Atheists Seek Chaplain Role in the Military

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Why not have atheists to talk to?

The military has them.

They are called psychiatrists, psychologists and therapists.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


From what I understand from the article, this "chaplain" WOULD be an atheist. Of course, he wouldn't be a chaplain in the conventional sense, but they wouldn't be comforting atheists with things like, "God has a plan" and so on.

there are no atheists in foxholes.


ponder the meaning of that saying and where it came from and comprehend its meaning.


and i agree it is stupid if you dont want to beleive in a god fine

it you want to beleive in a god fine

but the reasons chaplins do exist in the military it is because the military has a long tradition and to give inspiration and faith to those when they need it the most.

athestic chaplins sounds stupid.

The only problem here is with the word 'chaplain'. Obviously this person would be more of a personal counselor. "Atheists Seek Personal Counselor in the Military" doesn't sound as fun to argue about, but it's surely a perfectly reasonable request.

But aren't there already personal counselors in the military???

I'm pretty militant atheist...but this seems kind of absurd. In fact, I think it hurts atheism to start equating it to a religion. AS long as there is some sort of counselor that atheists can turn to that will not bring up an invisible man as the solution to their problems, then I'm cool with that.

Originally posted by LazerTron
But aren't there already personal counselors in the military???

I don't know. Are there? I wonder about consequences of "seeing a counselor". No one bats an eye if someone goes to talk to the chaplain, but if someone goes to their counselor, it might carry a certain stigma. I don't know how it is in the military.

, I think it hurts atheism to start equating it to a religion.

I do, too. I think this is a movement toward recognition of atheism as a valid position in the military more than wanting someone to talk to.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Remember that nut job who shot up Fort Hood? My memory is that he was a counselor/psychiatrist for the troops...and if my memory is right, then they already have someone to turn to...though I'm not sure that the Fort Hood shooter is really the poster boy for military counselors...

Originally posted by LazerTron
Remember that nut job who shot up Fort Hood? My memory is that he was a counselor/psychiatrist for the troops...and if my memory is right, then they already have someone to turn to...though I'm not sure that the Fort Hood shooter is really the poster boy for military counselors...

Yeah, I don't want to talk about my problems with that guy. He's got enough of his own.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Why not have atheists to talk to?

The military has them.

They are called psychiatrists, psychologists and therapists.

While in the Military, I never saw a "therapist" ever... meaning if they existed I never saw one. Especially not while I was at sea... now granted I exited in 1997, so it's been a while.

Originally posted by LazerTron
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Remember that nut job who shot up Fort Hood? My memory is that he was a counselor/psychiatrist for the troops...and if my memory is right, then they already have someone to turn to...though I'm not sure that the Fort Hood shooter is really the poster boy for military counselors...

He worked with troops after they returned home, as military counselors generally do. As the service member above commented, counselors are not part of military life on active duty. Chaplains very much play that role. This misunderstanding may be a cultural issue. If you don't know that the functional reality for decades has been that a chaplain = counselor for troops, then it probably seems odd.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

From what I understand from the article, this "chaplain" WOULD be an atheist. Of course, he wouldn't be a chaplain in the conventional sense, but they wouldn't be comforting atheists with things like, "God has a plan" and so on.

Thats what a therapist does.

The issue is ordination. Chaplains attend religious schools, attaining a master's degree worth of education in some form of theology and are ordained by their faith.

I can't see how that would work for an atheist.

Also, the atheists pushing this are pure materialists, the majority of them are not going to accept some pantheist view of reality with spiritual energies and gnosis. If you want that maybe we can get some Gnostic or New Age chaplains. Though people who follow such beliefs tend to be pacifists and stay far away from the military.

Personally, the neo pagans need their own chaplain first. Every unit I have been in has had more Neo-Pagans than atheists. I havn't seen a New Ager in the military. The Neo Pagans need the same kind of support the Sikhs, Buddhists, and Hindus get.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


We have all kinds of stuff now, since the war began, even therapy dogs. PTSD is rampant. Most of the chaplains I have seen have been useless in this regard, hence the need for actual medical professionals.

I don't see a big deal except for one MAJOR thing...

Atheists and Secular Humanists will maintain until they turn blue that neither is a religion. This being the case, they don't have clergy and therefore cannot possibly have a chaplain. You can't have a religious representative if you're not religious. Seriously, my mind is exploding.

I mean, I don't really care either way; it's just the hypocrisy involved in their requesting such an official that bothers me. It just doesn't make sense.

Atheists should have the same access to counseling as any other service member. If counselors are only available when the troops come home, and religious chaplains are available while they are serving overseas...then clearly there should be an atheist equivalent to a chaplain. An atheist should not have to go to someone with their issues and be told to turn to god to solve them. However, calling them a chaplain would not be my preference.

reply to post by LazerTron


We have people in theater to help with PTSD and various other issues. We have entire treatment facilities available to those who need help while deployed. So the lack of counsel is not a problem.

Then my fellow atheists are being stupid and just trying to stir up trouble.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

We have all kinds of stuff now, since the war began, even therapy dogs. PTSD is rampant. Most of the chaplains I have seen have been useless in this regard, hence the need for actual medical professionals.

Best advice I ever got was from a chaplain... and it was not spiritual based at all...

I dunno, I think it's key that who ever is facilitating the treatment, that it's specific to the person... thus, if atheists want chaplains, I say let them have them.... Being an atheist is a unique experience for a human, just as being a religious person is, and medicine can say little about matters of the heart...

But saying "let atheists have chaplains" is like saying "let the male soldiers have tampons'. It makes no sense, and doesn't apply. We have dictionaries for a reason...and there is a definition for "chaplain"...and atheists simply don't need the services of a chaplain. You'd just have to call it something else...a counselor or whatever...and if the military has counselors, then there's no need for an atheist counselor. It's kind of absurd, really.

reply to post by LazerTron


The fact is, for many years, seeing a chaplain has been a form of support well beyond the religious. Are you willing to agree that if atheists do not have reasonable access to a counselor that they can use freely, and that if religious people do use the chaplain for non-religious counseling, then it does make sense? Even if for some reason you don't agree that those premises hold, surely you can see that the chain of reasoning follows?

reply to post by LazerTron


The services of a chaplain are often non spiritual and aimed toward counseling... The kind of counseling that any human, regardless of belief in a god, requires