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Crime Stats - London Vs South Africa

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posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 04:38 AM
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I decided to look up how bad the crime stats are in London as I was wondering how bad South Africa really was.

I picked any place in London as I dont know the area

www.met.police.uk...

I picked Muizenberg in South Africa




posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 04:50 AM
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You have to be careful comparing stats like this because they depend heavily on definitions. For example assault in South Africa might cover someone punching you in the face whereas assault in the UK might cover everything from being shouted at and above.

Without adjusting to ensure that each category is like for like these stats aren’t very informative.

Also aggregate figures aren’t very helpful either, for example 1000 murders is much more than 100 but if the former was in a population of 100,000 and the latter a population of 1000 then the latter clearly has the higher murder rate.

I remember a little while ago a news story went around comparing the UK to places like SA and the US purporting to show how the UK had a much higher crime rate; it was generally dismissed for similar reasons to those above.



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 04:55 AM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 


Agreed, I was mainly comparing rape and robbery which are much higher

I have heard many times that South Africa does not have a high crime rate compared to the rest of the world, however the aggression of the crimes are much higher



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 05:02 AM
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London is full to the brim with third world immigrants, the obvious and predictable result is third world crime levels.



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 05:05 AM
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reply to post by JohhnyBGood
 


South Africa could say the exact same thing, as they been flooded with Zimbabweans and other African immigrants ... Yes they are a 3rd world country already but way ahead of countries like Zimbabwe



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 05:22 AM
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reply to post by JohhnyBGood
 


Immigration is NOTHING to do with crime, criminals are criminals no matter where they come from!

London Is full to the brim with poverty, deprivation and a government that likes to pretend huge sections of our population don't exist and don't deserve opportunities. Likewise if you go to South Africa you'll see crime is centralised in the poorer, neglected areas, criminals tend to resort to crime because of the lack of an alternative. Poverty creates criminals.

Blaming immigrants is a typical, misguided excuse used to justify a lack of action at tackling the true cause of crime. Lack of opportunities, useful education and social deprivation, these are the REAL factors which are a catalyst for the creation of criminals. Crime levels have nothing to do with where a person comes from.

Instead of tackling the real issues, governments whose main concern nowadays is keeping the rich afloat with bailouts instead of helping the people would rather look for an easy way out and ignore the problem which only makes things worse.
edit on 28-4-2011 by lifeissacred because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 05:34 AM
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Originally posted by lifeissacred
reply to post by JohhnyBGood
 


Immigration is NOTHING to do with crime, criminals are criminals no matter where they come from!



you are more likely to get criminals from countries that are in civil war, rife with corruption, have a lack of education, places where crime has been part of everyday life for people.. i could go on all day with this, but you get my point.
they come to the uk, with the same mindset as they had in their home countries, they are not given education, taught the british life and culture and in alot of cases dont even know the language.
these people come and instead of integrating into our culture, they segregate into their own groups, which form gangs.
london for example, in the world people dont see and is not reported on, there are simmering tensions and hatred amongst these groups.. which ultimatly leads to a rise in crime levels..
so sorry to say, you are actually incorrect in your point.. immigration does lead to crime..
edit on 28/4/11 by Misterlondon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 05:53 AM
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reply to post by Misterlondon
 


Some immigrants might turn out to be criminals, what you have to ask yourself is why they turn out that way, especially in Britain. Look at places like Glasgow or Liverpool, much more of a 'dangerous' reputation than somewhere like London and few of the crimes being committed by 'immigrants'. Criminals are criminals no matter where they are from, it's not immigration which causes crime it's a lack of opportunity. Immigrants have it much harder than most nowadays, discriminated against and forced into isolated communities which are often seen as havens for crime by the same people who are pretty much responsible for putting these people in the situation which makes so many people turn to crime in the first place. We no longer live in a society which focuses on cooperation, alienated and neglected peoples tend to view crime as an option, whether they are British or if they came here from abroad.



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 06:22 AM
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reply to post by lifeissacred
 


im not here to argue with people but im afraid you are completely wrong, your points come from an msm perspective, my points will come from a street level perspective..
firstly they do have it easy when they get here, they get accommodation, money and all the help they need (i wouldnt get a council property).. example an ethiopian family, only 8 weeks in britain, living in a 1.5 million pound house and claiming 600 pound a week in benefits. (1 of many examples)
as for the crime.. some of these people come from lawless countries and have experienced horrors already in their lives, they come here and dont care or respect our laws or way of life..
we have gangs of somalis roaming the streets of london, drugs, street robbery, rape and sexual assault quite common amongst this group.
gangs of muslims around the tower hamlet area, demanding people uphold sharia law, with threats and cases of violence to those who dont follow these laws.
eastern europeans, running drug, people smuggling and prostitution rings (with a high level of violence)
Nigerians.. high level of fraud..
north africans.. importing and sellin of hashish..
violence between kurdish, iraqis and turkish in north london area of turnpike lane..
chinese.. fake goods eg.. clothes, dvd's and tobacco
Vietnamese.. growing weed in residential houses.. (major industry currently in the uk)
i could go on all day with this
my point is not all people that come to the uk are criminals but immigration is raising crime levels to an unprecedented level.. you wont hear about this in msm, but there are real issues here at the moment..
also there are exeptions, generally the people of india are hard working, put their children through a high level of education, same as americans, aussies, western europeans etc.. can you see a pattern here?



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 06:37 AM
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reply to post by JohhnyBGood
 


Dont go to london i went october last year ...North London and saw homes damaged ie windows smashed in a few different buildings.It feels like an enclave of arab/african nature.Not nice stay to the beaten track if you go.And you will be fine,far to many undesirables in Londistan now lol.



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 06:39 AM
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Having lived in London and Leeds, I have to say I felt more likely to be a victim of crime in Leeds than I did in London. 3 years in Leeds, violently attacked twice and broken into once. Lived in London for 9 years and no problems. The thing with London is that the majority of the crime is gang related, black on black or Turk on Turk etc, if you are white you are generally ignored. I dont think you can blame it all on immigration as there are gangs in Liverpool Manchester and Leeds that are made up of white British youths who are just as ruthless as their immigrant counterparts. The factor that is common amongst all these groups is poverty.

The areas in London I lived were not representative of the Londonistan accusations, the majority of people in the areas I lived were Afro Caribbean, Turks and Jews. I know there are places that have a large Muslim population but, I still do not recognise the accusations of Londonistan. There is literrally every nation in the world represented in London. No one ethnic group dominates the city.
edit on 28-4-2011 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 06:45 AM
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Originally posted by gavlar1974
reply to post by JohhnyBGood
 


Dont go to london i went october last year ...North London and saw homes damaged ie windows smashed in a few different buildings.It feels like an enclave of arab/african nature.Not nice stay to the beaten track if you go.And you will be fine,far to many undesirables in Londistan now lol.


your correct in what you say.. different groups head to certain ares, where they are forming communities..
eg. southall- indian and pakistan.. golders green-jewish.. brixton and harlesden-carribean and african.. acton-polish..
wembly-somalian.. (there are many more examples)
some of these areas you wouldnt want to walk around at night..



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 07:01 AM
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Originally posted by woodwardjnr
Having lived in London and Leeds, I have to say I felt more likely to be a victim of crime in Leeds than I did in London. 3 years in Leeds, violently attacked twice and broken into once. Lived in London for 9 years and no problems. The thing with London is that the majority of the crime is gang related, black on black or Turk on Turk, if you are white you are generally ignored. I dont think you can blame it all on immigration as there are gangs in Liverpool Manchester and Leeds that are made up of white British youths who are just as ruthless as their immigrant counterparts. The factor that is common amongst all is poverty.


no of course immigration doesnt account for all crime.. but a rise in crime can be clearly attributed to the number of people coming from lawless third world countries.. and you are correct, some of it is gang related but not all.. street robbery, burglary, sexual assaults, drug related crime and violence are all on the rise and do affect the average hard working citizen.
there are british youth that have a high level of violence, that goes without saying.. but i have to say, even this has raised since the influx in immigration over the last 10 years.. whether it is connected remains to be seen, but from my experience (i grew up in one of the worse areas of london) these lads are also raising their game to compete with the new ruthless criminals that have appeared on our shores..
guns and knives have become common place, imo this became big within afro carribean culture and spread. now with eastern europeans who smuggle these weapons in.. these items are almost like a fashion accessory now.
edit on 28/4/11 by Misterlondon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 07:11 AM
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reply to post by Misterlondon
 


My perspective is one of a rational human being, when you actually spend time in some of these communities you seem so afraid of you'll realise most of what you read in the papers and see on TV is manufactured news, designed to keep you afraid of 'foreigners' when really they are no different to anyone else, people are people there's good and bad in every community.

Every one of the points you made about these so called 'immigrant criminals' refers to sensationalist pieces of news in the tabloids, two of which were posted on ATS recently and if I had the time I could probably find most of this stuff has been covered on ATS before, you're massively and unfairly stereotyping huge communities and segments of our population.
Certain ethnic/religious communities do sometimes result in certain types of crime, it's the same in every big city in the world, saying criminals wouldn't exist in these places if these communities weren't there is ludicrous.

On the Ethiopian family placed in an expensive house, it's not their fault is it? The government put them there because it was the only property big enough to house them and their children, what would be your solution? tear a family apart? I'm not happy that they got a million pound property to live in either, but I'm not going to get mad at immigrants because we have a crap social housing policy.

I remember reading about those supposed 'Sharia gangs' on this site a few days ago, sensationalist 'journalism' used to scare people (it was a daily mail story, no surprise there, they had to have something about the immigrants as is the norm with their agenda...). Relying on horror stories and sensationalism to try and justify an unnescessary prejudice you have against people you don't know is not going to change anything for the better. The 'gang' in question in that article were guilty of threatening a woman working in a shop to cover her hair, also putting up anti gay stickers, not very nice people and I hope the 'gang' in question is caught and dealt with but they're hardly some big bad mafia like organisation the headline would have you believe. Groups like that are nowhere near as dangerous as the gangs in liverpool who are constantly shooting at each other and terrorizing their communities or the street gangs found in places like Glasgow who are a menace to everyone regardless of their ethnicity or religion.

Bad people are bad people, no matter what their origins are, to try and blame crime levels on immigrants is silly, the nature of certain crimes might vary depending on the community, but there will always be criminals and crime will always find prominence in the most deprived areas of our towns and cities.

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to drag out these unwinnable arguments or derail this thread any more but it's important that both sides of the story are told instead of these threads becoming one sided tirades against certain people.

edit on 28-4-2011 by lifeissacred because: add disclaimer + spelling



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by lifeissacred
reply to post by Misterlondon
 


My perspective is one of a rational human being, when you actually spend time in some of these communities you seem so afraid of you'll realise most of what you read in the papers and see on TV is manufactured news..


i currently live and have grown up in these communities, i also work within these communities.. i have seen this crime and violence with my own eyes and most of it you do NOT see in the mainstream..
you mention glasgow and liverpool many times.. do you actually have the crime stats to compare these to london or is it just your opinion?
i dont know for sure but it seems obvious that london with a far greater population will have higher crime figures..

anyway that is not the point.. the point is immigration HAS raised crime levels, unless you live in a bubble that should be plain for all to see.. im not saying they are responsible for all crime, but it has helped in the rise in crime.. nothing you say will change that, it is a FACT!
just do a little research and see where the crime is coming from.. look at the high level of immigrants currently in the prison system.. look at the drug, violent crime and sexual assaults figures and the ethnicity of the majority of offenders, look at the driving offences, non taxed, insured or mot'd vehicles on the road, look at low level fraud..
once you have done that ill give you some more things to research..
open your eyes and dont be duped.. this is a very current and real problem throughout the uk.. it is 100% fact..

the examples i used before were done so because they can be confirmed in the news.. the sharia thing is not an isolated case, this is happening right now all across the country..
the ethiopian story is also happening across the country, also these people were down the social security after ony 8 weeks in the country DEMANDING a property of this type..

you may try and gloss over these things as is done in msm as opposed to what you believe msm covers, but this is a REAL problem that affects millions of people daily..



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