Nato strike 'kills Saif al-Arab Gaddafi', Libya says

page: 9
51
<< 6  7  8    10  11  12 >>

log in

join

posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 10:20 PM
link   

Originally posted by soleprobe

Originally posted by AndrewSwann
I still dont see why NATO has the right to kill a world leader. Seems like someone would have to vote on this.


Yes... What is a North Atlantic Treaty Organization doing bombing countries and trying to assassinate leaders in the south Atlantic? Seems to be way outside of their original mandate.


There is no need to kill him. They do have international trials that are fair. NATO officials have denied that this was an attempt to kill Qaddafi, it is hard to believe that the officials responsible weren't hoping to.

The U.S. Senator Graham told CNN that it was time to "to cut the head of the snake off, go to Tripoli, start bombing Qaddafi's inner circle, their compounds, their military headquarters."

Those words sound like death to me.




posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 10:20 PM
link   

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
reply to post by stumason
 


That's the thing, though. They arent interested in actual evidence. They just attack anyone who presents information that contradicts their pre-determined ideas as 'disinfo agents'. Generally, I think those sorts of accusations are actually projection.

Personally, I'm still up in the air about who and what to trust in this Libya situtation, so I appreciate the info you are posting. But some here have already stated they 'know they are right', so clearly they have no use for debate and only post here to affirm their admittedly pre-determined opinions.

And now that I have posted in support of you, I can be relegated to 'disinfo agent shill' so they can ignore me too.

Too bad out-of-hand dismissing someone as 'disinfo' isn't against the TandC. Actually, I thought it was, but no one seems to enforce it.


The one person who is claiming to know they are right is stumason. Your sarcastic comment about you expecting to now be called a disinfo agent is ridiculous. Your the kind of person that stands around shouting "fight! fight! fight! aren't you?

Why don't you look back to where the attacking started? I was attacked for thinking it sick that people would celebrate the death of innocent children. Do you agree with Stumason? Are you saying that it is not sick that his grandchildren were murdered and his son, when it is Gaddafi they are after?



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 10:23 PM
link   
reply to post by bsbray11
 


Not really oppresive? C'mon!

And I suppose the Chinese just give dissidents a gentle ticking off and ask them to not do it again too?

Next we'll be hearing that Kim Jon Il hands out fluffy bunnies to every Korean child and Mugabe is just misunderstood....



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 10:25 PM
link   
do unto others as you would have them do unto you..
where was gadaffi convicted,,..
where were his children and their children convicted?

might as will kill the jews
their parents killed christ eh..
they will just kill the next christ too I guess eh?

coming to a despot near you..
like the ones in the whitehouse and at 10 downing street
and the ones who's tax dollars fund this kind of child killing sort of thing
I guess if you have a priest in the familly LOOK OUT

KIm JonG ill is only in power because the east (like rumsfeld selling him his nuclear stuff) supported him
just like mao pol pot the shaw saddam HITLER stalin...et freaking cetera

edit on 30-4-2011 by Danbones because: (no reason given)
edit on 30-4-2011 by Danbones because: (no reason given)
edit on 30-4-2011 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 10:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by HardbeatAcolyte
I am against Gaddafi, and think it is dishonest to whitewash him as a saint while demonizing the west, but this is definitely tragic. No one on either side of the conflict deserves this. I guess things like this tend to happen in war, though (and to me, this Libya conflict isn't really anything less than a war by a different name). This certainly doesn't justify it at all, but I don't think this is the first time that noncombatants and children have been killed in a war. I hope that this war is over as soon as possible, to minimize casualties on all sides, but especially civilians.

Also, I'm fairly sure stumason isn't a disinfo agent. He's contributed a lot to ATS, and I for one respect him for it. Calling him a disinfo agent, even if you totally disagree with what he says, is just weaseling out of replying to his posts' content. We're here to discuss the matters at hand, not to accuse others of being paid shills

Also, don't you think if they were do employ disinfo, they would do it elsewhere where people are generally far less skeptical?
edit on 30/4/11 by HardbeatAcolyte because: (no reason given)


Nobody is calling Gadaffi a saint. You cannot lead without some blood on your hands. I am fair sure that he is not a disinfo agent as I have checked out his other threads and posts, and I will restate that I find his opinions very informative. However, he doesn't leave much room for others opinions does he?

As for wouldnt disinfo agents go elsewhere? Um? No. They don't need to confuse the masses on facebook, its already done
They need to be here to make us avoid the truth and seem even nuttier then we should.
edit on 30-4-2011 by moonpie86 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 10:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by moonpie86
The one person who is claiming to know they are right is stumason.


I am the only one offering facts and evidence, it would seem.... All we're hearing from you is hyperbole and conjecture. I was made to go and dig up video's (which as predicted have been ignored and glossed over by you lot) to back up my side of the story. You guys have offered nothing.


Originally posted by moonpie86
Your sarcastic comment about you expecting to now be called a disinfo agent is ridiculous.


Not at all, some here have form.


Originally posted by moonpie86
Why don't you look back to where the attacking started? I was attacked for thinking it sick that people would celebrate the death of innocent children. Do you agree with Stumason? Are you saying that it is not sick that his grandchildren were murdered and his son, when it is Gaddafi they are after?


Shall we look at this post you claim I attacked you in? Nice attempt at spin, but we can still go back and read what was said, you know. Read the blow and kindly point out where did I "attack" you? And also, you misrepresent your claims about kids being killed as "sick", because that comment was about the gunfire. You are trying to paint me as someone who is happy kids got killed and I attacked you personally, neither of which is the case and seemed to have forgotten that everything is written down....

This is our first exchange of posts in this thread.




Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by moonpie86
Im not sure if this link has been posted already. For those who are asking if this really happened. Look at some more facts. Earlier that day Gaddafi said he was ready for negotiations if NATO would stop the planes.

TRUCE OFFER

*sighs*

After the airstrike, apparently gunshots of celebration were let off. SICK!



Ok, firstly, this is like the 10th offer of a truce from him while continuing with his offensives after the suppsoed "ceasefire". Also, while this offer was being put on the table, Government ministers were quoted as saying the rebels in Misrata had 48hrs to lay down their arms or face "full fire" from the Libyan troops.

Secondly, the gunfire was heard in Tripoli by his supporters who have since gathered outside his compound to "protest". Not sure what you're hinting at with the "sick" comment.


edit on 30/4/11 by stumason because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 10:33 PM
link   
Lockerbie was a frame up

Lockerbie, 20 years on: Behind the frame up of Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi

links.org.au...
so labeling Gadaffi or Lybia anything after that is
well....

especially by those who CAN"T look in the mirror, AND keep a straight face

the US and the WEST are there to steal the oil and create a central bank to subjugate the people like they are in every country that is artificially starving for oil and who has a privately central bank...
a bunch of DEBT SLAVES
anything else is bullpoo
edit on 30-4-2011 by Danbones because: added LINK
edit on 30-4-2011 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 10:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by soleprobe

Originally posted by AndrewSwann
I still dont see why NATO has the right to kill a world leader. Seems like someone would have to vote on this.


Yes... What is a North Atlantic Treaty Organization doing bombing countries and trying to assassinate leaders in the south Atlantic? Seems to be way outside of their original mandate.


Libya is not in the South Atlantic.

It is in North Africa, off the coast of the Mediterranean sea.


Yes... you are correct: What is a North Atlantic Treaty Organization doing bombing countries and trying to assassinate leaders off the coast of the Mediterranean sea?



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 10:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by bsbray11
This is sad to hear. Anyone can look up statistics for Libya before all of this happened, and it really was not that bad of a country, and compared to the US, and considering a different culture, not really oppressive to its people at all. Newlyweds got over $50,000 automatically to buy a new home, several thousand for each child, no major taxes, etc.



Fascinating information.

Can you point me towards its source?



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 10:39 PM
link   
To take a break from the pissing match going on here to actually bring in an update . . .

Aljazeera English: Libya Live Blog

NATO releases a press release:


NATO continued its precision strikes against Qadhafi regime military installations in Tripoli overnight, including striking a known command and control building in the Bab al-Azizya neighbourhood shortly after 1800 GMT Saturday evening.

"All NATO’s targets are military in nature and have been clearly linked to the Qadhafi regime’s systematic attacks on the Libyan population and populated areas. We do not target individuals,” said Lieutenant-General Charles Bouchard, Commander of NATO’s Operation Unified Protector.

"The strike was part of NATO’s coherent strategy to disrupt and destroy the command and control of those forces which have been attacking civilians.

"I am aware of unconfirmed media reports that some of Qadhafi’s family members may have been killed,” Lieutenant-General Bouchard said. “We regret all loss of life, especially the innocent civilians being harmed as a result of the ongoing conflict. NATO is fulfilling its UN mandate to stop and prevent attacks against civilians with precision and care - unlike Qadhafi’s forces, which are causing so much suffering."


There is still no confirmation regarding the deaths.



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 10:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by wonderworld
So if Gaddafi’s son Saif al-Arab joined the Rebels, why was he supposedly at Gaddafi’s compound?


I recall that was reported by some random blogs, but I never saw it reported by any major news sources.

Am I wrong?



I knew they intended to kill Gaddafi but this seems to be a mysterious set of circumstances surrounding the deaths of his son and Grand-Children.


mysterious how? I mean, if they were all in the same building, it seems pretty clear cut.


I doubt the credibility of the news reports such as Saif al-Arab, one of Gaddafi's sons, defects to opposition, Gaddafi's youngest son, Saif al-Arab, joins uprising. It was reported in many places in February. I didnt see any major news coverage of it. I don’t see any benefit of rumors like that. I suppose I’m more concerned that Gaddafi wanted to negotiate or have a truce and instead his family is dead. That is SO wrong.

The mystery I wonder about is mainly why were kids in a hot spot to begin with. They know we have Missiles that go through any bunkers, not old school anymore and Gaddafi isnt dumb.



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 10:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by stumason

Me neither, but I find myself having to over and over everytime some idiot claims that Gaddafi is the umblemished child of God himself and never shot at anyone or had anyone killed.


I dont think anyone actually has said that. Many of us in fact have said we are no personal fans of his. And yet we can still be opposed to injustice done not only to him, but the people of Libya whose country we are in the process of destroying for the economic gain of not "America" but some group of multinational bandits who will, once they install their pro-corporate dictator, get "contracts" to rebuild what they caused to be destroyed on the dime of the people they caused to be bombed, while others pillage the countrys oil.

But feel free to link to the comment. I may have just missed it.


Originally posted by stumason
I've posted dozens of video's in earlier threads about Libya in response to claims of "show me" and yet it makes no difference.


And I have seen dozens of videos. Not one of which contained a crowd of "uprisers" or "rebels" of more than a hundred at most. While at the same time, I have seen thousands of people, filling a huge square, in support of Gaddafi. A crowd the size of the Egyptian mob, in support of their leaders. Not the rebels.




Originally posted by stumason
Now, that is more than enough to get you started. No doubt you will either ignore it or screm "propoganda" though so my time has essentially been wasted.


No, its not time wasted supporting your own claim. I do it all the time and get ignored. Its not about making people agree with you, its about presenting an actual argument regardless whether you change someones mind. I have to say, several of those videos DO strike me as pure propaganda. Im not saying this as someone naive as to war videos. Ive been watching footage of various wars for decades. Ive been watching Africa and the Middle East most of my life, thanks to our policies there. Have you not seen footage of the conflicts between Israel and Palestine? And you dont notice a complete lack of the "other team" in these?

In the first video, beneath the footage you see little headlines. Of things we know didnt really happen. At that time, they were still trying to make this "uprising" look popular, like Egypt, and they claimed there were people marching in the streets everywhere. Were there? We sure never saw them. Or really heard much more about them.

Of all the videos, most of which show a hundred or maybe two hundred at best, this one is the only one that shows a large, (thousands) of people.



But the person speaking is claiming that there is massive shelling going on in Tripoli. Was there? "Death everywhere shelling even in the alleys." Ok. Soooo...................why no video of it. We see a large number of people..................walking rather calmly. Its not even obvious from the footage what they are doing. (ie, there is no clear sign they are actually rebels, in that there are no signs, we cannot hear them, etc.) which doesnt mean they are NOT rebels, maybe they are. But listen to the guy in the background, claiming the whole Libyan population could be wiped out in hours the shelling is so heavy. There isnt even smoke on the horizon.

You seem to think that people are ignoring or discounting these videos without watching them. Or not paying good attention, or analyzing them. I honestly am. And I am willing to be wrong. I just dont see anything presented where the pictures match the reports in terms of intensity, or...........in some cases.........where they match the reporting at all. As in this one.

Although a will say, whoever they are, it is the most impressive NUMBER of people I have seen other than those gathered to support Gaddafi. I just wish there were someway to identify who they are and whose side they are actually on.

edit on 30-4-2011 by Illusionsaregrander because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 10:45 PM
link   
oh look
New banking regs in Libya...
just like KENNEDY.
I guess Gadaffi has to go
He was standing up to the bankers

well I guess Kennedy had to go...
He stood up to the bankers too
he minted coins

After all
bankers know best
and your butt is pretty too


The Government is in the process of preparing a financial sector reform program. Recent legislation setting corporate governance standards for financial institutions makes progress towards better management and greater operational independence of public banks. However, Libyan public banks still lack management structures supported by skills in critical areas like credit, investment, risk management, and information and control systems. The new banking law reinforces the independence of the Central Bank of Libya (CBL) and offers a legal framework for regulating banking activities, even if some provisions call for improvement. Despite progress brought by the new banking Law that specifies and limits its duties and responsibilities, the CBL remains the owner of the public banks, with the associated potential conflict of interest between ownership and regulation.

Financial sector reform has also progressed with partial interest rate liberalization. Interest rates have been liberalized on deposits, while a lending rate ceiling has been set above the discount rate. The Libyan Stock Exchange, established in 2007, is the first exchange of its kind in the country.

As of 13 March 2011, Libya Oil Holdings has had its €38m stake in Irish exploration firm Circle Oil frozen on foot of a European Union order that's been put in place to put pressure on the Gaddafi regime.[12]

en.wikipedia.org...

PS
all that OIL FROZEN on the NORTH SLOPE and in the BAKKUN (sp) field in the US
No wonder the US is paying HUGE for their oil
its frozen too
JUST LIKE GADAFFI'S OIL AND MONEY
edit on 30-4-2011 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 10:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by bsbray11
This is sad to hear. Anyone can look up statistics for Libya before all of this happened, and it really was not that bad of a country, and compared to the US, and considering a different culture, not really oppressive to its people at all. Newlyweds got over $50,000 automatically to buy a new home, several thousand for each child, no major taxes, etc.



Fascinating information.

Can you point me towards its source?


Wow, Ive never been interested in Gaddafi much before this war started, oops no fly zone mission. If he really gave all newlyweds 50 grand to buy a house, several thousand for each child and no taxes I'm interested too.

Not that I believe anything Gaddafi says but it would be really weird if he was right and the Rebels were actually al-Qaeda like he says. Hard to believe, I know. Nothing surprises me.



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 10:54 PM
link   
This is scary folks. I feel as if this move from "NATO" has made my family a direct target of retaliatory attacks. I don't like it one bit. We, here in the US should REALLY be thinking of what's to come for the sake of the ones we love and beyond.

Of course Libya has the ability to launch a strike against us.... they have science too. To deny this is ignorant.... we should all be fending for ourselves now that TPTB have made the situation as such.

It's bad news, I know. But really....... no bueno!



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 10:55 PM
link   
reply to post by wonderworld
 


Yeah... they happen to be human also. This is not good. I wish all the best!



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 10:59 PM
link   
the people who are making this
"event"
the "brought to you by.."
they ( and their children)
are NOT on the battle field
but I bet everyone else
were, are, or will be...

(they were not on the battlefield in WW1 or 11 either, nor in any of the police actions, regime changes,,,etc)



edit on 30-4-2011 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 11:02 PM
link   
reply to post by Danbones
 


Wow, what a weird twist this is, Gaddafi, the stock market and as of 13 March 2011, Libya Oil Holdings has had its €38m stake in Irish exploration firm Circle Oil frozen on foot of a European Union order that's been put in place to put pressure on the Gaddafi regime.

This sums it up for me. Thanks for adding this!



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 11:03 PM
link   
To kill the family members of a leader in dispute, how is that the right thing? What if someone killed Obama's children because they wanted him out of office? This entire Libya endeavor, I wish someone would stop. It is horrific, has no just cause for the US to be engaged and shames our country.



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 11:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by stumason
. I notice everyone dodges my comments about the Abu Salim prison massacre, ot the executions on State TV of dissidents, or his historic aiding of terrorists around the world.


These executions? About which the reporting agency says this?

english.aljazeera.net...


Al Jazeera has received pictures that purportedly show Libyan army officers killed for refusing to fire on the rebels, evidence of how Gaddafi deals with "traitors".

It is claimed the soldiers refused to shoot rebels in the mountainous region west of the capital, Tripoli. The pictures were sent to Al Jazeera by a rebel group in the area.

A survivor of the killings says the men were rounded-up, their legs tied before being shot in the head or back from close range.

It is impossible to independently verify the authenticity of the video.


THEY dont sound too certain about its veracity, why should we?





top topics
 
51
<< 6  7  8    10  11  12 >>

log in

join