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What is free will to you?

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posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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I'm an agnostic who is always seeking...

I here this concept used in different ways all the time?

Wikipedia descibes it as follows;

"Free will is the apparent ability of agents to make choices free from certain kinds of constraints."

Definition of CONSTRAINT
1a : the act of constraining b : the state of being checked, restricted, or compelled to avoid or perform some action c : a constraining condition, agency, or force : check




posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by wearewatchingyouman
 


Well, based off your views, I think you're looking at it the wrong way. There's always (and always will be) a law of some kind, obviously we have a choice to obey them or not, but that isn't solely where free will resides. For example, I have the choice of eating an apple today, or eating a banana. It's my decision.

Oh, and for those of you who believe there is no such thing as free will (calling it pre-determined because God can see the future), it isn't like that at all. God KNOWS what is going to happen, but that doesn't mean he controls your actions, much less making it pre-determined.

Pretend you have a son, and you know he's going to be faced with a difficult decision, for example, to steal something or not to steal it. Now, you know for a fact (100%) what he is going to do, regardless of which action it is. Though, us humans may act and decide to prevent him from committing a theft, but that doesn't give him much free will - a perfect God, one who promised free will, would not interact. He'll be saddened by our poor choice, SHOULD we make that decision to steal (as all fathers probably would), but should we not choose poorly, well, that was our own free-choice, much reward is gained in doing what is right.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by Lionhearte
reply to post by wearewatchingyouman
 


Well, based off your views, I think you're looking at it the wrong way. There's always (and always will be) a law of some kind, obviously we have a choice to obey them or not, but that isn't solely where free will resides. For example, I have the choice of eating an apple today, or eating a banana. It's my decision.

Oh, and for those of you who believe there is no such thing as free will (calling it pre-determined because God can see the future), it isn't like that at all. God KNOWS what is going to happen, but that doesn't mean he controls your actions, much less making it pre-determined.

Pretend you have a son, and you know he's going to be faced with a difficult decision, for example, to steal something or not to steal it. Now, you know for a fact (100%) what he is going to do, regardless of which action it is. Though, us humans may act and decide to prevent him from committing a theft, but that doesn't give him much free will - a perfect God, one who promised free will, would not interact. He'll be saddened by our poor choice, SHOULD we make that decision to steal (as all fathers probably would), but should we not choose poorly, well, that was our own free-choice, much reward is gained in doing what is right.


But the Father in your scenario isn't saying steal and I'll blow your headoff if you don't feel bad about it... he's simply saddened so I fail to see the connection...
edit on 29-4-2011 by wearewatchingyouman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 04:51 PM
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Free will to me is a farce and a non discussion. It should not be chased cause it only works if used properly.

And proper for one is a no no for another. If you say free will it means everything is allowed with no restrictions.
And i hope that is not what you want. The moment you make restrictions to free will, you terminate it.

So therefore, I think the right answer is; Free will should not and does not exist.

Free will is a non discussion.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by totalmoron
Free will to me is a farce and a non discussion. It should not be chased cause it only works if used properly.

And proper for one is a no no for another. If you say free will it means everything is allowed with no restrictions.
And i hope that is not what you want. The moment you make restrictions to free will, you terminate it.

So therefore, I think the right answer is; Free will should not and does not exist.

Free will is a non discussion.


Yes this is my current understanding of the subject as well... but I'm always open to being shown otherwise... so for me it is a discussion...



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by wearewatchingyouman
 


Well do you believe Hell is a real thing or something made of for control over the populous in ancient times?

Without the threat of said non-existant place, free will is much easier to understand...




posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


As I stated I'm agnostic... I don't really have complete "belief" in anything... including what happens after this life... I also stated that hell wasn't a belief for all who believe in Abrahams God... But in most cases, that I'm aware of, some type of eternal death is a punishment for not following the rules or not believing... whether it be just no more life or an addition of torment...

I do believe in death, as in an end to this existence, cause I've seen it with my own two eyes...



edit on 29-4-2011 by wearewatchingyouman because: add



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by wearewatchingyouman
 


The definition of 'free will' that you quoted, and which is readily found in most reference sources, is more correctly "free to will", being free to will what we want or need. However, being free to will and exercising that right always comes with a price, and that is the cost of consequences.

To me, real "free will" only exists when actions are free of karmic consequences, and that state can only come about when there is no "I' or ego performing the actions, when the mind is completely attuned to the higher impulses of the spirit within and all desires have dissipated. That is the freedom worth fighting for, when all one's thoughts and actions are in harmony with the "will” of the universe, the all-pervading consciousness, the God of All.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by mysticnoon
 


interesting... I dig this freewill!


however, I take issue with the first paragraph simply because the definition of what you call "free to will" put's no constraints on actions... consequence of action is a constraint... but I guess there is also "certain kinds" to take into account...
edit on 29-4-2011 by wearewatchingyouman because: add



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by wearewatchingyouman
 


As far as I see there are many levels of free will/freedom.

NATURAL LEVEL
There is no total freedom in nature as creatures have limited capabilities and they depend on their surroundings.
Anyway, solitary animals (bears, leopards, etc) seem to have more freedom than the social ones (wolves, monkeys etc).
Added to this, evolution gives everything the freedom to change (thus the freedom to break "the law").

INTERPERSONAL LEVEL
1. Someone with a strong "ego"- he doesn't submit to others' will, he makes them submit
2.Individualist- he doesn't submit to others, but respects their free will

CULTURAL LEVEL
Those who don't mind the cultural interrest/religion/thoughts of their parents/country etc (who ignore authority and indoctrination), can choose their cultural identity free (according to their own feelings/thoughts/research etc)

PERSONAL LEVEL
1.Self control (Self control for free will: if you don't control yourself, others will control you)
2.Self "design" (With a strong self control/ knowledge of psychology or esoterics- you are free to change your feelings/thoughts/a bit of your personality, to achieve your goals)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by wearewatchingyouman
 




isn't freedom to me... it's more like a dictatorship...

...if you incorporate the bible into that, it is seemingly a rule book to thwart said dictatorship in order to inherently gain a form of control over the masses. As far as free will, I believe we do possess it and it is more or less the ability to form an opinion.

As long as we have possess this ability, it will be difficult to have absolute control over anything with the exception of creating a race of drones. Only then will you be able to have conformity and uniformity on a mass scale. Until that day, I feel there will never be world peace as it were.

There will always be someone that doesn't agree with something. Which is what makes this such a great ride, else it would be a completely boring and mundane existence imo.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 08:16 PM
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Free will is rather simple the way I look at it my friend. If you can think to do it, then you can do it.

There is one law that is of divine origin. It is enforced through cause and effect. If your actions go against the law, then you feel the consequences. That law is simply to love one another.

If everyone of your actions is performed out of love for your fellow man, then you will find peace and harmony in this world.

There are no short cuts though. You must apply this law to ALL. There is no loving one more than another for this creates jealousy. There is no loving the materials of this world more than others for this causes greed. There is no loving your own mind more than others for this causes pride. There is no loving your appearance more than others for this causes vanity.

If you DO NOT violate the law of loving all things equally, you will lead a blessed and stress free life.

You may be oppressed by others who are not free willed, but if you love them it will not bother you. You know what they are missing that causes them to oppress you.

You may be ridiculed by others who hate you for loving murderers, but you will be at peace if you love them all for you see the pain that causes others to murder as well as the pain of those who loved the victim. Their pain comes from not loving all equally.

You may even be put to death, but that won't bother you either for loving even your murderer is a greater act of love. By being love, you become eternal. By becoming eternal, you become free WILL.

With Love,

Your Brother


edit on 29-4-2011 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 


effin outstanding reply... you never cease to amaze....



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 


Indeed, this is a wonderful and uplifting reply. Sir, I would like to thank you for allowing me the privilege of being made privy to this post and the content that you so eloquently provided. You have provided me a missing piece to this puzzle that is life and more so the people that share it with me in this world. I am, over the last couple of weeks, beginning to see this more clearly everyday.

I have been given a gift very recently, which is the only way I can define it. I have seen the proverbial light that is positivity over negativity. I have made a true effort to eliminate any and all negativity from my life. Which in the beginning was Super exhaustive surprisingly enough to me. Ultimate positivity, is, in the beginning, quite difficult to achieve as negativity is not so easily defeated.

Your post, has incorporated the "love" of my fellow man into this new found understanding of how the Universe is working in our favor if one chooses to simply believe it is so. It is very prevalent to me at this venture when I am met with someone that lacks this simplistic understanding of how "it' should be.

I am eager to try and convince people who are unaware that all it takes to be one with the Universe and achieve anything and everything that they ever wanted, is so easily achievable by merely believing it already is.

Your post, has added one more element to this equation. I am now going to incorporate this into the aforementioned and I suspect the results of which will be very productive in regards to spreading this energy to anyone that crosses my path. You Sir, win the wisest post reply of the day award.

I apologize there is no trophy other than the star I gave you, and the knowledge that you indeed touched another individual with your most informative post, again thank you and if I may say, you Sir, now have a place in my mind, for that, I can say that you as my fellow man, are loved for all intents and purposes



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 04:32 AM
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A man can do what he wills but can he will what he wills?
The pain and suffering that is experienced is caused by the belief in freewill. The belief that it is 'me', this separate individual that either makes life good or makes life bad is a lot to carry. If life is bad it must be my own fault. After this very deep rooted belief has been planted and taken on as truth, i now spend all of my time trying to be good. I'm not too sure what 'good' means but i know that if i can achieve it life will be 'good'. This is the basic assumption that leads us into desire, if i get it right all will be well.
Then we beat ourselves up for making what we consider to be the wrong choices, they must be wrong because my life is still not 'good'.
Freewill is a trap. Freewill does not bring freedom or peace.

Trust that you need never choose again.
You never have anyway.
The mind may lead you to believe you choose, but the choice was already made.

If anyone truly believes in freewill, i challenge you to ponder the tradition of new years resolutions.
edit on 30-4-2011 by Itisnowagain because: spelling mistake.



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 04:53 AM
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We are bombarded continually with the phrase 'Be good', i always think of ET. As a child you are told be good, you are graded at school and at work. What does 'be good' mean though?
Don't cause (me) any trouble. Don't challenge (me). This 'me' is an authority figure.
Freewill only comes into play (exists) if there is a benchmark. The benchmark tends to have only two units of measure, good or bad/right or wrong. I make the right choice or i make the wrong choice, i wouldn' t ever beable to change what had happened so how could the thought i made the wrong choice ever be tested in reality.
If it was accepted that there is no freewill and that everything just happens, then we would not beable to measure it, name it, label it as good or bad. Where would that leave us?
The justice system would have to change dramaticly if freewill was disproved and it would also lighten the load some.
Nothing to do because everything is being done.
Nothing to solve.
Just is.
Justice.



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by UberL33t
Your post, has added one more element to this equation. I am now going to incorporate this into the aforementioned and I suspect the results of which will be very productive in regards to spreading this energy to anyone that crosses my path. You Sir, win the wisest post reply of the day award.

I apologize there is no trophy other than the star I gave you, and the knowledge that you indeed touched another individual with your most informative post, again thank you and if I may say, you Sir, now have a place in my mind, for that, I can say that you as my fellow man, are loved for all intents and purposes


Thank you for the heartfelt reply my friend, but I did not say these things. Christ taught these things and I am merely sharing them. As we are all children of God, we should love each other as children of God. When we do so with out judgement, you will be awestruck at the magnificence of the existence we share here. I tell you the truth from my heart, we are in Heaven and most do not even see it. Love them and heal them, and Mankind will reach out to the stars.

With Love,

Your Brother



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