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Osama Bin Laden Killed in U.S. Raid

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posted on May, 3 2011 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by HalLangerhans
One thing about the official story that makes no sense to me is the helicopters. Before I go into detail I'll make it clear that I have no superior knowledge about helicopters, so this is purely speculation on my part.

The official story tells us that 2 helicopters(never heard a mention of what type) flew 24 men to the compound and attempted to land inside the compound. One helicopter encountered a problem and crash landed. The helicopters we can assume had 2 pilots each, who would have stayed with the choppers ready to go, while the 24 man team began their raid. So that brings us up to 28 men total. Both helicopters most likely held 12 men each plus the pilots, so 14 men per chopper. They killed and captured Bin Laden's body, and at some point burned the crashed chopper, before they all boarded the remaining chopper, and left the site. What I don't understand is that it's common knowledge that helicopters are heavily affected by weight, because if they are overloaded they can't generate the lift to leave the ground and stay in the air. So we now have 28 men + a dead Bin Laden, and all the gear they took in, and whatever else they may have carried out. Wouldn't the helicopter have been too overloaded to even leave the ground? Again I have no superior knowledge of helicopters, and no one in the media has said what kind of choppers these were, or what size they were. With so little information it is my opinion, that the team couldn't have gotten off the ground carrying 29 men + gear. That in fact the raid never occurred the way they are telling us, unless they had flown in another chopper, which again they haven't told us.

Thoughts?

Anyone have any kind of knowledge that could disprove my speculation?
edit on 3-5-2011 by HalLangerhans because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-5-2011 by HalLangerhans because: (no reason given)


No specific knowledge on helos myself, but you do have a damn good point. I mean that one chopper would have the carry ALL the SEALS on the strike team, all their equipment, OBL's body, whatever intel they seized, PLUS the 2 pilots from the helo they torched. On one helicopter.

That would have to be one BIG-ASS helicopter. Nah, the story is BS. The whole thing. they're "Jessica Lynch"-ing us. are we really supposed to believe that OBL was just chillin' in a mansion outside islamabad, and NO ONE KNEW? spec forces and CIA are crawling all over that area, have been for years, but they missed the giant compound being built? predator drones in the air, signal intel, electronic intel, satellites, local snitches, the US Govt. wants us to believe that OBL was hiding in plain sight, and everyone just missed it.


I'm actually insulted that they think we're all that #ing stupid.
edit on 3-5-2011 by dragonseeker because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 3 2011 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd
reply to post by Tosskey
 


Wow, another government mouthpiece. Trying to say that terrorists aren't wanting to hit us as it is, but if the government releases photos, they will. How freaking stupid. IF THEY COULD HIT US, THEY WOULD. Stop acting like we're stupid, and saying the same thing over and over will eventually lead to people not questioning this BS event.


All some kid in Afghanistan has to do is pick up his AK-47 and aim it at a Coalition service member. Perhaps seeing OBL's face ripped off from a bullet will spur him to do so.

You think people are born terrorists and that nothing sways their mind to pick up a weapon, or strap on a suicide vest?

Point is, releasing the photos COULD have some effect. And it's good to see that they are atleast weighing the options, and not just hastily releasing the photos and possibly being cavalier towards the loss of life on service members.


Are you that disillusioned that you don't care if Americans are put at an increased risk, just so you can have 'proof' that OBL is dead?
edit on 3-5-2011 by Tosskey because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 04:32 PM
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Funny how Americans think two wrongs make a right. Sad really. RIP all who suffered from these childish acts of violence.


SMR

posted on May, 3 2011 @ 04:38 PM
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CNN has been reporting that OBL was not armed and "didn't hold up his hands and surrender"
In no way am I saying what was done in the end wrong, but I have to wonder what really went on. Did they just take orders to heart and "shoot to kill" ?



U.S. forces then moved upstairs where they found bin Laden in a room with a woman believed to be his wife -- both unarmed, Carney said. She rushed the U.S. forces and was shot in the leg but not killed. Bin Laden resisted and was shot and killed, Carney said.


So why not knock his ass out and take him alive ?
Would having him alive be worse in the long run than just killing him ?



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by Mallik
 


Please don't use this as an example or an excuse to generalize about all Americans anymore than you would like for someone to use ____ to generalize about all __whatever you are___. That's just ignorant from the start and part of exactly what got this world into the mess it's in today.



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by HalLangerhans
One thing about the official story that makes no sense to me is the helicopters. Before I go into detail I'll make it clear that I have no superior knowledge about helicopters, so this is purely speculation on my part.

The official story tells us that 2 helicopters(never heard a mention of what type) flew 24 men to the compound and attempted to land inside the compound.


Where are you getting the 2 helicopter story from? Everything I have read and heard says there were 4 helicopters, each one carrying a 6 man team.


Osama bin Laden's final night began with a group of four helicopters slicing through the night skies over Pakistan, making their way toward Islamabad from a U.S. base in northern Afghanistan.

www.time.com...




ABBOTTABAD, Pakistan — Four helicopters swooped in early Monday and killed Osama bin Laden in a fiery American raid on his fortress-like compound in a Pakistani town that is home to three army regiments.

www.navytimes.com...


edit on 3-5-2011 by Aggie Man because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by Tosskey
Are you that disillusioned that you don't care if Americans are put at an increased risk, just so you can have 'proof' that OBL is dead?


No, I'm just tired of our government lying to us. Bin Laden likely died years ago due to renal failure. To me, it's completely inconceivable that they would have the opportunity to take him alive, but shot him unarmed in the head, and dumped the body of the world's most wanted man in the ocean within hours. So insanely unbelievable to me, and it's mind boggling that anybody buys this. And since when have we started walking on egg shells to not upset religious extremists? When it suits our government to do so I guess. It hasn't stopped them from showing images of dead muslims before. Personally, the fact that they dumped the body within hours, when according to Islamic beliefs they have the setting of two suns, is too much to just brush off. I don't believe this, and I'm sick of being lied to.



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by 000063
Facial recognition, DNA match. That's enough for any court of law.


When did they do this, from what they're saying, once he got up out of bed, unarmed, he lost most of his face. And for the DNA match, all we have is their word. There won't be any court hearing, and if there was, disposing of the body before ANY investigation would be seen in a VERY bad light, would it not?
Once you assume that the disposal was to hide evidence, yes. Operative word, "assume". Similar methods have been used to ID other terrorist leaders: why should Osama be any different?


Our government has lied to us, time and again. I'm not gonna start believing them simply because I want to, like a wife with an unfaithful husband. This time they're telling the truth...
Poisoning the well, generalizations. Yes, the US gov't lies. (I'm not American.) Assuming that everything they tell you is a lie, without evidence of such, isn't very productive. The best lies are built on truth, which means they have to tell the truth at some point or another.



Best not to make it worse, then.
We can't make it worse. They want to hit us, if anything it would be helpful for them to be furious, they would be more apt to screw up and make a mistake.
If you're in a situation where something can't be made worse, you're screwed already.


I'm not saying that's what happened, I'm saying that would be the best story for BOTH parties. There is no proof, they got rid of the evidence one way or the other.
Theories, not evidence. Got it.



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by 27jdUm, they didn't dump Hussein into the sea a couple hours after they caught him. There was plenty of time to verify they caught him. They paraded him around for weeks, they could have done the same with Bin Laden, but, instead they just popped him in the head and chest. SEALs can't subdue and capture an unarmed old man?
I dunno. Early reports say he was fighting back, currently they say he was unarmed. There's been a lot of confusion.

Oh, and Hussein had plenty of body doubles, hence the DNA. They caught him alive. For whatever reason, OBL was killed, and burial practices give 24 hours.



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by Mallik
 


Please don't use this as an example or an excuse to generalize about all Americans anymore than you would like for someone to use ____ to generalize about all __whatever you are___. That's just ignorant from the start and part of exactly what got this world into the mess it's in today.


Nope it's the opposite of ignorance. Ofc it should be obvious that ofc there are Americans who do not support killing unarmed people and retaliation in a childish manner, but as a nation, this is what America and the majority of Americans signal to the rest of the world. Deal with it. Stop denying and defending it. Thats the whole problem. Ignorance.
edit on 3-5-2011 by Mallik because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by Tosskey
Are you that disillusioned that you don't care if Americans are put at an increased risk, just so you can have 'proof' that OBL is dead?


No, I'm just tired of our government lying to us. Bin Laden likely died years ago due to renal failure. To me, it's completely inconceivable that they would have the opportunity to take him alive, but shot him unarmed in the head, and dumped the body of the world's most wanted man in the ocean within hours. So insanely unbelievable to me, and it's mind boggling that anybody buys this. And since when have we started walking on egg shells to not upset religious extremists? When it suits our government to do so I guess. It hasn't stopped them from showing images of dead muslims before. Personally, the fact that they dumped the body within hours, when according to Islamic beliefs they have the setting of two suns, is too much to just brush off. I don't believe this, and I'm sick of being lied to.


Except you have no proof that you're being lied to. Hell you believe that he 'likely' died years ago to renal failure despite no evidence of that either.

Why hasn't any Al Qaeda leadership come out to confirm that he isn't dead, or that he's been dead for years?


I guess it suits you to believe what you want, when it suits your disillusioned feelings.


Personally, I can't say FOR SURE that he's been killed - but it seems like the most likely scenario, at this point.



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by HalLangerhans
Anyone have any kind of knowledge that could disprove my speculation?
edit on 3-5-2011 by HalLangerhans because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-5-2011 by HalLangerhans because: (no reason given)
For one thing, there were four choppers, two of which were backups. When the one crashed, it was destroyed and the backup was called in.



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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'obama's leadership' .. 'obama's got these fools scared out of their minds' .. you seem to be living in some fantasy land.. 'obama' is poised to end up as one of the worst if not the worst 'president' in U.S. history .. you talk about Bush being dumb .. this guy makes Bush look like a rocket scientist with all his gaffes and utter lack of knowledge or expertise in anything .. 'obama' has been the punchline of a very bad joke(this presidency)


Originally posted by LosLobos

Originally posted by Hot_Wings
So lets recap…




Yea lets recap....

The entire middle east is over throwing their leaders. You actually think Pakistan wants to be known as the regime that hides a murderer? I have no doubt they knew exactly where he was all these years. They were protecting him. But recent events made them rethink their position. Protect one man or risk being overthrown. The UN, with Obama's leadership, is also rethinking the global scheme of things. Play nice or get a bomb up your arse.

The choice is clear.

Obama got these fools scared out of their minds. Scared straight in other words.



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by Mallik

Nope it's the opposite of ignorance. Ofc it should be obvious that ofc there are Americans who do not support killing unarmed people and retaliation in a childish manner, but as a nation, this is what America and the majority of Americans signal to the rest of the world. Deal with it. Stop denying and defending it. Thats the whole problem. Ignorance.
edit on 3-5-2011 by Mallik because: (no reason given)


Get off your high horse. America is FAR from perfect, but what country is?

And justice against the leader of a terrorist group, that has claimed thousands of lives over the past few decades (even if indirectly) is childish? Give me a break.

I'm sure taking him alive was the highest priority. We don't have all the details to claim they were wrong in shooting him. Either way, this was the best lead on OBL since 2001. Some kind of action had to be taken, and I sure as hell am not shedding any tears for him being killed in the raid, are you?



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by Mallik
 

Your statement here

Originally posted by Mallik

Nope it's the opposite of ignorance. Ofc it should be obvious that ofc there are Americans who do not support killing unarmed people and retaliation in a childish manner, but as a nation, this is what America and the majority of Americans signal to the rest of the world. Deal with it. Stop denying and defending it. Thats the whole problem. Ignorance.
edit on 3-5-2011 by Mallik because: (no reason given)


bears little resemblance to what you said here:


Originally posted by Mallik
Funny how Americans think two wrongs make a right. Sad really. RIP all who suffered from these childish acts of violence.


The rest of the world is not a saint. Not by any stretch. Not even your country, whatever that may be. We all share the blame.
edit on 5/3/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by ~Lucidity


Originally posted by Mallik
Funny how Americans think two wrongs make a right. Sad really. RIP all who suffered from these childish acts of violence.



Pathetic that he sympathizes with OBL and his cronies that were killed in the raid.

And he tries to cast judgement on Americans.

Disgraceful.
edit on 3-5-2011 by Tosskey because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 05:01 PM
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I don't cheer on murderers like you scum. Keep defending your nasty murderers ways by pointing fingers elsewhere. Disgusting.

Keep bombing countries unable to defend themselves and shooting unarmed people, i'm sure you'll get rid of terror that way you freaking Einsteins. LOL
edit on 3-5-2011 by Mallik because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by 000063
Theories, not evidence. Got it.


Right, all across the board. It's anybody's guess where the truth is, but NONE of us know for sure. The government could have proven it, but they chose to dump the body, whatever. I personally believe he died of renal failure, which he was supposed to have had. You don't just keep on living with is disease, especially without access to proper facilities. And, for your info, Islam gives the "setting of two suns" to bury the dead.

If anything good comes of this, perhaps they'll finally pull out of that region, and stop spending money we don't have there. I'll go along with your story, if it means we pull the HELL out...



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by Tosskey
Are you that disillusioned that you don't care if Americans are put at an increased risk, just so you can have 'proof' that OBL is dead?


No, I'm just tired of our government lying to us. Bin Laden likely died years ago due to renal failure. To me, it's completely inconceivable
Ah, that's the problem. You can't accept alternatives to your theory, so you deem them impossible.


that they would have the opportunity to take him alive, but shot him unarmed in the head, and dumped the body of the world's most wanted man in the ocean within hours.
As required by Muslim custom, yes. Burial in 24 hours.


So insanely unbelievable to me, and it's mind boggling that anybody buys this.
See, if you denigrate people who disagree with you, you're not being objective. People can't even agree on pizza toppings, much less massive gov't conspiracies.


And since when have we started walking on egg shells to not upset religious extremists? When it suits our government to do so I guess.
I like how you think the gov't showing a modicum of respect for a fallen foe is evidence of a conspiracy. It says a lot about your mentality.


It hasn't stopped them from showing images of dead muslims before. Personally, the fact that they dumped the body within hours, when according to Islamic beliefs they have the setting of two suns, is too much to just brush off. I don't believe this, and I'm sick of being lied to.
They had DNA, Saudi Arabia didn't want it. What should they have done? Bury him somewhere in America?

Again, you're assuming you're being lied to when you have no proof of said lie.
edit on 2011/5/3 by 000063 because: +



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by Tosskey
Why hasn't any Al Qaeda leadership come out to confirm that he isn't dead, or that he's been dead for years?


Because, it suits them much more to say he was martyred and killed by infidels and use that as a rallying cry, rather than natural causes. Why would they want to let on that "Allah" let their champion die of kidney failure?



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