Swift Boat Veterans Oppose Kerry

It seems the Kerry campaign has begun the distortion, the misleading tales, the lies, the deception, early in the campaign. Don't take my word for it, read what these veterans say about the democratic candidate for President. I will buy tissues for those democrats who will need ample supply come November.....

www.swiftvets.com...

Well, Im not a Kerry or Bush supporter, but at least he ACTUALLY WENT TO WAR, unlike others (we all know who Im hinting at). The fact that he left early is easily explained............he's rich.........so he got out of it.

Bush was rich.........so he got out of it.


Its the way the world works. The poor fight, and the rich sip champagne on their yachts!

You are quite the Republican propagandist aren't you? Why don't you stop spamming ATS with Republican talking points?

Answer one question for me. How many of these Swift Boat Veterans for Truth actually served with Kerry?

As opposed to the others who served with Kerry and say he's a great guy? Believe who you want to believe, but 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth' is funded by conservative Repubilcans for the purpose to bash Kerry. You can believe the lies about Kerry, believe McCain was brainwashed into a commie spy when he was a POW, but Kerry served. How can anyone one say, "Well, sure he volunteered to go to war... but..... but..." He went. Bush didn't. Stop being silly about this Vietnam thing. And if you still want to criticize. Volunteer for Iraq, come back, then maybe you can say something about Kerry's Vietnam record.

EDIT: When I say "you" I mean the general, whoever reads this thread "you", not anyone specific. And let's say the worst is true, Kerry is a lying Vietnam Veteran. Isn't that still better than someone going AWOL , abandoning his country?

[edit on 29-7-2004 by curme]

Ah, accused of spewing Republican propoganda, on a website such as this, the nerve! Hey, one thing for certain, I surmise this to be a rather liberal forum, from the attacks on conservative views, sheesh, calls for my threads to be locked are being made, namecalling, my, my, touchy are we?

Mods, I have posted legitimate items here, if you feel they are otherwise, feel free to delete them.....in the name of free speech for sure!

Curme, the U.S. military would not take an old man such as I, bad back, poor eyesight, much too old.

"Swift Boat Veterans for Truth' is funded by conservative Repubilcans for the purpose to bash Kerry."

Are you saying the website, and the men involved, are illegitimate?

Originally posted by smokenmirrors
Ah, accused of spewing Republican propoganda, on a website such as this, the nerve! Hey, one thing for certain, I surmise this to be a rather liberal forum, from the attacks on conservative views, sheesh, calls for my threads to be locked are being made, namecalling, my, my, touchy are we?

Mods, I have posted legitimate items here, if you feel they are otherwise, feel free to delete them.....in the name of free speech for sure!

Why didn't you answer my question about how many of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth actually served with John Kerry?

I didn't call for this thread to be locked. I called for another thread of yours to be locked, because the topic was already covered in another thread. That is standard procedure on ATS. Stop whining about free speech.

As far as the name calling, I cannot believe that a smear artist like you would complain. So far, you have accused Kerry of being controlled by the Mob, with no proof. You have suggested that he is impotent. You have accused the Kerry campaign of distortion, misleading tales, lies, and deception. Would you care to provide some examples to support these baseless charges?

On the other hand, the Bush campaign, as exemplified by their political ads, does nothing but lie and deceive. And I can provide plenty of examples of that.

Kerry had 13 members of his swift boat with him heading into Boston. Who is this joker.

It is probably Ralph Reed a Bush "strategist". Anyone see him last nite on CNN after Edward's speech? He was former head of the Christian Coalition and I now realize why he moved on. He is a born liar.

Originally posted by donguillermo
Answer one question for me. How many of these Swift Boat Veterans for Truth actually served with Kerry?

Might want to check the website provided a little more closely, instead of jumping to the Democratic defense.

You will find that your answer lies there.

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Kerry had 13 members of his swift boat with him heading into Boston. Who is this joker.

It is probably Ralph Reed a Bush "strategist". Anyone see him last nite on CNN after Edward's speech? He was former head of the Christian Coalition and I now realize why he moved on. He is a born liar.

The driving force behind the Swift Boat Veterans is John O'Neill, a partisan Republican hack who has been dogging Kerry since Richard Nixon was President.

Here is some background from Salon. You will have to get the free day pass to read the article.

Houston attorney John E. O'Neill, the Navy veteran who has emerged recently as a harsh and ubiquitous critic of John Kerry's military service, tells reporters that he has never really been interested in politics and isn't motivated by partisan interests. In the media, O'Neill is often described simply as a Vietnam vet still enraged by the antiwar speeches Kerry delivered more than 30 years ago. That was when O'Neill first came to public attention as a clean-cut, pro-war prot�g� of the Nixon White House's highest-ranking dirty trickster (aside from the late president himself), Charles Colson.

Now O'Neill has emerged from those decades of silence, roaring denunciations of the man who will become the Democratic nominee for president this summer. "I saw some war heroes," he told CNN's Wolf Blitzer on Tuesday. "John Kerry is not a war hero."

To establish his nonpartisan credentials, O'Neill assured the CNN anchor that he was "never contacted" by the Bush-Cheney campaign. What he didn't mention, however, is that his law firm boasts long-standing and powerful connections with the Bush White House.

If you visit the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth website, you will see that John O'Neill is on the Steering Committee. You will also see that the group is a "tax exempt non-partisan public advocacy '527' organization." LOL. Non-partisan. Who do they think they are kidding?

I wonder if it is possible to find out where the money is coming from. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it is coming from the Bush-Cheney campaign or the Republican National Committee.

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by donguillermo
Answer one question for me. How many of these Swift Boat Veterans for Truth actually served with Kerry?

Might want to check the website provided a little more closely, instead of jumping to the Democratic defense.

You will find that your answer lies there.

Since when is asking a question jumping to the Democratic defense? I looked on the website, and all I see are quotes from officers in his chain of command and people who served on other boats. The fact that these officers are quoted does not mean they are members of the group. If you are talking about John O'Neill, he never served with Kerry. He came to Viet Nam two months after Kerry left.

In perusing the website, I see no evidence that anyone who actually served with John Kerry is a member of the group. When I say served with John Kerry, I mean on the same boat. Perhaps you can provide me with an example.

Originally posted by donguillermo
In perusing the website, I see no evidence that anyone who actually served with John Kerry is a member of the group. When I say served with John Kerry, I mean on the same boat. Perhaps you can provide me with an example.

What is the difference if they served on the same boat or were part of the same division? They all stayed in the same huts, they all worked the same rivers, etc etc. Doesn't their opinion count at all, or are you just willing to throw it away?

I am more concerned with what his Fitreps say. That is where you can really see the kind of officer he was.

Originally posted by donguillermo
Perhaps you can provide me with an example.

Sure. The Tenth Brother from Time.com

Over the next three years Gardner served as gunner on four different Swift boats, each with a different commanding officer. His least favorite was his last: Lieutenant (j.g.) John F. Kerry of PCF-44. When describing Kerry he unloads choice adjectives, �opportunist� being his favorite. His most colorful phrase is claiming that all Kerry wanted to do was �save his lily-white ass.� Up until now he has kept his resentment mostly to himself. �I�ve told a few of my friends that he was an asshole,� Gardner says. �But I�m not looking to make news.�

No two men remember combat exactly the same way so Kerry has been extremely lucky that 9 out of his 10 crewmen have almost identical stories about his valor during various firefights and skirmishes. But memories can vary from person to person; Gardner insists that the Kerry he knew in Vietnam was a singularly un-heroic figure. He dismisses the glowing eyewitness accounts of his crewmates Jim Wasser (Radarman), Bill Zaladonis (Petty Officer), Drew Whitlow (Boatswain�s Mate) and Stephen Hatch (Boatswain�s Mate) as bunk. �Kerry sat some of them down and convinced them to buy into his side of what happened over there,� he explains in bizarrely conspiratorial fashion with no evidence to back him up. �When you�re as persuasive as Kerry it�s not hard to make a guy change something that he saw.�

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by donguillermo
In perusing the website, I see no evidence that anyone who actually served with John Kerry is a member of the group. When I say served with John Kerry, I mean on the same boat. Perhaps you can provide me with an example.

What is the difference if they served on the same boat or were part of the same division? They all stayed in the same huts, they all worked the same rivers, etc etc. Doesn't their opinion count at all, or are you just willing to throw it away?

Of course their opinion counts. This discussion got started because I asked how many members of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth actually served with Kerry. I didn't explicitly say "on the same boat", but that's what I meant.

I am more concerned with what his Fitreps say. That is where you can really see the kind of officer he was.

Agreed. My understanding is that Kerry's fitness reports are uniformly excellent. I believe this was discussed when Kerry released his service records. I am also pretty sure that some of the same officers who are quoted as criticizing Kerry wrote glowing fitness reports for him.

donguillermo says

In perusing the website, I see no evidence that anyone who actually served with John Kerry is a member of the group. When I say served with John Kerry, I mean on the same boat. Perhaps you can provide me with an example.

OK, ZeddicusZulZorander, you have brought up the example of Stephen Gardner. Now if you can show that he is a member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, your example will be valid. In case you haven't been following the conversation, that is the group referred to in the above quote.

Originally posted by Jazzerman
Well, Im not a Kerry or Bush supporter, but at least he ACTUALLY WENT TO WAR, unlike others (we all know who Im hinting at).

well if he went to war or not, he still try every possible way to save his own ass. so what if he has 3 purple hearts. i bet he went outta his way to get hit and get those medals. he was there for 4 mounths. i have more respect for everyone in the 101st from WWII who didnt even get wounded or just had one purple heart. why? they didnt go outta their way to get hit and go home.

Off-topic rant

Originally posted by donguillermo
You are quite the Republican propagandist aren't you? Why don't you stop spamming ATS with Republican talking points?

You have got to be kidding me!?! The person that starts a thread on every anti-Bush article or website on the entire internet? ATS is not a site dedicated to removing Bush from office. Nor is it a site for liberals only. Yes ther are a lot of people here that do not like Bush, but there are some that feel differently and their opinion is just as valid as yours.

In another thread you accused me of posting only rhetorical BS. I'm sure to you it may seem that way, and perhaps there is some truth to that. Back in the old days, when I first came here (only three months ago, but the difference is startling) there were threads where issues were debated.

We debated taxes, gay marriage, abortion, school prayer. We talked about the differences in the parties, and the good and bad of both. Then, things changed. The political debates became just the same old Bush bashing arguements, one after another. I lost interest, started spending more time on the ring hunt (which paid off I guess) and the more "esoteric" threads because just tossing insults back and forth is not my idea of debate.

So yeah don, maybe my posts don't live up to your (or my) standards anymore. But I must say, the purely negative posts by yourself, and gmcnulty before you, are some of the reasons.

Off-topic rant over

All I know is that Kerry is a decorated war heroe and bush is a coward, so that is all I need to know.

Originally posted by marg6043
All I know is that Kerry is a decorated war heroe and bush is a coward, so that is all I need to know.

Thank you for making my point, Marg.

No I am not making your point, I am making mine I come from a family of members that has served and died as heroes for this country and I am proud of them even when they died, I respect any man that serve his country but I despised cowards and bush is one, so no you did not got my point at all.:shk:

While my father lost members of his family in Vietnam bush was living at large in Texas I will never got to know them and I never will.