It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by MegaMind
Originally posted by grey580
Valid answers to this equation are both 1 and 9.
The equation is ambiguous.
And you all need to recognize this.
minhauong.blogspot.com...edit on 7-5-2011 by SkyEvolved because: (no reason given)edit on 7-5-2011 by SkyEvolved because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by ASeeker343
reply to post by Honor93
ps: i never said to ignore PEDMAS or BEDMAS because they are the same and they are relevant ... what i am saying is the juxtaposition of the "2" next to the brackets/parenthesis has the SAME order sequence as exponents, period.
Honor93 I am curious to your response to the PHD math professor Grey580 posted. Also, I checked your oakroadsystems link again, and the reason I didnt respond to it or reference it at all is because it doesnt mention your "juxtaposition rule" in this form at all, unless I am just missing it, in which case please direct me more precisely. I understand the order of operations. Parentheses take precedence over exponents which take precedence over multiplication and division which take precedence over addition and subtraction. I understand that you have been taught that multiplication by juxtaposition takes precedence, not saying I dont believe you, I am just failing to see any evidene for your claim (aside from the purplemath link and the AMS link, although that was very ambiguous in itself). Any other source I have seen defines a*(b) = a(b) = a*b. Implied multiplication is the same as signed multiplication. I have never heard that multiplication by juxtaposition jumps to the same order of precedence as exponents. That seems ridiculous to me. It is not an exponent, nothing is being taken to a power, its just multiplication. And dont just say you learned it back when you were getting honors in math 40+ years ago. Not saying I doubt it at all, its just a very unsatisfactory ruling on the subject.
Perhaps this is part of the problem. You were educated before computers and calculators were in use, so perhaps conventions and notations have changed since then. Because computers and calculators are used to the extent that they are today, it would make sense for the math taught to be consistent with that. It wouldn't make sense to teach students one convention that will be at odds with convention they will use in electronic devices. It appears to me that both answers can be interpreted as valid, but I have seen very little proof of the "juxtapositon rule", and aside from your posts, nothing that would put it on the order of exponents.
Originally posted by smallpeeps
It would be such a weird synchronicity if a similar thread was bouncing on some other domain, and yet neither thread mentioned the other!
Oh fnord the love of God! Haha.
No but serious, OP's Casio does maths differently. You guys are snobbering all over the place. But I bet on that other domain, they'd be even dumber. Haha, math sucks but its fun. Like flagellation or tattoos.
Originally posted by hypervalentiodine
I honestly cannot believe that this thread has gotten to 24 pages.
To the people who are saying the answer is 1:
Multiplication and division take the same precedence and where both exist in a problem such as this, the operations must be performed from left to right. For the answer to be 1, you would need to force the multiplication to occur first by placing it within an additional set of parenthesis as follows:
As it is written however, the division must occur first and hence the answer is 9. If you don't believe me then please refer to MATLAB, C+, C++, python, Google calculator, Wolfram alpha, etc. Alternatively, there are a number of threads in physics forums that you are free to google.
PEDMAS or BEDMAS or whatever it is you guys are using is misleading in the sense that it somehow implies a difference in the priority of division/multiplication and addition/subtraction. In reality, division and multiplication are considered the same thing, as are addition and subtraction. Division is in fact just multiplication of the reciprocal and subtraction is similarly considered to be the addition of a negative number. In fact, you very really see a division sign in math past high school level.
In any case, the point is that addition/subtraction and multiplication/division have the same priority and should be treated as such.
Originally posted by canselmi
See last example at:
"even though multiplication and division are at the same level (so the left-to-right rule should apply), parentheses outrank division. That is, multiplication that is indicated by placement against parentheses (or brackets, etc) is "stronger" than "regular" multiplication.
Or an even better way to look at it:
You first simplify the expression by using the distributive property. Therefore you get:
And the answer is 1.
edit on 17-5-2011 by canselmi because: added the distributive property exampleedit on 17-5-2011 by canselmi because: (no reason given)