If you saw someone being mugged would you?

Originally posted by calstorm
Would you really want me rescuing you if I was in a bad mood to begin with? Just kidding.
I was going to expound more but then I saw the clock and its after 3 am, but what the heck.
If I was feeling pretty confident that day, say job promotion or something along that line, I might be more likely to intervene myself.
If I was feeling particularly depressed, say bad break up, loss of a pet, ect. I might be more likely to walk away, or I may be more likely to do somethign stupid, its really hard to say.
On an average day I would phone the police. As much as I like to think I am pretty tough for a girl, unless the mugger was obviously weaker than me, I know I wouldn't be very effective.

edit on 30-4-2011 by calstorm because: (no reason given)

Im a girl also if this person was some big guy attacking a girl i wouldnt be of any use either id call the police im not very tough and im very small..thanks for your reply!

reply to post by sugarcookie1


Thanks for you'r reply. I am so offended by the "well what's in it for me ?" attitude. By the way, I've lived in Minnesota since I was 14. Great place my adopted state!

reply to post by sugarcookie1


There is a basic problem with encountering and then (trying to at least) countering violence with violence ( attacking and beating a criminal ) though the ethics seem right the personal sacrifice psychologically speaking is a very dangerous thing ( the turtle soup problem; one eventually becomes what they hate )

Fear is what criminals operate on and with. It is the fear that traps one to inaction, it is the mastery ( or at least understanding) of that fear that allows ( compels as loverboy found out )one to action , being trapped in the fear reaction space is nothing to be ashamed of , anyone whom tells you he fears nothing is a lying bastard , was loverboy scared before approaching two men? almost certainly but he grabbed that and thrust it aside to be more than just a frightened animal , and as a thoughtful person the sacrifice (of personal safety) with no expectation of payment is both crazy as hell and as noble as it gets and I can think of no better description of 'human being'

But even mastering your fear does not always make one equal to the task at hand . A quick phone and an observant eye ( the details, what did he look like, what was he wearing, which way did he run , how did he move etc) can be just as important (you know invoking team work) as a gut punch that knocks the wind out of him and makes the scumbag crap his pants.

But in answer to your question , yes at 5'8" and 140 pounds I cross that line, some of us have seriously underdeveloped senses of self preservation, and rather naive notions of justice and fairness, one simply cannot outrun their nature.

Originally posted by arbiture
reply to post by sugarcookie1

 

Thanks for you'r reply. I am so offended by the "well what's in it for me ?" attitude. By the way, I've lived in Minnesota since I was 14. Great place my adopted state!

I guess everyone has a diffrent take on what they would do..I love minnesota i dont love the winters but its a great state!

Originally posted by Silverlok
reply to post by sugarcookie1

 

There is a basic problem with encountering and then (trying to at least) countering violence with violence ( attacking and beating a criminal ) though the ethics seem right the personal sacrifice psychologically speaking is a very dangerous thing ( the turtle soup problem; one eventually becomes what they hate )

Fear is what criminals operate on and with. It is the fear that traps one to inaction, it is the mastery ( or at least understanding) of that fear that allows ( compels as loverboy found out )one to action , being trapped in the fear reaction space is nothing to be ashamed of , anyone whom tells you he fears nothing is a lying bastard , was loverboy scared before approaching two men? almost certainly but he grabbed that and thrust it aside to be more than just a frightened animal , and as a thoughtful person the sacrifice (of personal safety) with no expectation of payment is both crazy as hell and as noble as it gets and I can think of no better description of 'human being'

But even mastering your fear does not always make one equal to the task at hand . A quick phone and an observant eye ( the details, what did he look like, what was he wearing, which way did he run , how did he move etc) can be just as important (you know invoking team work) as a gut punch that knocks the wind out of him and makes the scumbag crap his pants.

But in answer to your question , yes at 5'8" and 140 pounds I cross that line, some of us have seriously underdeveloped senses of self preservation, and rather naive notions of justice and fairness, one simply cannot outrun their nature.

I like how you outlined everything and what you said is very true.. fear.. is what would keep me from jumping in id just call the police..thanks for your reply

Originally posted by Silverlok
reply to post by sugarcookie1

 

There is a basic problem with encountering and then (trying to at least) countering violence with violence ( attacking and beating a criminal ) though the ethics seem right the personal sacrifice psychologically speaking is a very dangerous thing ( the turtle soup problem; one eventually becomes what they hate )

Fear is what criminals operate on and with. It is the fear that traps one to inaction, it is the mastery ( or at least understanding) of that fear that allows ( compels as loverboy found out )one to action , being trapped in the fear reaction space is nothing to be ashamed of , anyone whom tells you he fears nothing is a lying bastard , was loverboy scared before approaching two men? almost certainly but he grabbed that and thrust it aside to be more than just a frightened animal , and as a thoughtful person the sacrifice (of personal safety) with no expectation of payment is both crazy as hell and as noble as it gets and I can think of no better description of 'human being'

But even mastering your fear does not always make one equal to the task at hand . A quick phone and an observant eye ( the details, what did he look like, what was he wearing, which way did he run , how did he move etc) can be just as important (you know invoking team work) as a gut punch that knocks the wind out of him and makes the scumbag crap his pants.

But in answer to your question , yes at 5'8" and 140 pounds I cross that line, some of us have seriously underdeveloped senses of self preservation, and rather naive notions of justice and fairness, one simply cannot outrun their nature.

No one need be a Rambo, or Mike Tison either. But a great more of us have a seriously under appreciated awareness of our potential. Of course one must be cautious, but what do you mean by "naive notions of justice and fairness" ?

Originally posted by arbiture

Originally posted by Silverlok
reply to post by sugarcookie1

 

There is a basic problem with encountering and then (trying to at least) countering violence with violence ( attacking and beating a criminal ) though the ethics seem right the personal sacrifice psychologically speaking is a very dangerous thing ( the turtle soup problem; one eventually becomes what they hate )

Fear is what criminals operate on and with. It is the fear that traps one to inaction, it is the mastery ( or at least understanding) of that fear that allows ( compels as loverboy found out )one to action , being trapped in the fear reaction space is nothing to be ashamed of , anyone whom tells you he fears nothing is a lying bastard , was loverboy scared before approaching two men? almost certainly but he grabbed that and thrust it aside to be more than just a frightened animal , and as a thoughtful person the sacrifice (of personal safety) with no expectation of payment is both crazy as hell and as noble as it gets and I can think of no better description of 'human being'

But even mastering your fear does not always make one equal to the task at hand . A quick phone and an observant eye ( the details, what did he look like, what was he wearing, which way did he run , how did he move etc) can be just as important (you know invoking team work) as a gut punch that knocks the wind out of him and makes the scumbag crap his pants.

But in answer to your question , yes at 5'8" and 140 pounds I cross that line, some of us have seriously underdeveloped senses of self preservation, and rather naive notions of justice and fairness, one simply cannot outrun their nature.

No one need be a Rambo, or Mike Tison either. But a great more of us have a seriously under appreciated awareness of our potential. Of course one must be cautious, but what do you mean by "naive notions of justice and fairness" ?

I was wondering also but didnt want to ask

reply to post by sugarcookie1


Ask. Please. I want to understand where people are coming from.

Have stepped in a few times over the years when encountered such situations - and twice encountered idiots who thought they could relieve me of my wallet..
Will continue to step in when encounter such situations.. However
1. Was trained in martial arts from the time I could walk and continue to study / train in martial arts.
2. Am ex-military s.o.g 4 tours in vietnam when was young and stupid.
Funny every time encountered such situations it was in western countries.. Less likely to encounter it now as not keen on cities so rarely enter them and lower crime rates here in asia than in western countries.

Originally posted by Expat888
Have stepped in a few times over the years when encountered such situations - and twice encountered idiots who thought they could relieve me of my wallet..
Will continue to step in when encounter such situations.. However
1. Was trained in martial arts from the time I could walk and continue to study / train in martial arts.
2. Am ex-military s.o.g 4 tours in vietnam when was young and stupid.
Funny every time encountered such situations it was in western countries.. Less likely to encounter it now as not keen on cities so rarely enter them and lower crime rates here in asia than in western countries.

So many over here pack guns and knifes you just dont know what to do pluss if there high they just might kill you to

Have a blackbelt in Taekwando.
Not a big person. I'm in my late 60"s.
Lucky if i can walk anymore.
Now I have a substitute backup.
I take a bulldog with me everywhere I go.
His breed, 357Mag. Charco Arms Bulldog Pug.
Would unleash him in a heartbeat!!

Originally posted by arbiture

No one need be a Rambo, or Mike Tison either.

Yes hence the line: "But even mastering your fear does not always make one equal to the task at hand", sometimes even the best of us get knocked out although:
(and Rambo/Tyson an odd coupling to say the least , but i assume you place them together as power figures , yes?, personally I think Bruce Lee, and Spiderman ;-)

But a great more of us have a seriously under appreciated awareness of our potential. Of course one must be cautious,

Because some are untested, prompting the nature of the question in the OP. It's been my experience people need to go deep inside themselves and be stripped of nearly everything but the core of their true self standing naked in front of the mirror in the mind's eye to reach the place that allows them to truly begin to understand their own potential , I've also often found that being cautious tends to lead one away from that experience

but what do you mean by "naive notions of justice and fairness" ?

I believe in justice and fairness. The universe does not recognize these concepts as laws like gravity and time, and whereas justice is conceptual, fairness is a more physical application of it. The seeming contradiction here is that in hand to hand fighting for your life there are no rules it is not some game of honor , and any old soldier can identify that what is really happening is that applied ethics are being justified with abhorrent physical violence, so in essence taking violence in to hand is a judgement and sentencing , a very dangerous and easily corruptible thing , hence the idea that the universe should be balanced by individual interpretation seems somewhat tantamount to ultimate hubris.

Hence the word 'naive', it's a bit of a joke , as once one decides to cross the line he then runs the very real danger of being what he is fighting against , morally if not ethically speaking, and as such only naive because 'fairness' , in the eyes of the jaded, is a foolish game for the young as the decadence that is our political machine is often confused for human nature by those whom have grown inured to it , and so any actual applied 'fairness' is anything but naive, once one begins to understand the human potential...

Originally posted by Silverlok

Originally posted by arbiture

No one need be a Rambo, or Mike Tison either.

Yes hence the line: "But even mastering your fear does not always make one equal to the task at hand", sometimes even the best of us get knocked out although:
(and Rambo/Tyson an odd coupling to say the least , but i assume you place them together as power figures , yes?, personally I think Bruce Lee, and Spiderman ;-)

But a great more of us have a seriously under appreciated awareness of our potential. Of course one must be cautious,

Because some are untested, prompting the nature of the question in the OP. It's been my experience people need to go deep inside themselves and be stripped of nearly everything but the core of their true self standing naked in front of the mirror in the mind's eye to reach the place that allows them to truly begin to understand their own potential , I've also often found that being cautious tends to lead one away from that experience

but what do you mean by "naive notions of justice and fairness" ?

I believe in justice and fairness. The universe does not recognize these concepts as laws like gravity and time, and whereas justice is conceptual, fairness is a more physical application of it. The seeming contradiction here is that in hand to hand fighting for your life there are no rules it is not some game of honor , and any old soldier can identify that what is really happening is that applied ethics are being justified with abhorrent physical violence, so in essence taking violence in to hand is a judgement and sentencing , a very dangerous and easily corruptible thing , hence the idea that the universe should be balanced by individual interpretation seems somewhat tantamount to ultimate hubris.

Hence the word 'naive', it's a bit of a joke , as once one decides to cross the line he then runs the very real danger of being what he is fighting against , morally if not ethically speaking, and as such only naive because 'fairness' , in the eyes of the jaded, is a foolish game for the young as the decadence that is our political machine is often confused for human nature by those whom have grown inured to it , and so any actual applied 'fairness' is anything but naive, once one begins to understand the human potential...

edit on 4-5-2011 by Silverlok because: wax, damnable wax[

I am not young, as they say it a'int the years though I'm 50, it's much more the milage. I must be true to myself, to accept my nature as a flawed man yet if I may say (think) I'm formidable enough. I have been tested in some serious ways, back when I did serve my country as a free lance (off the books) capacity. I still suffer from PTSD given what I went through. Usually when I was "out and about" I was a private citizen then, as I always was. With no diplomatic recognition or immunity, I was on my own. I paid a heavy price. So be it. I love my country and would do what ever was necessary to protect my people. Despite being pretty banged up, though most of the physical damage was due to simple accidents, but not all. I would still do exactly what I had to do again, without hesitation. Be very careful if you ever go into business, because if he/she is a cowered, thats the most dangerous of "partners", they will sell your sol and anything else. I found funding from outside sources, after I started my company by selling stock, and using my salary from my first job started part-time with my company, Then, in my case received the bulk of the money from a very old UK family that was my connection. Caution: a cowered fears everything and will sell you out. I set up the business and my Dad made the connection that got me the major funding for my first company. My first partner was a pathetic man. I despise cowards. I meant what I said in being no Rambo. My best way of self defense is to run like hell (I was a good sprinter in school) Left 'em all in the dust...

I'm not a physical person, and I abhor violence. But I am also not a pacifist. I don't believe in initiating violence but had to protect two people, for a grand total twice in my life. I was forced to protect myself once. Hell, I'm a technical analyst and researcher, design new ideas that manifest as unique technology. Also done some teaching, one of my deep passions, and since my 20's a businessman. Though I am a small frame guy, I do have a black belt in judo, and though I have never carried a weapon am a pretty good shot with a .45 and 9 mm. I can handle a 30.06 (with scope) and M-16. I love to go to the rage or outdoor quarry not far from my home for use of the "heavy" stuff and obliterate a few paper targets. Great way to kill an hour, no pun intended. Shot a .50 caliber double barrel Navy ship mounted gun a few times, wow better then sex... (lasts longer) I used to fly a small plane, was rated single and twin engine prop and (twin) turbo-prop but now can only take her up, by renting a plane with another pilot sitting right seat.

One of my accident's induced epilepsy so I need a pilot to take over, should it be needed. I also gave up scuba diving though would do that again but need a refresher course. Last time I dived was 1991 in Sydney, great fun. And in truth if I dive and convulse the only person who dies would be me, though I would drop my weight belt and that auto-deflates my vest at the time But my flight credentials expired age's ago, so would have to go through training all over again. My first instructor was a women who in my very first flight in a Cessna 180 (I think) got me over the one "concern" I had flying a small plane; stalling. You stall and if to low to recover or directed said plane to a "controlled crash" you die. But the chance of dropping threw some poor bastards roof while he's on his sofa watching wheel of fortune? I have the right to risk only my life, but absolutely never another, ever. I am very cautious and not had a convulsion for all most 8 years. But I will not risk another, and by no means have ever been careless doing the fun stuff.

I don't find "being fair" wrong in any way sense or form. But I am also careful as to who I trust. My first business partner being such a cowered took advantage of my being MR democrat, small "d". Stupid of me. And I will not make that mistake again. But to me "fair" is being a reasonable and honest person. I have no problem sharing the wealth, so to speak. But sharing the "power"? When it's my money, I would now be very, very particular as to "what and how I shared". The money part to me is not so much a big thing as in business, my money I hold the majority of control now. But even then, a contribution, my first wussy business partner had certain technical ideas that were frankly brilliant.

I should have figured it out just how much a "moving hazard" he was. He had so little business sense he actually COULD NOT GIVE his idea away, Christ how dumb can you be? Almost as dumb as I was to trust him but I was very young, 24 when we started that company. He was in his 30's. Even by then I had been given stock in a new biotech company (my first "real job") because at first they could not afford to pay me. They did well, and I did quite well, certainly at that age. My first salary was not bad at all when they did get funding, but living at home took the stock to begin with.

I said Rambo and Tyson because both are "very physical and take no s***". Rambo is creative. Tyson is just a dumb f***** who hurts people, even women, God how I hate that... I like Bruce Lee and confess never saw Spiderman. Seems like a nice enough guy though, saw him I think on Oprah once I think...

Originally posted by arbiture

Originally posted by Silverlok

Originally posted by arbiture

No one need be a Rambo, or Mike Tison either.

Yes hence the line: "But even mastering your fear does not always make one equal to the task at hand", sometimes even the best of us get knocked out although:
(and Rambo/Tyson an odd coupling to say the least , but i assume you place them together as power figures , yes?, personally I think Bruce Lee, and Spiderman ;-)

But a great more of us have a seriously under appreciated awareness of our potential. Of course one must be cautious,

Because some are untested, prompting the nature of the question in the OP. It's been my experience people need to go deep inside themselves and be stripped of nearly everything but the core of their true self standing naked in front of the mirror in the mind's eye to reach the place that allows them to truly begin to understand their own potential , I've also often found that being cautious tends to lead one away from that experience

but what do you mean by "naive notions of justice and fairness" ?

I believe in justice and fairness. The universe does not recognize these concepts as laws like gravity and time, and whereas justice is conceptual, fairness is a more physical application of it. The seeming contradiction here is that in hand to hand fighting for your life there are no rules it is not some game of honor , and any old soldier can identify that what is really happening is that applied ethics are being justified with abhorrent physical violence, so in essence taking violence in to hand is a judgement and sentencing , a very dangerous and easily corruptible thing , hence the idea that the universe should be balanced by individual interpretation seems somewhat tantamount to ultimate hubris.

Hence the word 'naive', it's a bit of a joke , as once one decides to cross the line he then runs the very real danger of being what he is fighting against , morally if not ethically speaking, and as such only naive because 'fairness' , in the eyes of the jaded, is a foolish game for the young as the decadence that is our political machine is often confused for human nature by those whom have grown inured to it , and so any actual applied 'fairness' is anything but naive, once one begins to understand the human potential...

edit on 4-5-2011 by Silverlok because: wax, damnable wax[

I am not young, as they say it a'int the years though I'm 50, it's much more the milage. I must be true to myself, to accept my nature as a flawed man yet if I may say (think) I'm formidable enough. I have been tested in some serious ways, back when I did serve my country as a free lance (off the books) capacity. I still suffer from PTSD given what I went through. Usually when I was "out and about" I was a private citizen then, as I always was. With no diplomatic recognition or immunity, I was on my own. I paid a heavy price. So be it. I love my country and would do what ever was necessary to protect my people. Despite being pretty banged up, though most of the physical damage was due to simple accidents, but not all. I would still do exactly what I had to do again, without hesitation. Be very careful if you ever go into business, because if he/she is a cowered, thats the most dangerous of "partners", they will sell your sol and anything else. I found funding from outside sources, after I started my company by selling stock, and using my salary from my first job started part-time with my company, Then, in my case received the bulk of the money from a very old UK family that was my connection. Caution: a cowered fears everything and will sell you out. I set up the business and my Dad made the connection that got me the major funding for my first company. My first partner was a pathetic man. I despise cowards. I meant what I said in being no Rambo. My best way of self defense is to run like hell (I was a good sprinter in school) Left 'em all in the dust...

I'm not a physical person, and I abhor violence. But I am also not a pacifist. I don't believe in initiating violence but had to protect two people, for a grand total twice in my life. I was forced to protect myself once. Hell, I'm a technical analyst and researcher, design new ideas that manifest as unique technology. Also done some teaching, one of my deep passions, and since my 20's a businessman. Though I am a small frame guy, I do have a black belt in judo, and though I have never carried a weapon am a pretty good shot with a .45 and 9 mm. I can handle a 30.06 (with scope) and M-16. I love to go to the rage or outdoor quarry not far from my home for use of the "heavy" stuff and obliterate a few paper targets. Great way to kill an hour, no pun intended. Shot a .50 caliber double barrel Navy ship mounted gun a few times, wow better then sex... (lasts longer) I used to fly a small plane, was rated single and twin engine prop and (twin) turbo-prop but now can only take her up, by renting a plane with another pilot sitting right seat.

One of my accident's induced epilepsy so I need a pilot to take over, should it be needed. I also gave up scuba diving though would do that again but need a refresher course. Last time I dived was 1991 in Sydney, great fun. And in truth if I dive and convulse the only person who dies would be me, though I would drop my weight belt and that auto-deflates my vest at the time But my flight credentials expired age's ago, so would have to go through training all over again. My first instructor was a women who in my very first flight in a Cessna 180 (I think) got me over the one "concern" I had flying a small plane; stalling. You stall and if to low to recover or directed said plane to a "controlled crash" you die. But the chance of dropping threw some poor bastards roof while he's on his sofa watching wheel of fortune? I have the right to risk only my life, but absolutely never another, ever. I am very cautious and not had a convulsion for all most 8 years. But I will not risk another, and by no means have ever been careless doing the fun stuff.

I don't find "being fair" wrong in any way sense or form. But I am also careful as to who I trust. My first business partner being such a cowered took advantage of my being MR democrat, small "d". Stupid of me. And I will not make that mistake again. But to me "fair" is being a reasonable and honest person. I have no problem sharing the wealth, so to speak. But sharing the "power"? When it's my money, I would now be very, very particular as to "what and how I shared". The money part to me is not so much a big thing as in business, my money I hold the majority of control now. But even then, a contribution, my first wussy business partner had certain technical ideas that were frankly brilliant.

I should have figured it out just how much a "moving hazard" he was. He had so little business sense he actually COULD NOT GIVE his idea away, Christ how dumb can you be? Almost as dumb as I was to trust him but I was very young, 24 when we started that company. He was in his 30's. Even by then I had been given stock in a new biotech company (my first "real job") because at first they could not afford to pay me. They did well, and I did quite well, certainly at that age. My first salary was not bad at all when they did get funding, but living at home took the stock to begin with.

I said Rambo and Tyson because both are "very physical and take no s***". Rambo is creative. Tyson is just a dumb f***** who hurts people, even women, God how I hate that... I like Bruce Lee and confess never saw Spiderman. Seems like a nice enough guy though, saw him I think on Oprah once I think...

Thank you so much for replying back