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Supreme Court rules that companies can block class-action lawsuits

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posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


This creates quite a dilemma as the big corporations success is as integral to our success as any other party. Those who wish for them to fall, write their own financial epitaph. As flawed as capitalism is, no system that performs as well has yet been devised. We just keep doing the same things over and over again expecting a different result.

The move against big business is as destructive as corruption in big business and the courts. That is the real truth here. Signing a contract and then opposing it after signing it is just as corrupt although on a smaller financial scale. Those who sign them and then fight them are the same as the corporations who pen the contracts. It's true that any company or individual are only as good as their word and when either breaks their word or cheats the other, they bear equal blame.

We've developed into a society ran by frauds, ruling over frauds, with all parties wanting either more than their share, lying and cheating to get more than they should or demanding the same for less work. There are no innocent parties here. When honesty and integrity went out the door with the advent of radicals from both sides taking over, is where the problem began and is.

Everyone from the entitlement crowd, to the crooks in the banks and on Wall Street share blame and yet they all blame everyone but themselves. A dishonest consumer is just a potential crooked CEO who failed to take their dishonesty to the same level. Both groups are trying to get something for nothing and their dishonesty all plays a part in our economic woes.

We see proof almost daily as people all over the world riot for more handouts and demand that those who earn the money give it to them. I fail to see how they are any more or less a part of our woes. Those going after company killing, job killing settlements from corrupt Juries, orchestrated by corrupt Lawyers are the same.

By dividing us and encouraging this behavior from both sides we find the real dangers, masked behind names like Republican or Democrat, Progressive or Conservative. A crook by any name is a still a crook. Right now we are being carefully manipulated to breed hate and division and way to many are blind to facts.




posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by questcequecest
so its fair for the people on the side called a 'company' to defend against one person called a human
but if a bunch of people want to go against the company they cant?





Exactly. Because now corporations (a collective of people doing business) are treated as individuals. It has somehow become, in our new bizzaro world, that a collection of individuals (think unions also) is seen as a threat to the rights of corporations (now seen as individuals). It's like the SC has completely flipped the concepts of a corporation and an individual completely upside down.



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 08:19 PM
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Funny, Guess Sony will be getting off scott free
I kid. Though I think the law firm suing Sony in the class action suit is just out for money, more than the consumer.
edit on 28-4-2011 by thesolutionisrevolution because: mistake



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


Your looking at the economy through the distorted lens of Keynesian economics. That old tired bit about "whatever is good for corporations is good for us" is only valid in a Keynesian model and since such a model is inherently and systematically flawed, it is unequivocally false. Free market capitalism and maybe even anarcho-capitalism (of Austrian School variety) is the only truly sound and fair form of capitalism.

The world [economy] according to Keynes, is short-lived and only designed to benefit a few, at the expense of the majority. The economy according to Mises, is one that could benefit the majority, maybe even all and which can last and produce forever. No corruption needed.

We are currently living under a Keynesian model of economics, hence the systematic problems. With this economy, whatever is best for the corporations, is still only best for the corporations, as this model is not only doomed to eventually fail, but it also requires liberty to be subdued.


--airspoon


edit on 28-4-2011 by airspoon because: added last paragraph



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555


This creates quite a dilemma as the big corporations success is as integral to our success as any other party. Those who wish for them to fall, write their own financial epitaph. As flawed as capitalism is, no system that performs as well has yet been devised. We just keep doing the same things over and over again expecting a different result.


Really? No other system performs as well? So communism was not able to destroy one of the largest and most powerful nations on the planet?

And no they arent necessary to our success. They are the reason we are failing. Free market capitalism was never designed to function properly with corporations taking over the government and making the rules. The have had more freedom from regulation than ever before in the last several decades and with that freedom from regulation they managed to utterly destroy the American economy.

This is the second time corporate globalism has crashed the American economy. They do not have Americas best interests at heart. They cant. A) they have no heart, they are an artificial entity and B) the only thing they can care about is profit. Thats the only motive written into their form.



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


You need to reread what I said I think.

Do you think dishonest customers, frivolous law suits heard by dishonest juries do not harm our economy or drive up prices. This has nothing to do with what you say. It has to do with the lack of honesty and integrity on all sides. It has to do with it becoming a culture, carefully orchestrated by our politicians playing both sides of the fence. It has to do with the so called Parties keeping us all at each others throats to divide us to control. Racism and Class Warfare are the same animal in a different skin.

The concept all businesses are crooks and that all consumers are innocent little sheep is a lie people tell themselves as they demand more handouts for doing nothing or the don't bother to pay obligations to make themselves feel better about their dishonesty.

Yes there are a lot of crooks in big business who do a great deal of damage. There are also plenty of crooks cloaking their own dishonesty by pretending all businesses are bad.

Pretending an Entitlement Society is the answer to anything is so intellectually dishonest it brands the person spouting such nonsense. For any system to work, all sides have to be honest. That is a simple fact.

Surely you know people who are playing the system for all their worth and are they not the ones screaming the loudest? For instance those who can pay their bills who instead walk out on their mortgages to play the system? They do harm that is from just as much dishonesty as the banks who made the bad loans. Both sides are crooks and what they do hurts us all.

Take a hard look at Greece who carried the Entitlement Society to it's highest level and imagine that happening here. Whenever the government takes it all over as the Progressives wish, it always ends the same way. People screaming for more candy after the cookie jar runs dry and who pretend they do not understand that you can not hand out what you don't have.

Look at overpaid Union Workers demanding more, even though they know they are part of the problem. It's Human Nature and we can't fight that. We can only control it and hopefully enough honest leaders come along to control the madness. An Entitlement Society dictates you must give up Freedom and that is also a simple fact. Ignoring History is what keeps us on this merry-go-round.



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


My post above has everything to do with yours above that. The people of this country do not benefit when the corporate world benefits. Superficially we do, but it is all based on a house of cards and if we personally don't shoulder the burden, the generations after ours certainly will. When this economy tanks, it will be our burden, not that of the corporations, as they just move on to the next consumer economy. Many Americans are being indoctrinated and falsely lead to believe that if the corporations are doing good, so will we as they are our economy. This is a fallacy and our economy is crumbling because of it. It is supposed to be the other way around and it was back in the day when we prospered.

This latest ruling will only benefit the mega-corporations, those that are big enough to garner favoritism from government, thus apply force towards the people. These are really the only contracts in which the people won't be able to apply choice, thus enter into the contract on the corporate terms.

As far as frivolous suits, that is what a court is for (to decide what is frivolous). Frivolous lawsuits aren't as damaging to corporations as one might think, especially the larger corporations (who just happen to be the only beneficiary of this latest SCOTUS ruling), as they all have legal teams on salary. If a group of people bring a frivolous lawsuit against a corporation, then the court identifies it and moves to throw it out, often with the court fees and even damages paid by the plaintiff.

Generally speaking, frivolous lawsuits have traditionally benefitted the corporations, when they are the plaintiffs that is. As was mentioned earlier, they have paid legal teams who can take the individual to court on a frivolous suit and because most individual citizens don't have a salaried legal team, you get sunk in debt before you can ever get the chance to have it thrown out on grounds of frivolity.

Frivolous lawsuits don't plague the corporate world. If anything, it helps the corporate world, as they have the upper hand. Just look at Monsanto for a single instance, though it certainly isn't limited there. We are all familiar with what's going on with that company and their record of frivolous suits, due to the wildly popular documentary entitled Food Inc. and the plethora of farmers being extorted out of their livelihood through the threat and practice of frivolous lawsuits.

In short, it should be left to the courts to decide what is frivolous and what isn't. If we allow the corporations to decide, then every suit against them will be frivolous. The corporations have the army of lawyers to deal with lawsuits and these lawyers are getting paid whether they sit in an office all day, or a court room.

Make no mistake about it, the corporate world doesn't need any help to benefit and profit in this current economic climate. The people on the other hand continue to get screwed, as our Constitutionally protected rights are being yanked and handed over to the corporations. Our liberties aren't simply dissolving, instead they are being given over to the corporate entities. It is a lose-lose for the American people and a win-win for the corporate world.


--airspoon

edit on 28-4-2011 by airspoon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 09:17 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555


Look at overpaid Union Workers demanding more, even though they know they are part of the problem.


Look at bankers and CEOs and Wall Street hot shots demanding more, even in a year when they are making record profits, and the American economy is crumbling around them, and they make more in a year than many Americans will make in their LIFE. Even though they know they caused the problem.


Originally posted by Blaine91555
. Ignoring History is what keeps us on this merry-go-round.


Wow. Something you said I can agree with. Although I know you arent looking at the same things I am. You are looking for the part of history where unions crashed the economy and destroyed the most powerful nation on Earth............................and it never happened. Unions ushered in the most prosperous period in Americas history because it provided the economy with consumers who could buy luxuries, and educate their children and who were the economic engine of the USA.



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 09:18 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


This ruling does not really make sense whatsoever. I was under the impression that its the defendant who gets to chose whether they will allow a class-action suit against them. Hopefully someone with an understanding of business law can further explain this ruling. I always thought a defendant could either chose to allow (or even require in some cases) a class action lawsuit so that the lawyers wouldn't be doing the same case over and over again. It seems like corporations are actually losing out here if people can still file suit individually without forced arbitration.

And also, I was under the impression that a court can require arbitration regardless of whether it was even in the contract! How is that any less of a bum deal for a consumer who insists on court?



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by Watts


Who's to say when. All it takes is one little catalyst. Who knows what that may be. With the LA riots, although it was a somewhat different situation it could be looked at as symbolic. Cops(corporations/wealthy) getting away with the beating of a helpless outnumbered minority man(middle class/poor) turned into an all out riot.



But who really won and lost in those riots? The poor people in the inner city basically destroyed their own neighborhoods. The wealthy were not 'cowering in the corner', as you say.

And that would be the same for your fantasy of 'riots'. It would only benefit those currently in power. When has violent upheaval EVER worked to create a better world?



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555

The concept all businesses are crooks and that all consumers are innocent little sheep is a lie people tell themselves as they demand more handouts for doing nothing or the don't bother to pay obligations to make themselves feel better about their dishonesty.


What a fascinating conflation of issues. So you are saying the existence of some 'frivolous lawsuits' mandates the complete removal of the right for anyone to even bring a case to court?



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by Maxmars
The corporate citizen vs. humans.

The government subjugates the humans for the benefit of the corporate citizen.... how so?

By eliminating avenues of redress and further actualizing the essential business doctrine of 'externality.'

Humans in this model are to consume and labor; .... consume all that which the corporate citizen can attach profit margins to, and labor for the corporate citizen in the most economically beneficial way for the employer.

Thanks, Supreme Court Justices... guild members of the legislated BAR monopoly, and progenitors of the concept that corporations are citizens.... you've underwhelmed me again.


This is a blueprint for Wal-Mart's business model. Sam Walton would roll over in his grave if he knew what his business has become. This company moves into an area, destroys every business in the district, forces everyone to work for them, and since they're the only company in town, everyone's paychecks are being poured right back into the business. Its like the old song goes; "I owe my soul to the company store". Once they've successfully kill a town and people are forced to move because Wal-Mart has no new positions open, Wal-Mart downsizes, firing 1/3 of the employees, or forcing them out by cutting their hours drastically. Afterall; if you can get them to quit they forgo their unemployment benefits.
And now they're stripping people of their constitutional rights by buying laws into being. Literally makes me sick to my stomach.
edit on 28-4-2011 by Mactire because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:24 PM
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Even if you find the loophole to this and can still deliver a crushing economic blow to a corporation, the investors will still win anyways because their buddies in the court system will tip them off early so they can get on that insider trading and sell the stock before it crashes.

So even if you kill 1 corporation, the head honcho will still make a profit. And then reinvest in dozens of new corporate ventures and do the same gig all over times twenty.

What we need is a realistic approach that focuses on the roots of the problem, rather than symptoms of it.

Vote Yes for Eliminating Corporate Person-hood Status.
Push for it and seek to get a bill written and voted on. Please.

This is like a game of chess...let's make a power play here.



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:25 PM
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Big corporations sure love that ruling.

The thing about arbitration is that THE CORPORATION ALMOST ALWAYS WIN.

With class action lawsuits, they have a MUCH MUCH MUCH harder time winning.


America just got screwed royally.

And don't be fooled by the 5-4 vote, it's to make you think there's 4 judges that voted for the people. Fact is, it would have probably been 9-0 if it wasn't for the riots that would have ensued.


And you ain't see nothing yet... there's a case that will be heard in the next few months (probably before 2012) at the supreme court about the constitutionality of public funding for elections.

Guess what happens if they rule against it?? Well BOYAAAAAAAAA the corporations will totally own America... he who gets the most money wins! If you thought it was like that already, it's just going to get worse.
edit on 28-4-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by airspoon
 


What a surprise.

You know, the damage corporations are doing to our economy, and our Constitution and thus America itself should allow us to label them "enemy combatants." They could not be destroying America any more effectively if they were shelling us.

And that would allow us to try our politicians who are aiding and abetting them as traitors.

Economic war and destruction is still war and destruction.

Welcome to America Inc.


Man forget about their damage to the economy when they're the ones who run it.

Be worried about the damage they are causing to our environment and the ecosystems of the world



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by prolific
Man forget about their damage to the economy when they're the ones who run it.

Be worried about the damage they are causing to our environment and the ecosystems of the world


You are saying it in a way that many of them will not understand it.

Say it this way so it appeals to their ego and programming more :
"Be worried about the damage they are causing to our property and our land around the world".

This way the same goal is achieved, the brainwashed person is convinced to protect the environmental, but in this more strategic approach you are taking advantage of the "ideas programmed into their head" and using it to send them in the correct direction.

Who has liability for that property damage anyway? Who owns the environment? Corporations or individual humans? Do we all own the Earth or do only the select rich elite few own the vast majority of it?

The truth is that all humans have equal interests in the protection of the Earth's environment because it is our property and our source of life and resources. Frame it in economic terms, because the truth is if we destroy our world we will not be able to make any "profits" in the future anyway.

Corporations are not "real people" with actual genuine altruistic concerns. They do not take care of the resources they are entrusted with because they are not actually people, they are just "entities" that we believe in that exist only in our delusions.

Vote Yes to eliminating Corporate Person-hood Status in a government legislature near you.



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:49 PM
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Well if this doesn't wake up most Americans off their couch then I don't know what will. Sadly I think its going to take the government slaughtering us in the streets to get the people pissed off enough to stomp a mud hole in them and hang them for treason.



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by Sky watcher
 

It will take hunger. When people cannot afford gas to get to work and earn money to get gas and food with (and the cable TV), then there will be grumbling. As long as people are fed and entertained/distracted, there will be no changes.



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


It's becoming ever clearer that the government is not for the people. But, if a class action suit can bring a bunch of citizens together, then those citizens can make a lot of noise (bad publicity) for the offending companies.

Before I do business with any company for the first time I google its name. If a lot of complaints come up, I don't deal with that company.



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by Skerrako
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 





Iknow its tempting to go there, but I strongly suspect that is what they want. Any physical uprising would be an excuse to suspend the Constitution and declare martial law. Which is what they want. They want people in the US (much like has been orchestrated in the Mid East) to be the ones to topple their own protective system of government.

Our government has been infiltrated by treasonous scum, but the solution is not to overturn the government. It is to use the very tools put in place BY the treasonous scum to remove them from office. We are walking a very fine line. But the strategy of using their own weapons designed for us against them is a safer bet than outright revolt. We are not just against a group of corporations and politician in the US, we are at war, economically, with a multinational economic mafia which has been perfecting its technique of using propaganda, election rigging, and the illusion of uprising around the world for years.

We need to do something, but we need to make very sure we are on the side of the law. While we still have law.


Civil disobedience my friend.

Although we did it with Great Britain, I do not think we could win an armed resurrection against our government. Every right would be stripped away, our guns taken and property searched. We would all be labeled terrorists and anarchists.

But through Civil disobedience we can have a new civil rights movement, that encompasses all citizens. The army would dare not fire on a group of people peacefully sitting on one of D.C's main highways. Martin Luther King jr. and Gandhi were right about how to change the world.

On the other hand, there WILL be violence. I just hope it is directed at the right people.
edit on 28-4-2011 by Skerrako because: (no reason given)


You are correct, our army made up of our citizens would not fire on a group, enter Para Military Companies such as Xe (formerly known as Blackwater) employing such wonderkins as Venezuelan & Chilean mercenaries and psychologically discharged US soldiers. There is a reason why they have "training" facilities in almost every state now, they worked out well during Katrina.



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