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General Lee was/is not an American Hero

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posted on May, 1 2011 @ 03:08 AM

Originally posted by Skerrako
I'm sure Lincoln choose his words very carefully, and said exactly what he meant. Let's not paraphrase direct quotes, that is the reason quotes exist, to clarify.

If you don't understand what Lincoln said during those debates, then it needs to be paraphrased for you to understand.

Lincoln did choose his words carefully, however I'm sure your taking it out of context and calling him a racist. The myopic white man of his day didn't understand him either, that speech was entirely imitating his spectators appraisal.

That's like interpreting Lincoln's quotes as "racist" the same way Liberals interpret the constitution.... It does not always mean what it says!

Maybe your saying we have a black president who likens himself to Lincoln the RACIST, who has sworn in on the same Bible Lincoln used?

Well I guess your entitled to an opinion.

Originally posted by Skerrako
So youre saying slavery had nothing to do with racism at all? You would be mighty naive to really think that. Ill help you out again:

I clearly said: your getting slavery and racism mixed up!
Your copying a link, do you not have anything to add in your own words?

This tells me you don't understand...
There is no single quote that can give a complete picture of slavery, though it's funny you quote from 1705 at a time when criminals served as slaves rather than execution.

Originally posted by Skerrako
but your original post made no mention of General Lee at all. Here it is:

Don't be silly, do I need to draw a tree chart to show you it was a response to your General Lee quote?

I mean come on... it's obvious your making asinine statements.

Originally posted by Skerrako
I'm sure to the freed slaves it was better than being property.

No not really, plantation records show that slaves worked less, were better fed, better wages and conditions being better than what was available to free black slaves.

Originally posted by Skerrako
How can you say racism worsened? Discrimination and prejudice may have worsened, but no racism did not. People began to see that blacks and whites could function in society more harmoniously.

Racism was worse after the war... as immigrants and many southern ex-slaves represented a potential threat to the white working-class. This turned to extreme racism at the end of the nineteenth century and the early 20's when millions of immigrants from Europe flooded in, and thus began racial formation.

After the civil war there was no harmonious lifestyle between the white class, ex-slaves and immigrants. Not until the 60's.......etc.

Originally posted by Skerrako
There's a lot more too it, and from what I have read so far from you, it doesn't seem like you should be giving history lessons to anyone, my friend.

I see you have no sense of humor... contemptuous remarks like that are thread killers...

posted on May, 1 2011 @ 03:14 AM
reply to post by rebeldog

Sounds like the rubbish from an usual Confederate sympathizer.

Can you prove that Lincoln was a jew, etc or are you just talking out of both sides of your mouth?

posted on May, 1 2011 @ 04:47 AM

Originally posted by schuyler
reply to post by Fear_Fear

One of the first things you learn in cultural anthropology is that you never judge a culture by your own standards. The idea is to study a culture by its own standards with a view to understanding why they think like they do. A southerner in 1850 who opposed slavery (and there were many) couldn't just change the entire economy any more than we can stop driving cars.

I thought their standards were "supposed" to be those of Christ. Since the vast majority all claimed to be God-fearing Christians, then it is perfectly fine to judge them and condemn them as immoral hypocrites by their own standard. The gospel that Christ taught has been a constant standard from around 26 AD up until present day for any person or group that identifies themselves as Christian.

Owning slaves and going to war to keep them is something within an individual's control. What others believe and do is not.

Someone who fails to live by a faith or standard that they claim to believe is not a hero, but a weak man. If you tell me Lee was not a Christian, then that's an entirely different story.

edit on 1-5-2011 by MaryStillToe because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-5-2011 by MaryStillToe because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 1 2011 @ 06:54 PM
reply to post by The Sword

i graduated from high school in illinois, so I am VERY well versed in good ol abe. here ya go, I wish it weren't true, and since you leaped your faith and insulted me, chances are your pride will block you from even acceptin gthe info before you. I may have taken a leap and condemned you (we're all human). the first 3 paragraphs are KEY. and the quote at the bottom is one of those nuggets of history from a great american.

Little has been published about the early life of Abraham Lincoln. However, during a search of some old property records and will in a small courthouse in central North Carolina, Alex Christopher the author of "Pandora's Box," in one of the old will books dated around 1840, he found the will of one A. A. Springs. Upon reading the will he was shocked and amazed at the secret that it disclosed, but one must remember that it is a known fact that wills, even though they are classified public records the same as property and corporation records, they are rarely combed through as he was doing at the time, and these records hold many dark secrets that can be hidden in public view, but are never uncovered because there are very few who research these old records.

This practice of hiding secrets in public view and the conspirators can say, when faced with the facts and accused of concealing the records; they can reply "Well it was there in the public record in plan view for any and all to find." In the will of A. A. Springs was the list of his property. it went into detail to whom the property was to be dispersed and it included his children. Mr. Christopher, and others, were looking to find what railroads and banks this man might have owned and had left to his son, Leroy Springs. He didn't find anything like that, but he did find the prize of the century. On the bottom of page three of four pages was a paragraph where the father, A. A. Springs, left to his son an enormous amount of land in the state of Alabama which amounted to the land that is today known as Huntsville, Alabama and then he went into detail to name the son and at first Mr. Christopher and the others with him couldn't believe what they were seeing, but there it was the name of the son and it was "ABRAHAM LINCOLN!"

This new information that they had about the Springs (real name Springstein) family, this was just another twist to add to the already manipulative family. This new information about Lincoln built a fire under them to see where this new lead would take them, because everything they had found in the railroad and banking saga had been a real mind-bender. They figured this one would be the same; so they inquired at the local archives and historical records on families and found a reference to one Abraham Lincoln in the family genealogy of the family of the Carolina by the name of McAdden, in a published genealogy on the family. The family members in the Carolinas were in a limited edition that at one time could be found in the public libraries. The section on Lincoln and the story went something like the following: "In the late spring of the year of 1808 Nancy Hanks, who was of the family lineage of the McAdden family was visiting some of her family in the community of Lincolnton, North Carolina. While on her stay with family in the Carolina', she visited with many of the neighboring families that she had known for many years; one such visit was the Springs family. The sordid details had been omitted but obviously the young Nancy Hanks had found herself in a compromised position and was forced to succumb to the lust of A.A. Springs. She became pregnant as a result. There were no details of a love affair or an act of violence on a helpless female. Abraham Lincoln was the result of that act, which leads one to wonder if the name 'Lincoln' was real or a fabricated name for the are of conception was 'Lincolnton.' Was there really a Thomas Lincoln? Since the 'Spring' were of the race that called themselves Jewish, that made Lincoln part Jewish and as part of the Springs family, he also became a relative of the Rothschild family by blood."

The following information was derived from information that exists in the Smithsonian, National Archives, the Congressional Library, Courtroom Police files, public and private libraries and storage vaults across the United States and Europe: "Abraham Lincoln was slapped three times with a white glove by a member of the Hapsburg royal family of Germany (Payseur family relatives) during a White House reception in 1862. The German royal family member demanded a pistol duel with the, then, President of the United States, Abraham Lincoln. The blows to the face stunned Lincoln but he non-verbally refused to participate in the duel by bowing his head before walking out of the reception room." What had ol' honest Abe done to so enrage and up-set the royal European personage?

It seems that the practice of promiscuity was running rampant in many families in those days and the German King Leopold had an illegitimate daughter named 'Elizabeth' who was sent to America, where she lived in a very comfortable manner. Although Leopold could not recognize her position, he was very interested in her life. In the early or mid 1850s, Abraham Lincoln and Elizabeth began having sexual liaisons that produced twin daughters named 'Ella' and 'Emily' in 1856. The regal German father who was so royally up-set with ol' honest Abe probably had full knowledge of what the true blood line of Lincoln really was. Abraham's wife, Mary Todd Lincoln, did not find out about Elizabeth, Ella and Emily until 1865. Previous to being informed about Elizabeth and the twins, Mrs. Lincoln had developed a ravaging dependency on Opium. Her main supplier of the drug was a former member of the Confederate Intelligence community, he was a former member because the Southern gentlemen did not approve of his drug pushing and unreliable behavior. It was because of his involvement with the Southern Intelligence Community, Mary's supplier - John Wilkes Booth - knew about the lover and the illegal twins.

After being spurned by the Confederate intelligence community, Mary's 'candy man' approached and became involved with the Rothschild Empire of Europe, for he realized the European banking moguls would be very interested in his pipeline to the White House. (At this time) Abraham was searching for an issue that would unite the North and South after the Civil War ended. The issue needed to be popular to all levels of American citizenry so they could 'rally around the Stars and Stripes' thus rapidly healing the wounds of the bloodiest war in history. Lincoln was seriously considering one major movement or event that would galvanize his fellow Northern and Southern patriot countrymen into cutting loose the United States of America from the dictatorial grip of the Hapsburg's bloodline of banking control in Europe. All the time, the Rothschild's were trying to take control of the entire world monetary system, and at that time the Rothschild's were trying to get a foot-hold in America and find a way around the British, Virginia Company, and French Bourbon family that were gaining control in this country through government help ...

Lincoln found himself in real hot water, because under the Virginia Company covenant, the 48 families that formed it were all of the Holy Grail Bloodline. This country was to be an extension of what all the royal families of Europe controlled. The royalty of Europe is 'Hapsburg,' no matter what their name is. The royal family of England is one such example. Now what Lincoln did is he wanted to become independent of the cogenant (in favor of his family) on the Rothschild side ... the Rothschild's and their family bloodline have always been undermining the affairs of the Hapsburg's and stealing the monetary control away from them. No matter what the history books say, the Rothschild's didn't get (total) real control on things in America and the Federal Reserve until the Springs usurped the Payseur family companies in the early 1920's ... (But Lincoln had fallen from Rothschild grace also and so, due, in part to his Executive Order to print United States Greenbacks, thus interfering with the Jewish International Banks profits). It appears that the Rothschild family wanted Lincoln embarrassed to the maximum degree. (So) Mary Todd's drug dealer (John Wilkes Booth) was hired to kidnap the President of the United States. Abraham would be put on a boat for a two month cruise of the Atlantic where he would be injected with and addicted to Opium and then dumped on the streets of Washington. While the forcefully addicted President was stumbling around our nation's capital, the press would be informed of Elizabeth, Ella and Emily.

The drug pusher (Booth) and collaborator (agent) of the Rothschild's had his perfect accomplice in the plot to kidnap and discredit the leader of the North American Continent in the First Lady, Mary Todd Lincoln. After being informed of Abe's lover and the twins and the kidnap plot by her drug supplier, Mary was promised that after her husband resigned or was impeached, she and Abe would be moved to Europe to live happily ever after with plenty of Opium. Superficially, Mary expressed a desire to live in Europe with plenty of Opium and no Civil War or Politics to distract her husband or family. But her drug suppler had totally underestimated the confusion, desperation and anger of Mary Todd Lincoln.

The plotters decided the Presidential snatch needed to take place in a public, yet discreet location where minimum witnesses would be present. There were too many potential witnesses at the White House. Two hours before the capture was to take place, Mary Todd had on the floor, a tantrum, because Abe had decided not to go out of the White House that night. Mary's outrageous outburst caused Abe to change his mind and the First family departed. Several minutes after arriving at the kidnap location, Mary instructed the family bodyguard to take a position that placed the First Family out of his visual sight. The position also required the bodyguard to traverse several flights of stairs to reach Abe and Mary should he be needed for any reason ... A wagon with a wooden cover arrived at the back entrance of the kidnap location with several men including Mary's Opium supplier. The plan was for the drug pusher to traverse the backstairs entrance, silently move down a hallway, and open an unlocked door to a darkened room where Mary and Abe were sitting.

After entering the room, Mary's drug man (Booth) would tell the President an urgent message was waiting for him at the War Department. Before descending down the backstairs, Abe would be knocked out with a chloroform cloth. The kidnappers would load the limp body into the covered wagon and swiftly stow Lincoln on an Opium boat for a novel 'cruise' of the Atlantic Ocean. When Booth actually opened the door to the darkened room where Abe and Mary were sitting, he went into a panic and shock. Abe was asleep with his head on Mary's left shoulder and the First Lady had her head turned toward the left looking at the door ... When she was sure the man who opened the door was Booth, she turned and looked at the President to be sure the pistol she was pointing would explode beneath the lower left earlobe of her husband.

Before Mary pulled the trigger, John Wilkes Booth, drug supplier to the First Lady, realized he was the patsy in all this mess. But he did not know if he was only Mary's patsy or also a chump for the Rothschild family. Were the men hiding around the back door of Ford's Theater there to help Booth with the kidnapping or there to point the false finger at the 'innocent' Booth? Booth was not about to run into the hallway or down the backstairs to find out the answer to that question. The only escape route was to jump the balcony and crash onto the stage during the performance. That night, Booth gave a literal interpretation of the theatrical phrase 'break a leg' as he fractured one of his during his leaping act from 'lethally loony Mary' and the men lurking around the back entrance of Ford's Theater.

In a novelty case located on a wall in Ford's Theater is 'The Gun That Shot Abraham Lincoln.' If anyone (assassin) were to kill a head of state, they would use a revolver, because several bullets might be needed to accomplish the murder and stop any guards during the escape. One would only use a one-shot pistol if they were absolutely sure they had intimate access to the victim. The gun on the wall of Ford's Theater is a derringer - the perfect weapon for the left handed female assassin who did not attend her husbands funeral. Mary Todd was not hiding in her room due to overwhelming grief and sorrow; she was imprisoned in her room with two armed guards for two weeks after killing her husband.

In the 1860's, an Act of Congress mandated the compensation of widows of former and active Congressmen, Senators, Vice Presidents and Presidents. The month and duration was ratified by both Houses of Congress for each widow. Mary Todd Lincoln applied for her widowers compensation three times and was denied the mandated compensation three times by both Houses of Congress. An unknown benefactor paid for Mary's passage to Europe where she died in small cottage in Germany.

In 1867, the Secret Service was founded so that drunken municipal law enforcement could not unwittingly participate with drug-addicted First Ladies or Gentlemen in vengeful high-brow killings of philandering Presidents of the United States. (To cover up the murders committed which would reflect a bad light for the presiding Administration, such as the Foster murder of President Clinton's administration). Before Booth jumped out of the balcony of the Presidential Box of the Ford Theater, he shouted at General Riley and his wife who were sitting to the right-front of the Lincolns. Booth's words expressed his innocence but also sealed the fate of the Riley's. Within a week of the shooting, General Riley and his wife were packed off to an insane asylum where they both died of 'unknown causes' within 30 days of being committed." (Pandora's Box, by Alex Christopher, pp. 282-286).


"We must realize that our party's most powerful weapon is racial tension. By propounding into the consciousness of the dark races that for centuries they have been oppressed by the whites, we can mould them to the program of the Communist Party. In America we will aim for subtle victory. While inflaming the Negro minority against the whites, we will endeavor to install in the whites a guilt complex for their exploitation of the Negroes. We will aid the Negroes to rise in prominence in every walk of life, in the professions and in the world of sports and entertainment. With this prestige, the Negro will be able to intermarry with the whites and begin a process which will deliver America to our cause."
Israel Cohen, A Racial Program For The 20th Century (1912)
quoted by Congressman Abernathy, Congressional Record (1957), p. 8559

posted on May, 1 2011 @ 06:59 PM
reply to post by The Sword

I implore you , or at the very least HUMBLY BEG you to read the entire reply I have presented to you. It really will get you up to speed on something that literally SHOCKED ME TO MY CORE. I felt truly violated when I learned of good Ol' Honest Springstein... The roots of the zionists were Seeded Waaaaayyy earlier than many realize.. I should really start a thread on this???? My Granny ( adoptive mother also) was a polish/german Jew. guess what ? that means Im jewish too. and her aunt married a Duke in Poland back in the 1890's. SO , I'm actually a Royal Jew..

posted on May, 1 2011 @ 07:01 PM
Off topic from Lee, but salient to the thread.

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posted on Sep, 30 2015 @ 10:26 PM

originally posted by: rebeldog
reply to post by The Sword

This new information that they had about the Springs (real name Springstein) family, this was just another twist to add to the already manipulative family.

Most powerful Rothschild bloodline in America are the Springsteins, now the Springs!

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