the psychology behind suicide?

My mother would threaten suicide weekly for years, a symptom of depression. It really bothered me and I got her help. The help was mind altering drugs. This was not the way to go. After these drugs left her system she began to become more balanced and aware that her threats were just a mean attack on people in general. You cannot cure meaness with psychology. The suicidal have a charictar flaw that should be hated. Hate your mother, Love her too, as this is the best medicine.

Originally posted by earthdude
My mother would threaten suicide weekly for years, a symptom of depression. It really bothered me and I got her help. The help was mind altering drugs. This was not the way to go. After these drugs left her system she began to become more balanced and aware that her threats were just a mean attack on people in general. You cannot cure meaness with psychology. The suicidal have a charictar flaw that should be hated. Hate your mother, Love her too, as this is the best medicine.

You neglected to mention whether she actually acted on these threats. His mother did act on them.
I do agree to a point, and this is where resentment and anger comes in which i explained with my situation as well. My mother did attempt suicide 4 times....the first 3 were slitting her wrists (the way it was done was not the "killing cut" kind) and this is what pissed me off. She did then would make sure i would know about it. Seeing as though i was the only one around her cry for help was directed at a 14 year old boy. Unfair? Mean? Hateful? Yes on all accounts, and i let her know how i felt and i screamed at her and i cried and i told her i was fed up. The 4th time she took pills and almost did it right. She didnt call me to bring attention, she did it quietly and only me checking on her saved her life....by minutes. Otherwise it was a sunny beautiful day and she appeared in good spirits.
Im not sure hating anyone is good medicine what so ever. Dealing with feelings of hate and figuring out why you feel them makes it go away. And in my opinion hate takes more effort to do then loving someone.

While I have zero experience with suicide I do have experience with understanding emotions. Bottom line is if she doesn't want to grow as a person then she won't. Nobody can make another person want something. What you can do is urge her to participate in things that make her happy by herself. I say this b/c it sounds as if she bases her happiness on other people. That is just a set up for failure. And if she's been doing that for a long time you can easily see how the negative feelings can stack up on each other. She needs a reason to live for herself. Of course I may be 100% wrong but you never know what the right words are for situations like this.

Originally posted by ScRuFFy63
While I have zero experience with suicide I do have experience with understanding emotions. Bottom line is if she doesn't want to grow as a person then she won't. Nobody can make another person want something. What you can do is urge her to participate in things that make her happy by herself. I say this b/c it sounds as if she bases her happiness on other people. That is just a set up for failure. And if she's been doing that for a long time you can easily see how the negative feelings can stack up on each other. She needs a reason to live for herself. Of course I may be 100% wrong but you never know what the right words are for situations like this.

You bring up a great point, and honestly unless any of us know OP an his mother on a personal level we cant say if your 100% wrong. But judging from what we do know, theres been 2 traumatic issues in her life within the span of 5 and a half years, which certainly can contribute to something like this.
Another reason you bring up a good point is that sometimes people just arent going to be fixed by one person trying to push it. And sometimes it becomes detrimental to the person who is doing everything they feel they need to do out of obligation or a feeling they must. And when it comes to ones mother its hard to look outside the box.
OP has proven he has a good head on his shoulders. By cleaning up and changing her surroundings, helping with her debt, hes just removed to negative things that will surely prevent recovery. Hes also taken a brave step to step in on what he believes (and from what i read, im inclined to believe as well) is a negative relationship and an added cause to her downfall.
And with that being said it sounds as if his main "job" is done. He's gained control of a chaotic situation and made a fantastic effort to calm it down. Therapy is a different story and no one can tell the outcome of that based on her mental capability at the moment.
OP, i think a good consensus here is that youve done way more then you can ever do, and the final part is just dealing with your own emotions and hoping your mother will be able to do the same.
Only thing to do now is stay open to her feelings, dont negate them, and only in my personal opinion, i would stand firm on the phone issue. I wouldnt suggest confronting the man, as that will only enforce your mothers devotion to him if she finds out you chewed his head off for mistreating your mother.

The psychology behind suicide...
Well for one, their diets are way out of wack. They are barely eating, and certainly not eating much nutritious food. This further deepens their depression by disrupting the level of brain chemicals. Does your mom like fish? Low fish diets might increase the risk of suicide by as much as 17 times. The diet is where the depression really takes hold ....Also, years and years of extreme ostracism and lack of love from everyone around her have turned her mind into a very unstimulating place. Nothing is fun anymore for the depressed person. Everything becomes a chore.

Their brain becomes very foggy and their memories start to fade. They start asking themselves questions like "why am I even living anymore? What's the purpose?" Everything becomes strict, logical, and the beauty of life is non existent. Where you see a beautiful garden with birds chirping sweetly and flowers blooming brightly, they see a barren wasteland... It might as well be, they can't feel the difference.

What your mom needs, is love. Lots of and lots of love. Poor your heart to her and then some, make sure she knows 100% that you don't want to lose her. Get her out of that dark depressing room she is probably in, and have some fun with her. You must force her, do anything you can, never give up, trick her into getting into the car if you have to. Take her to a theme park, take her wine tasting, take her to her favorite place. Take lots of people with you, and make some friends along the way while you are at it. Never leave her side, show her that you love her more than anything in the world.

edit: btw, you are right, she is not herself, AT ALL. Do not take anything she says with even a grain of salt, your real mother is on vacation! No matter how hurtful it is, know that she is just letting that pain out, that is all she's doing, it's nothing personal. The pain is oozing out of her pores. Know their might be deep wounds in her life you don't know about it. You weren't around her 24/7 after all.

reply to post by ScRuFFy63


I am so sorry to read what she (and you) are going through.

Here's an option about the phone situation. Rather than assume sole responsibility for it, why not consult with her medical team about it? In your shoes, I certainly understand your wanting to protect her from another episode that contact with him at this time could bring on, since timing may be crucial.

The medical team conference exists in today's world and you can request one asap. At this conference, you can also discuss and consult on your approach to all of this. Then with their advice at least it frees you from being afraid of making the wrong decision. Should this meeting come about, be sure to approach it with written notes made in advance so you won't forget some vital item. And bring her phone. Hope this helps. All the best.

reply to post by GypsK


My friends and i have went through this situation in the past, unfortunatly we've lost a few friends to this...

People need to understand theres other options

Theres Hope

My friend covered this song from Alice in Chains as a cry out to these people that believe theres no other way...

Theres always another way everyone, suicide isn't ever necessary

Be Love

reply to post by GypsK


Hey sweetie, I've had first hand experience of what you're going through, in fact it mirrors in a way some of the stuff that I went through 7 yrs ago.

My dad died suddenly, heart attack, it was quick and he passed away sitting in his favourite chair.
My mum and dad were soulmates, no doubt about that, and my dad always promised her that he would never leave her behind, he would come back for her.
It was true love, guess almost Romeo and Juliet.....because my mum killed herself 4 weeks later.

She took a bottle of pills and to ensure that her attempt succeeded, she covered her head with a plastic bag so actually died from suffocation.
And that is how I found her the following day....

It affected me for a long, long time.
I went through a period of terrible withdrawal, the feelings of loss, not just of one parent, but of two. It might sound daft, but I felt like an orphan

Like your mum, mine had left a note, also she had listed everything about her finances, what she wanted me to do etc, she had prepared this probably from the day my dad died.

Even if I'd somehow managed to stop her on that occasion, I just know she'd have continued until she was successful.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if someone really, really wants to take their own life, at some point chances are they will do it.
I hope your mum won't become one of those people babes, I hope she pulls through

If you ever need to chat, just message me yeah xx

Late night calls, every twenty mins until she goes to see him even though he has told her he is more interested in her daughter? The guy sounds like a psychological monster who has succeeded in reducing your mother's self esteem to nothing until she committed an act of extreme self abuse.

If you feel mentally strong enough, take one of his calls. Tell him you are on to him. On second thoughts, probably better to get a man to do it.

Regarding the phone, is it possible to block both inbound and outbound calls for specific numbers? If so you can block any numbers the man uses and then give her the phone.

reply to post by GypsK


I went to see my mom this evening, they had moved her into the psych care unit, it's an open unit where they can walk in and out at will.
She had talked to two different psychologists already and met some of the other patients staying there, the place was better then what she had expected. They convinced her to stay there untill at least monday and have two therapy sessions and one group session each day. I'm surprised she agreed with it. She did say that she wasn't there because she wanted to but because she feels that it is what we are expecting of her. She was very vivid and calm and capable of a normal conversation, I think they gave her medication.... she seemed normal.

She didn't even ask about the cellphone, just said 'I know you won't give it to me'. I asked her why she wanted the phone so bad and she said 'I love him so much'. She said that after everything she knows she will still go back to him or try to get close to him, he is all that matters, not her financials, not her house, only him.
She wanted to know if he called... I had to give her something so I told her he left a txt msg "where are you and your big mouth?" and that was it... she seemed to have enough with that little information (he's still txting and that's enough)
I am planning on taking his next call and have a personal chat with him.

After visiting hours I went to talk to one of her doctors. It turned out that she had lied about everything they asked her, minimalizing the entire situation. Her doc told me that she doesn't want to talk to anyone, they have to drag everything out of her, if she doesn't come to terms and acknowledges that she needs professional help to get back on track, there is no use in keeping her there longer then 3 days. They will try to get her to open up a bit, try to get her to talk with other patients in similar situations, but after monday, if nothing changes, they will have to let her go.
I told this doctor that if she went home on monday she will just try it again, nothing will change and we can't watch her 24/7... she's a grown woman who can go where and do what she pleases, we will loose all grip on the situation.
All I can do is try and get a court order and then they will commit her for 3 weeks, but never longer and it usually only worsen the situation.

I can only hope that she'll be doing a lot of thinking and talking over the weekend and trust that these professionals know what they are doing.

Originally posted by GypsK
reply to post by GypsK

 

I went to see my mom this evening, they had moved her into the psych care unit, it's an open unit where they can walk in and out at will.
She had talked to two different psychologists already and met some of the other patients staying there, the place was better then what she had expected. They convinced her to stay there untill at least monday and have two therapy sessions and one group session each day. I'm surprised she agreed with it. She did say that she wasn't there because she wanted to but because she feels that it is what we are expecting of her. She was very vivid and calm and capable of a normal conversation, I think they gave her medication.... she seemed normal.

She didn't even ask about the cellphone, just said 'I know you won't give it to me'. I asked her why she wanted the phone so bad and she said 'I love him so much'. She said that after everything she knows she will still go back to him or try to get close to him, he is all that matters, not her financials, not her house, only him.

After visiting hours I went to talk to one of her doctors. It turned out that she had lied about everything they asked her, minimalizing the entire situation. Her doc told me that she doesn't want to talk to anyone, they have to drag everything out of her, if she doesn't come to terms and acknowledges that she needs professional help to get back on track, there is no use in keeping her there longer then 3 days. They will try to get her to open up a bit, try to get her to talk with other patients in similar situations, but after monday, if nothing changes, they will have to let her go.
I told this doctor that if she went home on monday she will just try it again, nothing will change and we can't watch her 24/7... she's a grown woman who can go where and do what she pleases, we will loose all grip on the situation.
All I can do is try and get a court order and then they will commit her for 3 weeks, but never longer and it usually only worsen the situation.

I can only hope that she'll be doing a lot of thinking and talking over the weekend and trust that these professionals know what they are doing.

Terrifying situation in your shoes, cause at least in the hospital, worry wont be so bad. Im really not sure why the doctor seemed surprised by your mothers reaction (he seemed surprised in your sentence) I think this is a common reaction. The fact she agreed to stay at least that long is hope she is understanding her actions and coming out to look at her world for a second. Right now i can imagine her thoughts are "the world is against me" etc. which is the reason im not surprised she would admit so freely what happened, why give people who are all against you more ammo right? Keep going to the hospital as much as you can......as much as a hospital is good its such a horrible place to spend much time in. My mother has acute pancreatitis and she is in the hospital alot.....everyday shes in there she knows she will always have her son to come and brighten her day in there for a few hours. Dont make a big issue of the phone, just forget you have it, and hopefully she wont pester on it too much.
Please make sure you let her doctors know what your fears are...like if she shows no improvement and they release her. And try to talk to doctors without your mother around. You are all a bit of an enemy right now and seeing you all conversing about her will make things worse. Even simple things like sitting beside her when a doctor is talking to her explaining something to physically show her "Im on your side mom". Any fears you have about her condition just bring up in private out of views way. And continue to do your research on this matter on other sites, personal experiences are a valuable commodity in this situation, as well as medical knowledge in this area, like what to expect when going in for a 72 hour observation. Knowledge puts you in a secure sense of control which is what one desperately seeks for in these situations.

I should also add, keep vigilant...even though they are professionals, it doesnt mean they are doing EVERYTHING they can for your mother. If you dont agree with an opinion, say so, tell the doctor flat out. Its in your right to do so, and its also in your right to find a second opinion on the matter. I dont mean this to frighten you its just something to be prepared for in case you must do it. DOnt be intimidated by a degree on a wall. He might know the logistics and science but he cant know your mothers true self in such a short amount of time.

Every situation would be unique, I would imagine, but you asked for insight from people who themselves have attempted suicide.

At the core of the state of mind is the realization that the self is completely helpless to control other people, situations, and even oneself. It is an awareness of loss of control, and a deep grief and frustration that the world cannot be moulded the way we desire. There is only one thing left that the self imagines is in one's control, and that is the taking of one's own life. It is the last and final vestige of power the self imagines itself to possess, and in desperation, the self asserts that control.

Whatever other outer and inner circumstances are evident in any individual case, this loss of control and attempt to regain it is at the base of the suicidal mind. I am not an expert, but that has been my observation and personal experience over the course of many years.

In addition, the moment any thought of suicide enters the mind, it immediately attracts a host of negative entities which attach themselves to the auric field of the patient, and these take an effort to shake off. You may consider looking into this aspect and see what kind of support is available, of course only as an adjunct to the professional help.

I wish you the best.

reply to post by GypsK


There's really not much going on in "their mind" except it just needs to STOP. At least that's what it was for me, and I was desperate for it to stop. I got into an abusive relationship with a woman who used my weaknesses against me. Tore me down psychological (and several years later still having problems), I was hit, called names, you wouldn't even believe the stuff she did.

But what drove me over the edge was the fact that I had to walk around on egg shells. If I did one little mistake, it would result in a barrage of both mental and physical abuse that lasted for days. During one of these episodes, she was maybe a *little* more pissed then usual. We were on the second day, the barrage of insults, name calling, threats just wouldn't stop. I begged on my knees for her to stop. That just set her off even more. I was just so desperate for it all to end that I went into the kitchen and slit my wrist with a kitchen knife.

First words she said to me was, "Oh, and who do you think is going to clean this up?!" with a vile look on her face. I eventually ended up in the hospital. The scar is a constant reminder.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the events leading up to the attempted/successful suicide has made you go past a point mentally when you can't see straight. Your family, friends, everything becomes unimportant and all you can think about is "getting away". And the only way you can see of getting out (of a situation) is through dying.

I had a newborn when I did this, I didn't even think about her before I was in the hospital. I just had that desperate need to get away.

Hope this helps OP, I'm sorry for your loss. But your brother just felt the need to get away. Not from your or your mother, but from whatever was pressing him so hard down that he couldn't think of anything else but suicide.

reply to post by GypsK


Well, here goes...

Experience: Only one thing, I believe, could drive me to attempt suicide...Everything was fine, life was grand... But one day, I realize something, and my mind snapped. I woke up from my sheeple sleep. I started seeing reality for what it is. I started realizing the world's deception and cruelty. I couldn't handle it, I didn't see any reason to stick around, my family would get over it eventually.

So I swallowed a LOT of tylenol. I was on the verge of death in a private place. I was seeing "ghosts", people tell me I was hallucinating, perhaps, that's not the point here though. My sight and legs were starting to give out intermittently, and I couldn't think or speak full thoughts. My brother called me on the phone and said that he just wanted to visit me one time before I died....I was so delusional and mentally impaired that I believed his trick, and he sent the police, who rushed me to the hospital where my life was saved...

Post experience: That was 3 years ago. Reality is still too hard for me to handle. I'm horribly depressed most of the time, but now I have a wife and child. They bring things up a little, but I still can not definitively say I will not die by suicide one day.

I still want to die. None of them will ever know it, I will not admit it, they will never have the truth. I can not stand life, and how we spend our time here on earth, and I'd even rather just run away and live in a cabin and hunt my own food than live here. But I press on, just because I feel too guilty dying while people still care about me.



Don't underestimate a suicidal person's ability to lie. Your mother may want to be dead for years, you'll never know it. She could snap at any time, you can't avoid it.

And consider this, if she succeeds, she will be in a happy place. People don't commit suicide, because they are happy here. People commit suicide, because even the concept of not existing at all, becoming nothing, is better than being something here.

It all depends on what presses a person to trying.

You could ask her straight forward questions like,

"How long have you been depressed?"

"What do you think triggered your depression?"

"How long did you think about suicide?"

"What would have it took to make you decide otherwise?"

Maybe she needs a pet or to do charity work.

reply to post by GypsK


Best advice - before she gets on benzodiazepines, look up "benzodiazepine withdrawal" (which can occur just from achieving a tolerance). You'll be quite shocked, but may save her from a living hell.

reply to post by GypsK

Maybe she is being poisoned.
I was.
Silver fillings are 50% mercury the most poisonous non radioactive element.

I'm sorry for the late reply here but I haven't spend a lot of time at home during the last couple of days.

Mom is still in the hospital, they haven't done much during the weekend but today she is sheduled for a psychologic exam where they will try to diagnoze her and see where all of her problems are coming from.
Yesterday she was doing a lot better and she was capable of having a normal conversation. She is not on any kind of medication but will probably start that up later today.

All she's been saying the last days was that she wanted to go home and was not planning on cooperating with the therapists or attend group therapy, she felt like everyone was taking over her life and she was not allowed to make desissions on her own anymore. She did say that what she did was impulsive, she didn't really plan it untill the last half hour before she did it... and that she was really drunk when she started planning. It seems now that she also had an alcohol problem that was far worse then any of us could have expected.

So I explained to her that she was not held there against her will (it's an open institution), I gave her the cellphone and told her how we have fixed all of her financial problems. She cried and was very thankfull. Just before we left the hospital yesterday she said to me that she was going to make new plans for her future, she wants to sell her house and start over in a new place. The house has to many bad memories for her and fixing it up would be to expensive. This is her turning point and everything will have to change, I'm glad she said that out loud in stead of the usual 'I don't care'. She also asked me if I could go with her to make all the arrangements, deal with the potential buyers, search for a new home and do all the talking for her because she didn't think she could do it all by herself. So we are going to start with all that asap, meaning as soon as she leaves the hospital. Better do it right away then let her slip again.
I could almost see her imagining a new house with new furniture. We'll see how it goes from here.

Me and my sister are the only ones she wants contact with, she'd thrown everyone else out of the room last friday and asked them not to come back.
She is convinced that she will go home later today but I highly doubt that. I do think she is going to be ok.

While dealing with my mother I have taken and used a lot of the advice that was offered in this thread and some of it really helped, thank you all for that!

On other posts I haven't replied because I really don't know how to respond on all of your personal experiences. I've read most of it with tears in my eyes and couldn't find the words to make a proper reply. I'm not ignoring you guys, honestly not.
I am very thankfull that , once again, the people of ats came though when I was having a crisis, with supporting words and advice, in this thread and by u2u and I really need to mention how much I appreciate that!

reply to post by GypsK


Sweetie, whatever the future holds, your mum is a lucky lady to have a daughter as beautiful and caring as you

Just stay strong, stay positive, and hopefully in a few years time you and your mum will look back on these days as a distant " time on the edge "

peace n love babes
xx