Isaiah 53

Why has Isaiah 53 been removed from the Hebrew Bible, the Tanakh? Isaiah 53 appears in the complete Isaiah scroll found with the Dead Sea scrolls and is on display in it's entirety in Jerusalem. Why did the Council of Jamnia redefine Mosaic Judaism into the Talmudic Judaism we have today?

Anyways, here is Isaiah 53, can someone explain to me why the Hebrews didn't want this passage in their Tanakh?

Isaiah 53

1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Sounds like the story of Julian Assange

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Just a heads up -

I haven't checked any more recent editions, but my copy of tanakh from Jerusalem Publication Society (purchased in '99) does contain Isaiah 53 - I'm pretty sure anyway, has been some time since I've looked at it but will check when get home.

Usually, jews just try to interpret the servant of YHVH as referring to Israel itself based on context of other verses, or possibly sometime as other entities (Cyrus of persia, etc.). Granted, none really fit this scenario so can't move them away from a vicarious redemptive sacrifice, but still...

Given the strict requirements in copying tanakh - almost bordering on obsession - I'd be very surprised to find that they had completely edited out an entire chapter. Usually the biggest issue you'd run into is disputed translations (such as the almah virgin/maiden split and sections of Psalm 22 regarding pierced hands and feet/lion), or the source material they draw on to move away from christian interpretations.

As far as why they'd want to disregard or misinterpret this section, though, that much is fairly obvious on its face. Do you have a source or citation on this being actually removed, by chance?

Thanks,
Steve

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Um...this is about the state of Israel. The passage about seed should sort of highlight that. Israel is often referred to in the male third person in Hebrew scripture.

Whatever the case may be, it speaks of YHSWH. Here in Acts 8, Philip is commanded to speak to this eunuch who was reading Isaiah but did not understand it, so Philip explained that Isaiah was speaking of the Christ, and he directly quotes Isaiah 53:

26And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.

27And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,

28Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.

29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

30And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Interesting...


Isaiah 53 codes

reply to post by NOTurTypical


It has been put upon my heart to share this with those who are True Seekers of The Word.
This is to be shared at this time and will soon be in print at the appointed time.
Taken from The Covenant Word of YAH:

YashaYAHUW (ISAIAH) (The Savior is YAHUW) 53

1 Who has believed our message of the Salvation of YAHUW? And to whom has YAHUW, The Right Hand of YAHUWAH (YHWH), been revealed?
2 For He will grow up before mankind as a young child, even like a small shoot up out of a dry ground! He will have no dazzling form nor royal appearance and when we shall see him, He will have no great handsomeness that we should all desire Him as our Leader.
3 He will be despised and rejected by men, a man of much suffering and acquainted with hardships and as one from whom normal men turn their faces! He will be despised and most of mankind will not love Him.
4 Yet surely He will bear our sickness and carry our suffering, yet man will consider Him cursed, struck by the Almighty Loving YA of All Creation, and afflicted.
5 But He will be pierced for our transgressions. He will be crushed for our iniquities. The punishment that brought us our eternal peace will be on Him and by His wounds we will be healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray, everyone has turned to his own way and YAHUWAH will lay on Him the sins of us all.
7 He will be horribly beaten, yet when He is suffering, He will not open His mouth in protest! As a lamb that is led to the slaughter and as a sheep that before its shearers is mute, so He will not open His mouth.
8 By oppression and Wordless judgment He will be taken away! As for My Servant’s generation, only a remnant among them will know that He will be cast out out of the land of the living because of the disobedience of My People to whom the lashes for sins was due?
9 They will make His grave with the wicked and with a Wordless rich man in His death, although he will have done no violence, neither will there be any lies come from His mouth.
10 It will horribly displease YAHUWAH to see Him wounded for our sins. It will put Him into great grief when you shall make His soul an offering for sin! Yet He shall see His Beloved Seed rise again and He shall prolong His YAoms even for evermore and the pleasure of YAHUWAH shall forever go forth out of His hand!
11 He shall see The Light of His Being and shall be satisfied. By the knowledge of Him, shall My Righteous Servant justify many and He shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I share with Him My Power in YHWH the Great Spirit and He shall divide this reward with the strong and intelligent because he poured out His soul to death and was numbered with the transgressors, yet He bore the sin of us all and made intercession for all the transgressors who repent.

Please keep in my the following of your translation of ISAiAH 53

First of all, do you think it would actually please ANY father to see their son hurt and killed? NO!

2nd Do you know the root of the word LORD? it is from Baal... Lots of info available on the net about that.

3rd and last The name ISAIAH was NOT the name of this prophet at all....
It is YASHAYAHUW this means The Savior is YAHUW just like this chapter had prophesied and the YEHUDI and Scribs and Pharisees conspired to remove the proof of it!

4th our Savior was also called YAHUWYASHA meaning YAHUW THE SAVIOR....
YASHAYAHUW's (ISAIAH's) name actually gave us the KEY to our Saviors Name and what HIS NAME actually would be when He would come..

THis is why YaHuW and YaHuWaH and all the names of the Scriptures that had YAH and UW and AH in their names was removed and replaced with these KJV names like Isaiah.

MathithYAHUW
MarkUW
LukAH
YaHuWchanon
etc etc etc

The Greatest True Conspiracy is that of THE NAME being removed from mankinds lips....

Today Know this!
"The Mystery that has been hidden for ages and generations. Yet now it has been revealed to His Covenant Family". --ColossiYAns 1:26

reply to post by Praetorius


Also, as to YH"V"H... There was No "V", it was a double U UU or W today. No Vah sound it was a uu or ew sound not VVVVVVV as that was not part of the AbraUW way from AHdam to YaHuW.

YHWH said as YaH UUUUU aHHHH YaHuWaH. The vowel point of a always came before the H.

aHleleuWYaH!!!!!!!

The Name above ALL other names and "The Name" ---IS-- Very important! Regardless of wordless ones who say that His Name is Unimportant!

Keeping the 10 Covenant Commands is what we are commanded to do forever! It is Eternal!

II MoshAH 20:7
7 "Do not treat My Name YHWH (YAHUWAH) Almighty Loving YA of All Creation as unimportant for I cannot hold him sinless who treats My Name as unimportant, for it is The First Gate of Salvation.

Jesus is from Iesus which means "the son of zeus".... This was put into all bibles of our time yet the letter J as per Websters dictionary was only invented/used about 500 years ago. Also JeZeus or Jesus is another way of saying Son of Satan. Pagan peoples of the day had SUS in their names, like King HerodeSUS who had YaHuWchanon the Immerser aka John the Baptist beheaded.....
Sus was put into their names to honor their god. The same way the AbraYA put YaH uW and aH in their names.

JeHovah is from the root HOVAH or son of the Ruinator or Mischief Maker. Hovah is in Strongs Concordance with that definition. Our Father is not of Mischief or Ruin or Destruction but is our Father who is Love.
All the times in "bibles" where you read about Him supposedly KILLING innocent people or being unjust is a lie and changes perpetrated by the Yehudi-Pharisees-Scribes and the Corporate Churches of this world!

our Father is YaHuWaH and His Son who is His Right Arm is YaHuW, now the risen YaHuWaH, the given name by His Father to His Son. The Name above all other Names.

Thanks for that chapter in Isaiah. I can see the Jews would not want this chapter in their book because it talks about Jesus the Christ. The Son of God that came to die over 2,000 years ago. Israel has rejected anything to do with Christ and still to this day deny He is of the Father. God is so wonderful and His plan and purpose of His word is amazing and strikes like a double edged sword. Either the Word of God brings life or the judgement of God to anyone who hears it. It cuts deep into our hearts and Jesus reveals all truth because He is "the way, the truth and the life". Judgement Day is May 21, 2011. Be ready!

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Bible codes are a statistical anomaly that works with any other text. Christians in general need to stop bringing them up as they are based on selection bias and post-hoc reasoning.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Why has Isaiah 53 been removed from the Hebrew Bible...

Probably because it tells you christ is the savior of the world, and as far as i know Jews don't believe he was the messiah...

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Thanks madness - I've seen these floating around for awhile and have been wondering.

I remember some gentleman - glasses, male pattern baldness but can't really his name offhand - who had posted rebuttals using Moby Dick and others as I recall, but from the bible code side they claimed statistical superiority based on the 'tightness' of the code groupings, as well as volume.

By chance, could you direct me to any information on more extensive reviews and counter-opinions? I thought they were neat when I initially found out, but never got around to much independent research...and honestly at this point I'm a bit worn from work so can't muster the effort.

reply to post by Praetorius


OK, I did come across Gibran, the dead sea scrolls, Calvin and Hobbes, various versions of the bible, a lot of my girlfriend's books, a chess set, and all sorts of other assorted fare, but did not find my tanakh in the attic.

I will get some batteries for my flashlight and look again this weekend. I'm done for now, my head hurts. I did, however, find a much-needed lighter THAT STILL WORKS in my bookshelf. Will validate OP claim in the days to come. Or not.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I don't know which version of the Jewish bible you're looking at that doesn't have this chapter, but the one put out by the oldest publisher of Jewish books in America (JPS) has it in it... here is a link to the online version... www.breslov.com... ...

Hold on let me look into this further....

I have heard this claim before... after a short search I found it to be hogwash...

It seems like this is an out and out deception fabricated by Christians to make their case look better...

Here is a link debunking the claim.... www.messianicjewishtruth.com...

Here is one argument against it applying to Jesus ....obeytorah.blogspot.com...

Here is a purely Rabbinical Jewish interpretation of the Isaiah 53... www.outreachjudaism.org...

With Love!

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Bible codes are a statistical anomaly that works with any other text. Christians in general need to stop bringing them up as they are based on selection bias and post-hoc reasoning.

Irrelevant counter-argument. The skeptics claim that words or phrases can be found in any other "long work of literature such as Moby Dick".

Isaiah 53 has 12 verses.

Isaiah 53

1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

Who will believe what is said here? Who will understand what is being said?

2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

What has no form or comeliness nor beauty to be desired?

3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

What is rejected of men, feels our grief, what do we hide our faces from, and esteem not?

4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

What bears our grief, carries our sorrows, and yet we regard as stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted?

5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

What is wounded for our every transgression, what is bruised for our every iniquity, what heals us when our peace is disturbed?

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

What have we turned away from since birth and reasoned our own way in this world?

7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

What is oppressed afflicted, yet cannot open it's mouth?

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

What is not found in prisons or in judgement and when will the generation arise that returns to it? What is not found in this land of the living?

9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

What is buried in the wicked and dies in the rich? What does NO violence nor has any deceit?

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Indeed it is bruised and put to grief and it's soul is the true offering for sin. Yet it's days are prolonged and that which is pleasurable to the LORD prospers by it. What is it?

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

What sees of it's travails and is satisfied for it is a righteous servant which justifies many and bears THEIR iniquities.

12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

What is regarded in the great and leads the strong to divide their spoils, and pours out it's soul unto death, is found in the transgressors, bares the sins of many, and always makes an intercession for the transgressors?

What is it being talked about here?

Your CONSCIENCE.

That inner compass within us all that we reason against to sin against others, that we despise for it stands in the way of our own glory, that we hate when it interferes with our own desires, that we do not heed when it comes to our own survival, yet we turn to to justify our own deeds, that sees our iniquities and justifies ourself in our mind.

Christ was the living example of that which is within all of us. We reasoned against his teachings and we reason against our very own conscience.

If we did not, we would have to tear down this world of iniquity and build one based on that inner compass, our conscience. We would have to build a world where no man had to reason against it again, for iniquity would not exist.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Just curious as to where you heard this info to begin with...

A book, a preacher or is this one of those old wives tales that gets twisted in the telephone game?

Or perhaps there is a perspective which I missed in my short foray on the matter..

I just found it odd you had no reponse...

Oh my gosh... I just remembered after reading that, when I was a kid I had to memorize Isaiah 53:6 for some play at church. I don't even remember what the play was about, but I do remember that particular verse.

"The Messiah --what is his name?...The Rabbis say, The Leper Scholar, as it is said, `surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him a leper, smitten of God and afflicted...'" (Sanhedrin 98b)

Babylonian Talmud