America is not a democracy!!!

Maybe its just a pet peeve of mine but I hate it when people state a falsehood even if ts part of "common wisdom"

Please people stop calling America a democracy. America is NOT a Democrcy it s a representative republuc.
There IS a difference.
In a democracy the people vote on which laws are passed themselves. Think of the classical greek city states.
In a Republic the people vote for people to represent them and make the decisions on which laws are passed.
The reason Americas is not a democracy is that the founding fathers recognised that in a democracy there are several large drawbacks.
1) the sheer logistics of runninga country as large as america as a democracy would bring all governmental functions to a halt. Can you imagine trying to collect and count the votes of every american citizen on every single peice of legislation under consideration by both houses of congress?
2) In a democracy it would be easy for a demagogue to sway the people into voting for laws which are just plain wrong. Can you imagine what the outcome of the civil rights struggle would have been had the average citizens been the ones to vote on the laws? The fact is democracy is also known as mob rule and we all know how easy it is to sway a mob with fiery speeches.

We as citizens dont make the decisions or the laws we chose those who do.

[edit on 12-8-2004 by John bull 1]

Why don't you tell george bush that and all the other monkey's in political positions, their the one's who tell us we have a democracy, their only kidding themselves.. actually they know it too but think we're stupid...
anyway you should be giving the speech to bush and friends, most of us on here already know this...

America is a representative democracy....

Democracy

The United States is a democratic republic, which does make it a type of democracy; but not a pure democracy (which is otherwise known as "mob rule").

The Founding Fathers hated the idea of a pure democracy as much as they hated the idea of a dictatorship; as Benjamin Franklin said in 1787, near the beginning of the Contsitutional Convention, "A pure democracy is four wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner." In a pure democracy, anything goes, no matter how aborrent it may be, as long as 51% of the people approve of it. (In other words, there's no minority protection of any kind -- and minorities aren't just races, or religions, they're also subcultures, economic groups, etc. -- in a pure democracy.) Also, every single law would have to be passed by popular vote, which would be inefficient at best, and impossible at worst.

In a pure republic, people from different parts of a country meet to make the laws in a legislature. A republic by no means has to be democratic; history is full of undemocratic republics -- in these cases, the legislature members are appointed, not elected.

The genius in putting the two together into a democratic republic is that you end up with a democracy that can run fairly smoothly (you elect representatives to represent you at the national legislature and vote on every single law that comes up; if you don't like the decisions they make, you can elect someone else to take their place next term) but has minority protection at the same time.

I think the writers of the U.S. Constitution were social science geniuses ahead of their time , and the fact that the U.S. is still a free and prosperous country, depsite all the trials and tribulations that this country has been through, is evidence of that. Of course, "liberty and justice for all" is never as simple as a document and a rule book; it will never be perfect as long as human nature isn't perfect -- but as long as we work towards that perfect goal, however impossible that may be, and progress -- then we know we're doing the right thing.

And no, the United States is not an empire -- an empire is a conquerer by nature, absorbing other countries into itself and using those countries (by controlling their governments) to produce for the mother country alone. You can't equate sphere of influence with empire! The U.S. may be one of a small group of nations who have a global sphere of influence right now, but last time I checked, all U.S. allies (and enemies!) were all sovereign nations. There's also a huge difference between being an ally, and being a puppet state; just ask the nations of Eastern Europe (especially Poland), who were "allies" of the Soviet Union during the Cold War, and are U.S. allies now...

A democratic republic naturally functions best when it has a free market (though it can be regulated). A democratic republic with a restricted market (where the government runs most or all industries and businesses) will choke itself to death with corruption eventually, and a dictatorship with a free market is a contradiction in itself, an impossibility.

I'm not saying by any means that the U.S. is perfect; I'm well aware of the fact that the U.S., like every other country on Earth, has a dark side to its past as well -- the scourge of slavery, open discrimination against blacks and women in the past, etc. -- but, like any good country, the U.S. owns up to its mistakes, fixes them, and moves on. As Winston Churchill once said, "Democracy is the worst form of government known to man... That is, until you consider the alternatives."

God bless the U.S. Constitution!

Thunder, this is one of my personal pet peev's. I find myself explaining it far too often, thought not as well as you did.thank you for showing me there are educated people out there.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
Thunder, this is one of my personal pet peev's. I find myself explaining it far too often, thought not as well as you did.thank you for showing me there are educated people out there.

Thanks! I, too, have explained it far too many times, to far too many people. You'd think this is something that would be taught in U.S. high schools and would be common knowledge... but I digress...

WooooooooHooooooo! That means America can call off all those missions to export democracy to the Middle East! Hallelujah!

*eats so much sarcasm he has go call a plumber*


[edit on 12-8-2004 by kegs]

It doesnt really matter what you call it, Democracy, Republic, Communism, Anarcism... if the system lets people like bush get into power then it obviously doesnt work...

I believe that with the Internet that democracy could work in this country. If every citizen has a unique identifier (ssn), then it could be done.

We'd still need representatives, but for example everyone in Senator A's district can vote, and Senator A's office is responsible for posting upcoming votes, and Senator A's vote has to represent the will of the people.

The interesting thing about this system is that politicians wouldn't have to look after their public image, for example being afraid to vote for military action against Iraq, because their entire job is to present issues to the public and truly represent them. That's what they build their careers on, not spinning and polishing their public image.

Personally I think that'd be a better way to run the republic. Unfortunately the congressmen wouldn't be able to vote themselves fat pay increases anytime they wanted.

[edit on 12-8-2004 by taibunsuu]

Hows this for a logical dilemma....

If America IS a democracy, then you are getting the leader you deserve.

If it ISN'T a democracy, then you have the leader imposed on you, BUT your claim to democracy is a fraud.

Which is worse?

Not just in USA, but in all the world. "they" have learned that they need people votes to be elected, or they will be called by all as tiranic dictators! modern democratics are just a plain masquerade.
even the "fathers" of democracy, have notice hundreds of years ago, how imperfect and sencible to flaws(manipulation) democracy was!!
"they" always throw history in our faces each time it's surves they'r interests, but they easly forget other history lessons!!

I think that the Idea of the founding fathers aim was to avoid a totalitarian government, they new that people will revolt if to much freedom was given or to much freedom was taken so instead of concentrating in our freedoms as per say the were concentrating on making sure a government will not turn totalitarian.

This is just my opinion I think they were brilliant and their minds were beyond their time an hours.

Originally posted by specialasianX
It doesnt really matter what you call it, Democracy, Republic, Communism, Anarchism... if the system lets people like bush get into power then it obviously doesnt work...

It does matter what you call it. All four types of government & society you listed are four totally different things. Also, I wouldn't even call anarchy a type of government & society... it's a lack of government, an absence of society. Listing anarchy as a type of government & society is like calling 'bald' a color or hair!

Also, what type of person do you consider "people like Bush"? Conservatives? Does a system of government only work when liberals run it? You're in Australia, so you're looking at the U.S. from the outside in. The U.S. is split almost evenly these days -- about 50% conservative, about 50% liberal. This is why the 2000 U.S. Presidential election was very close, and why the 2004 U.S. Presidential election will be very close as well.

BTW, there are two major models of democracy in the world today -- the American model (a democratic republic, described above), and the British model (a constitutional monarchy). The British model worked around having a monarch, while the American model eliminated a monarch completely. There's nothing wrong with either model of democracy; about 2/3 of the democratic countries in the world use the British model (usually former British colonies), and about 1/3 of the democratic countries in the world use the American model (usually countries in Latin America).

Australia, being a former British colony, uses the British model of democracy. You elect your representatives to Parliament, but do you get to elect your Prime Minister? How do you feel about the Queen of England being your Head of State? The U.K., after all, is quite literally on the other side of the planet for you guys...

The U.S. is a Democratic-Republic, so yes, you are right, it's not a true Democracy.

-wD

Originally posted by ThunderCloud


And no, the United States is not an empire -- an empire is a conquerer by nature, absorbing other countries into itself and using those countries (by controlling their governments) to produce for the mother country alone. You can't equate sphere of influence with empire!

I have to disagree with this contention. Just because the United States does not formally possess other nations like the British did in the nineteenth century, does not mean that they have an informal empire. The British infact controlled an even larger informal empire over vast areas of the earth before they ever colonized or invaded them. The mere threat of reprisals and military force was enough in most cases to keep these countries in check, making sure that they only traded with Britain or that Britain was the more favored country.

America in that sense is no different, and a sphere of influence would be one thing but i believe that America through her corporations and her military threat do control a vast global empire. Economic Imperialism is no different from formal imperialist annexation because their aims are the same, to extract from thetarget nation goods and services at the lowest cost to the aggressor nation and ensuring maximized profits. Formal annexation would mean a permanent precense and military involvement, much too expensive, and why Britain continues to shed her old colonies around the world, the most recent being Gibraltar. So by using corporations and the threat of military involvement in those countries domestic disputes or refusal to comply, America has a nd is able to stretch her hegemony throughout the world, not unlike any empire of old.

On a side note, i would also contend that America is hardly a representative democracy, in theory of course it is and on paper, and of course there are elections, but if you look closely, many of the men and women who run foroffice come from the same families, almost all from the upper echelons of your society, and many are there for most of their lives in various roles. This is because of the money and because many times they aren't even challenged by a serious rival for their office. Many politicians now in America are either wealthy lawyers who come from families of welathy politician/lawyers, or they are ex CEOs of these global corporations. Do you really feel REPRESENTED? i have to ask.

The united states of America is not a republic at all; not anymore. It was never meant to be a democracy, but a nation with a federal government with limited power and several states wherein lied most of the power, controlled by the people in those states. This is no longer the case, and has not been the case, and has not been the case for about 140 years.

Today, the United States of America (notice the capitalization difference in the two paragraphs. They mean things, to those with knowledge.), the states are governed by the federal government in almost every aspect. This concept is an abomination to the mindset of the Founding Fathers. MWM, you are thinking, if you are really looking for the truth, you are the one that just might dig it up. The fact that you noticed this much tells me you see things are not as they are supposed to be. Dig quietly, though. If you are too noisy in your search, the zombies will harass the heck out of you.

the United States of America is a Democratic-Republic so there

edit: Ahh I see Thundercloud already explained this. Good Job

[edit on 8/21/2004 by s13guy]

Originally posted by ThunderCloud
The United States is a democratic republic, which does make it a type of democracy; but not a pure democracy (which is otherwise known as "mob rule").

God bless the U.S. Constitution!

Nice post!.

Originally posted by jawapunk
The mere threat of reprisals and military force was enough in most cases to keep these countries in check, making sure that they only traded with Britain or that Britain was the more favored country. America in that sense is no different, and a sphere of influence would be one thing but i believe that America through her corporations and her military threat do control a vast global empire.

And how with all of this power and empirenessing blah blah blah do you explain all of the trade imbalances not in our favor with almost every nation that we trade with.
www.globalpolicy.org...

Originally posted by jawapunk
Do you really feel REPRESENTED? i have to ask.

More than I would if I lived in o Canada. a country that allowed aljazeera before fox.

mwm right on point, good job. Thunder excellent explaination.


[edit on 29-8-2004 by keholmes]

[edit on 29-8-2004 by keholmes]