What does Natural Born really mean?

reply to post by dawnstar


Good interpretation.

It's fact that the Founding Fathers liked Vattel's work, and agreed with it heavily. When they decided to include a Natural Born clause, they didn't need to define it. Vattel had already done the work.

George Washington (1st President of the US) was such a fan of the book, he famously checked it out and didn't return it.

UPDATE-

After careful review of high-res images of the actual Constitution. I have learned that in the original document the term "Law of Nations" is capitalized...unlike in the text I posted in the OP which is written "law of nations".

Charters of Freedom (hi res images)

I also decided to refresh myself as to the proper usage of Capitalization.

Capitalization

Rule 8.

Always capitalize the first and last words of titles of publications regardless of their parts of speech. Capitalize other words within titles, including the short verb forms Is, Are, and Be.

This is proof positive that the when the Founding Fathers included the term "Law of Nations" it was referring to a title of a publication. That publication is Vattel's "Law of Nations" as covered in the OP of this topic.

Vattel also invented the term "Natural Born Citizen", more proof that usage of that term in the Constitution refers to Vattel's definition. The definition that "Natural Born Citizen" means you were born on a nations soil, and both of your parents are citizens of that nation.

Originally posted by Byteman
Vattel also invented the term "Natural Born Citizen", more proof that usage of that term in the Constitution refers to Vattel's definition. The definition that "Natural Born Citizen" means you were born on a nations soil, and both of your parents are citizens of that nation.

edit on 2-5-2011 by Byteman because: clarification

edit on 2-5-2011 by Byteman because: clarification

Oh not just mom, but also the father must be known?

Hmm... Sounds like a bunch of men made that up. Haha, laughable.

There is only one person legally who can sign that newborn baby's birth cert, and it ain't daddy.

And like I said, if she comes out of the forest holding a baby, how do you know where she gave birth?

reply to post by smallpeeps

Oh not just mom, but also the father must be known?

Yes, both parents must be citizens. If the father especially is foreign, then there is NO chance of that child being a natural born citizen.

Hmm... Sounds like a bunch of men made that up. Haha, laughable.

Yes, the male-centric ways of our ancestors are pretty old-fashion to put it politely. Still, they fought and died to make America and the US Constitution and this is how they wanted it.

There is only one person legally who can sign that newborn baby's birth cert, and it ain't daddy.

And like I said, if she comes out of the forest holding a baby, how do you know where she gave birth?

Precisely.

The intent of Natural Born has never changed. Its cannot be changed by any part of govt.

en.wikipedia.org...

Ben Franklin had three copies when they wrote the constitution. Franklin borrowed the money to fight the British from the French based on the US not using english common law.

Our whitehouse was set on fire and we fought the war of 1812 based on using he Law of Nations in our founding.

Its pretty clear, Barak Obama could never hold office.

it means only wealthy white land owners can be president


oops.....

Wrong and your racist comments are not appreciated.

It was specifically to denote the conversion of British, Spanish, Portuguese, German and other Nation's citizens to American citizenship.

Originally posted by Shadowalker
The intent of Natural Born has never changed. Its cannot be changed by any part of govt.

Yes, it can be defined by Federal courts and changed by U.S. Congress, and that's what has happened.

Subsequent to the time of the U.S. Constitution there has been a Constitutional Amendment and US statutes passed by Congress. All courts will take evidence of these over those of a 18th century philosospher.

In these, there is no explicit definition of "natural born" that makes any distinction from "citizen from birth", which is defined by U.S. code, and there is not any logical distinction. I believe that the most logical and justifiable construction of "natural born citizen" is one who is a citizen from birth, and had to take no actions to 'naturalize', i.e. to change one's citizenship status to become a US Citizen.

If the Constitution had been intended to read "born to parents, all of whom, were U.S. citizens at time of birth", then it would have said so. Given that there have been a number of presidents prior to the current one for whom this has not been the case (and little controversy ensued), all courts with jurisdiction are likely to---and have---ruled as such. Citizenship of parents is not important---it is the 'born' that matters.

Born US citizen = natural born citizen.

ANY PERSON BORN IN THE LEGAL JURISDICTION OF THESE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AFTER 1750 IS A NATURAL BORN AMERICAN CITIZEN BY BIRTHRIGHT. THE MINOR CHILD CAN BE FIRST BORN IN THE UNITED STATES TO A NATIVE BORN MOTHER AND FOREIGN FATHER AND AS LONG AS THAT BIRTH OCCURED IN THE LEGAL JURISDICTION OF THESE UNITED STATES MEANS THE CHILD IS A FULL AND LEGAL NATURAL BORN CITIZEN AS THIS ONLY APPLIES TO THE MINOR CHILD AND THAT IS IT!

There is no special rules for both parents born stateside as that is playing decisive politics in an attempt to deny full and legally recognized Americans their legal right to claim citizenship by birth.

To continually deny those people born in the US this right makes you someone we do not want in our nation and is shades of racist thinking and ideaology as this same excuse was used for nearly 200 years to deny African Americans this right.

Either get with the program or get left behind.

reply to post by Byteman



I think that what the founders may have had in mind by the terms "natural born" is irrelevant. The constitution can be and has been amended. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. That's very clear but if you feel you must divine it's meaning by referring to non-constututional documents then consider a text book on remedial English.