The Limits of Liberty

I have a question and that is "Who defines the limits upon your liberty?" If you suppose that there are limits to liberty and I would suppose most people here would then who is it that defines those limits? Who is it that you recognize as the arbiter of liberty because it seems as if we have accepted that there is a cadre of unelected bureaucrats that defines our liberty and having accepted this they can control how much or how little liberty we are afforded and their own control limited only by their fear of our resistance.

I believe we have been divided and conditioned, had our emotions and sensibilities played upon, to the point that we leap to quell the liberty of others while decrying the loss of our own. Liberty is the right to offend and to do with our property as we choose.

I will given examples:

1. We all know the story of the Piss Christ. I detest even having to type that but as Evelyn Beatrice Hall once said "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

a) Serrano received death threats, hate mail, and eventually lost his grants in 1987 after creating the "art".

b) In 1997, a patron of the National Gallery of Victoria tried to forcibly remove the artwork and then later it was attacked by two patrons with a hammer.

c) A week ago a print on display at Collection Lambert was destroyed by Christian protesters beyond repair.

2. Each year Nativity scenes placed on public and private grounds around the world are vandalized by those that disapprove.

a) The link has a long collection of examples.

3) We also all know that Westboro Baptist Church commits some fairly heinous if not legal acts in the protest of funerals.

a) Each time they commit a protest there are calls for laws targeting the Church to prevent them from interfering with the funerals.

b) The Arizona state legislature rushed a bill making it illegal to protest within 300 feet of a funeral for one hour before until one hour after the service.

The point is not whether either of the above is right or wrong but to show that we are divided and conditioned to disagree to the level that we seek state-support in limiting our own liberty. We accept that those that we disagree not only can, but should have their liberties infringed upon. Yet, when our own liberties are limited by those we disagree with -- we cry foul!

I see it as a two people on the opposing sides of a see-saw sitting on quicksand and each time one person touches the ground the whole see-saw sinks a little deeper.

I believe the coordinated opposition on both sides is used by those seeking to impose ever tightening restrictions upon liberty. We have the example of the memo from the Banker's Manifesto of 1892:

People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders. History repeats itself in regular cycles. This truth is well known among our principal men who are engaged in forming an imperialism of the world. While they are doing this, the people must be kept in a state of political antagonism. The question of tariff reform must be urged through the organization known as the Democratic Party, and the question of protection with the reciprocity must be forced to view through the Republican Party. By thus dividing voters, we can get them to expand their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us, except as teachers to the common herd. Thus, by discrete action, we can secure all that has been so generously planned and successfully accomplished.

Has the human spirit been sufficiently trained to the point that we will accept any infraction upon our liberty or the liberty of our neighbors because we fear what might happen if we stand up?

Who do I think controls our liberty? I'll sum it up with a quote from United States President James Garfield in 1881:

"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce...and when you realize that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate."

A few weeks after making that statement Garfield was assassinated.

The best example I've seen thus far of a modern Western city, overnight, turning in to Nazi Berlin is what happened in Toronto last year. I love it when the police officer says "You aren't in Canada anymore, you don't have any rights, when will you people understand that?" The police, they didn't even bother to wonder if that applied to them as well, they just took utter delight in beating people down for a change.

Liberty will never exist as long as Men group together to restrain the liberty of another. When men instead group together to PROTECT each others liberty, then you will have liberty AND LOVE.

With Love,

Your Brother

P.S. That's the Plan at the bottom of my posts!

Originally posted by IAMIAM
Liberty will never exist as long as Men group together to restrain the liberty of another. When men instead group together to PROTECT each others liberty, then you will have liberty AND LOVE.

I have a feeling it'll take an enormous amount of people to group together to protect liberty -- according to the Banker Manifesto in 1892 they were prepared to use force against Americans that resisted and we all know that a paycheck is usually more important to people than liberty.

Originally posted by ararisq

Originally posted by IAMIAM
Liberty will never exist as long as Men group together to restrain the liberty of another. When men instead group together to PROTECT each others liberty, then you will have liberty AND LOVE.

I have a feeling it'll take an enormous amount of people to group together to protect liberty -- according to the Banker Manifesto in 1892 they were prepared to use force against Americans that resisted and we all know that a paycheck is usually more important to people than liberty.

It will take a large number. I can use some help in spreading the word if you are so inclined. Peaceful resistance is the only way.

Of course, any man who simply stands free, is free. His price for freedom may be imprisonment, torture, or death, but it is better to die a free man, than live as a slave to anothers will.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by ararisq

Originally posted by IAMIAM
Liberty will never exist as long as Men group together to restrain the liberty of another. When men instead group together to PROTECT each others liberty, then you will have liberty AND LOVE.

I have a feeling it'll take an enormous amount of people to group together to protect liberty -- according to the Banker Manifesto in 1892 they were prepared to use force against Americans that resisted and we all know that a paycheck is usually more important to people than liberty.

It will take a large number. I can use some help in spreading the word if you are so inclined. Peaceful resistance is the only way.

Of course, any man who simply stands free, is free. His price for freedom may be imprisonment, torture, or death, but it is better to die a free man, than live as a slave to anothers will.

With Love,

Your Brother

How can you be free in prison, and not a slave to another`s will (Your will sure isn`t to be there)?
That`s the ultimate slavery, you become a 100% property of the state.

I know it is overused, but your freedom ends where freedom or rights of another person begin. If this simple rule would be upheld, the world would be a much better place. Of course, the exact definition of these freedoms and rights may be problematic in practice..

Originally posted by mkpetrov
How can you be free in prison, and not a slave to another`s will (Your will sure isn`t to be there)?
That`s the ultimate slavery, you become a 100% property of the state.

My friend, freedom is a state of mind. You either are free, or you are not. If you can be imprisoned, then you are not free. So, the only thing that can ever be free is your own mind which controls your own will. If you free your mind of all fear of imprisonment, it cannot be imprisoned even if the body is. If I were to be imprisoned, I would do nothing they asked. My body would be a dead lump as I refused to eat, bathe, or do anything my captors requests. They can have the body, but they will have to keep it alive. Eventually if they refuse to care for it, it will perish and I will once more be free of my confines. If they do hook tubes up to me to keep me alive then I AM free in my mind.

With Love,

Your Brother