Institute for Social Ecology, Environmental Working Group, Environmental Media Services and others.

Technology Already Exists To Stabilize Global Warming

www.sciencedaily.com...

Worth a read.

Or maybe, technology is needed to stabilize global temperatures...

(excerpt) GREENHOUSE GASES - NOTHING TO BLAME FOR?

Moscow , Institute of Geography, Russian Academy of Sciences
July 30th, 2004.
Russian scientists have analyzed changes occurred within the past 5, 20, and 100 thousand years and established that each warming is associated with the same behaviour of greenhouse gases: temperature rises firstly, and the concentration of greenhouse gases begins to increase later, with a lag of several thousand years. The growth of gases concentration is faster than that of temperature and soon outruns the latter.

Originally posted by Outland

Instead of referring to factual data as "excuses", show me some real data where any of the so-called "greenhouse gases" (other than water vapor) have increased the Earth's mean temperature. Show me the physics of how 380PPM of CO2 can influence the temperature of the other 999,000+ PPM of the remaining atmosphere. Tell me how, aside from occasional volcanic aerosols, the GTA has dipped repeatedly regardless of the steadily rising trend of "greenhouse gases".

You can believe what some will tell you and want you to hear, or you can examine the data yourself and apply some basic highschool level physics. The science just isn't there, but the pseudo science is.

Once again you are unwilling to look at the whole picture, you prefer to try to link human activity = only to CO2, which is completly wrong, and you should know this. There are many gases and chemicals human activities are releasing into the atmosphere and the oceans, and all of these together are making an impact on the climate.

You keep saying that what is happening to the climate is probably mostly due to the Sun, yet you completly ignore the following, which i have posted in the past.

But the most striking feature, he says, is that looking at the past 1,150 years the Sun has never been as active as it has been during the past 60 years.

Over the past few hundred years, there has been a steady increase in the numbers of sunspots, a trend that has accelerated in the past century, just at the time when the Earth has been getting warmer.

The data suggests that changing solar activity is influencing in some way the global climate causing the world to get warmer.

Over the past 20 years, however, the number of sunspots has remained roughly constant, yet the average temperature of the Earth has continued to increase.

This is put down to a human-produced greenhouse effect caused by the combustion of fossil fuels.

This latest analysis shows that the Sun has had a considerable indirect influence on the global climate in the past, causing the Earth to warm or chill, and that mankind is amplifying the Sun's latest attempt to warm the Earth.

Excerpted from.
news.bbc.co.uk...

You have shown to have "some" knowledge in atmospheric climate, but don't seem to have any idea of the impact the Oceans have on climate, or that the Oceans are one of the major forces behind the Earth's climate.

Oceans & Climate
The Ocean's Role In Climate & Climate Change
Michael S. McCartney, Senior Scientist
Physical Oceanography Department
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

December 1996 � The past decade has brought rapid scientific progress in understanding the role of the ocean in climate and climate change. The ocean is involved in the climate system primarily because it stores heat, water, and carbon dioxide, moves them around on the earth, and exchanges these and other elements with the atmosphere. Three important premises of the oceans and climate story are:

* The ocean has a huge storage capacity for heat, water, and carbon dioxide compared to the atmosphere.
* Global scale oceanic circulation transports heat, water, and carbon dioxide horizontally over large distances at rates comparable to atmospheric rates.
* The ocean and atmosphere exchange as much heat, water, and carbon dioxide between them as each transports horizontally.

The ocean and atmosphere are coupled�their "mean states," evolution, and variability are linked. Ocean currents are primarily a response to exchanges of momentum, heat, and water vapor between ocean and atmosphere, and the resulting ocean circulation stores, redistributes, and releases these and other properties.

Excerpted from.
oceanusmag.whoi.edu...

You have also downplayed many times in the past the important role the Oceans play on this issue. You have gone so far as to state in the past something to the likes of "the North Atlantic current is driven by the winds, and the Earth's rotation, but hardly by salinity in water." This shows how much you know about this issue.


In fact, let me quote some of the things you have said.

According to Outland's implied knowledge
That is assuming that the climate will just get worse and worse and overwhelm us with a barrage of tsunamis, hurricanes, tornados, sudden glaciers... hey, this sounds like "Day After Tomorrow"! (gag) If you're expecting a near-future Hollywood-like cataclysmic global upheaval courtesy of Mother Nature, it's more likely to come in the form of an impact by a meteor or extreme coronal mass ejection rather than some added CO2 in the air and ocean salinity changes.

Excerpted from.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

According to the above you don't even know what role salinity plays on the ocean currents, and the role the ocean has on atmospheric climate. The oceans affect the atmosphere, and climate, not the other way around Outland. There is an interaction between the two, and it is true that winds do have "some effect" on "surface" currents in the oceans.

BTW, i have stated many times in the past "I don't expect" the same thing that is portrayed in the movie, neither do I think it will be that fast.

According to Outland
While some ocean currents may change course, slow, grow or pause altogether for various reasons, warm equatorial waters and atmospheric air currents will continue to flow towards the poles and then cycle back. The equator to pole heat distribution cycle (or "heat pump cycle") can only be stopped if equal heating OR equal cooling were imposed on the entire surface of the earth from pole to pole. The earth's rotation is another main factor, but if that suddenly stopped, we would be in much bigger trouble than just climatic change.

Excerpted from.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

According to the above and other responses from you, you think that even if "some ocean currents change" not much will happen to the climate. This is not the first time you completly ignore that the ocean currents, in this case the North Atlantic conveyor belt is the driving force for Europe's mild climate. If this current changes, Europe, parts of Canada and the US will suffer colder climate.

It is true that while there is a difference in temperatue between the poles and the ecuador, there will be a transfer of heat and currents will continue to exist. But the change in the salinity level and temperature of the oceans is what mainly affects the underwater currents, which are responsible for moving heat, absorbing and redistributing CO2 to the atmosphere. The melting in the poles is, and will continue to slow down and possibly stop the North Atlantic current. There will be a new conveyor belt but it won't go as far north as it does now, instead the new conveyor belt will be further down, greatly affecting the climate in the northern regions of the world, and moderately affecting the Ecuador until the Earth finds a balance once more.

I have also noted that you think too highly of yourself, proclaiming that your accurate weather predictions are better than NOAA's. I did find some irony in the post you made, by the smiley face at the end, which I quote below, but it also shows that you seem to have a God-complex issue.

BTW, I do not see anywhere that you predicted this hurricane season would be far above normal, on the contrary, you have kept saying it would be pretty much a normal season.

Outland's God-complex
And no... I don't read the Old Farmer's Almanac. My accuracy is typically better than theirs. ...or NOAA's for that fact. But hey... I could be wrong this time.

Excerpted from.
www.abovetopsecret.com...


What I have also noted is that you say it is true that climate does change, in that we agree and to an extent it is normal to happen. You are also at least willing to admit we are going throught some changes, but you say that humankind will survive and there is no need to worry. It is true that humankind will survive, but a lot of people will be greatly affected by these changes, and as we can see to what is happening around the world, they are getting worse, and this is where we disagree the most. But there is a need to be concerned about how the effects these changes we are seeing, are going to affect towns, cities and possibly entire civilizations within the next decade or so, maybe even less.

One last thing, i have given you a lot of data in other threads that corroborates what I have been saying, but you prefer not to pay any attention to that data, and continue trying to imply that the whole "doomsday scenario", as you call it, is an effort by some to link climate change and CO2. As i have said above and in other threads, CO2 is not the only human induced gas we are releasing into the oceans, and the atmosphere, along with chemicals.

In the following link i have shown you, using the same data you gave, that you are mistaken in your assertion that the sun is the mayor force behind the rise on global temperature in the past 20 years.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You have to look at the whole picture... Let me make an analogy so that perhaps you can begin to understand....a doctor doesn't give results of a medical exam on a person by looking only at the color of the skin, but by conducting a series of examinations of the whole body, including the organs of the body. The Earth, like the human body, depends on the balance of its "whole ecosystem", including the oceans, and we humans are greatly affected by the Earth's entire ecosystem.

[edit on 22-9-2004 by Muaddib]

�Scuse me while I let out some gas, Outland. (*Censored sound-effect*)..., Ahh... Here�s a link to a report I think you should read. I found this link on Teheran Times just to annoy those warmongers who think it�s more important to go to war than dealing with this. But you will find this report in plenty of other places as well.

From: Arctic ice to melt in summer this century unless greenhouse gases curbed: report

The Arctic ice cover will completely disappear in summer by the end of this century unless carbon dioxide emissions are significantly reduced, according to a scientific study to be released next week.

"The big melt has begun," said Jennifer Morgan, director of the Climate Change Campaign for the environmental organization WWF, which published excerpts of the upcoming Arctic Climate Impact Assessment (ACIA) report.

The Arctic ice melt will cause sea levels to rise and could lead to the extinction of some species, such as polar bears, it said. Commissioned by the Arctic Council and compiled by more than 250 scientists, the report concludes that "climate change is happening in the Arctic and that it will get worse unless emissions of carbon dioxide are cut."

Now you can shoot, I got my helmet on...