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What would it take to appease some of you Birthers? (last birther thread)

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posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by Skerrako
 


You start a thread that is nothing but politcal trolling at the very least and then get upset when people respond to this?
I cannot believe the mod's have not shut this one down a long time ago. Shame on you mod's.




posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by technical difficulties
You don't magically get respect from having an opinion. However, if your opinion actually makes some sense, then yes, it does deserve respect.


Something doesn't have to make sense to you, to be a fact. This is the whole idea behind the word "ignorance."


Take a look at the information presented in this thread alone:

ACETRADAMUS questions the BC of Obama because the hospital name is 17 years early. Yipes! (Confirmed in the very first few responses with the hospital's own source.)


OOOPS!!






Edit to add... I was not really following this whole "birther" thing.

...until the White House came out with this new long form "birth certificate," only to have it exposed with a number of blatant errors within hours. Now that is embarrassing. It almost makes one think that they published a fake BC on purpose.
edit on 28-4-2011 by bsbray11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by j2000
 




You start a thread that is nothing but politcal trolling at the very least and then get upset when people respond to this?


You, my friend, have clearly not read one word Iv'e written.

I have not uttered one word about dems or reps, as I am neither

I have stated time and again that I believe this is all a false lead to keep the oligarch system hidden and take heat off of the illegal things Obama is doing.

Can you quote my political trolling? go ahead, try to find it. Next time you accuse me, back it up with something will ya?

IN FACT, HERE IS A QUOTE FROM MYSELF, pg 11


by even saying "Obama's failures" you are already headed away from the true issues.

You are inviting partisan trolling, and I refuse to be a part of it.



The mods have been monitoring this thread, and reading everything. I raise very good points, but people such as yourself keep attempting to derail this thread.

Do you believe Obama was born in this country?

That question is relevant.

Not questions about me, not questions about you, not questions about anything else.

What is your stance on the birther issue?



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by bsbray11
 




It almost makes one think that they published a fake BC on purpose.


Now you're starting to get it.

Continue down that road, you'll find some interesting answers



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by Skerrako
 


I notice that you have opted to respond to the posts that aren't actually showing the factual issues with the new "birth certificate."

Is this intentional, or are you still trying to figure out a response to things like this?:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



Originally posted by Skerrako

It almost makes one think that they published a fake BC on purpose.


Now you're starting to get it.

Continue down that road, you'll find some interesting answers


So you admit the new "birth certificate" is a fraud?




posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by xavi1000



Ok, Now this is racist. Did you happen to notice that Obama's mother is white?
Why do you say he is black? Obama is Sun tanned!
He is 50/50 so saying the birther issue exists because he is black is stupid. Because is the same as saying the birther issue exist because he's white.



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by bsbray11
 


Ok, here's a link that is even used on the thread you are referencing: Source

Shows:

The Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital of Honolulu announces three new residents to their resident staff: Dr. Charles M. Van Duyne, of Wilmington, Illinois, graduate of University of Illinois in 1947


As far as the PDF layering:

Originally posted by SaturnFX
From the source several weeks ago:



On behalf of Adobe Systems Incorporated ...



Adobe Illustrator is not, repeat not, and repeat yet once again not a general purpose PDF file editor. Opening any arbitrary PDF file in Adobe Illustrator other than PDF files saved in that version of later of Adobe Illustrator with the editability option (which saves the Illustrator document editing data as private data within the PDF file) may result in content loss or corruption.

___

PDF layers are part of an overall feature known as optional content in PDF and are conceptually very different than Illustrator layers. Since PDF optional content features in general are very much a superset of Illustrator layers (PDFMaker for PowerPoint uses optional content to handle certain slide build features, for example), there would be no easy way for Illustrator to readily pick and choose what optional content features to support and translate. As such, don't expect this to be "rectified" in any way in future Illustrator releases.



(To make things even more interesting, both PDF and Illustrator layers are very different than Photoshop layers which allow for defined interactions between layers such as masking!)

Dov Isaacs


From the adobe forums.
Basically, scanning in PDF = immediate wonkification and pseudo-layers if opened in illustrator if I am grasping what this is saying.

Which means the whole open in illustrator or use illustrator in general at any step of the process = wonkyness abound.

Take it for what you will.

add: Source of that clip
edit on 27-4-2011 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)

Thread

And then we go "Yeah? What about the secret writing hidden on it?" well here:

Originally posted by nataylor
reply to post by boondock-saint
 


It looks like they had the short form birth certificate behind the long form when they made photo copies. It all lines up, so you're just seeing bleed-through.

Click through to view the whole thing if the forum is cutting off the left edge:


All I did was open this image of the long-form certificate in Photoshop, then invert the colors and apply a curve to it to increase the contrast. I then took this image of the short-form certificate, resized, moved, and very slightly rotated it and laid it on top.

It all lines up. the supposed "CIA-61" is "OAHU." You can see other bits line up, like "Island of Birth," "Sex," and the black box at the bottom of the short form that says "ANY ALTERATION INVALIDATE THIS CERTIFICATE."







Thread

Come on, it's ok, just let it go. I like many others feel betrayed too, but this foolishness is only going to help him get re-elected.

Mods, sorry I know it's long, but kind of relevant.

edit on 28-4-2011 by Hijaqd because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by bsbray11
 





I notice that you have opted to respond to the posts that aren't actually showing the factual issues with the new "birth certificate."


I actually don't bother trying to delve into the issue as I think it is just a MSM distraction for real issues. This is the only thread on this I have commented on, only because I am attempting to get those on ATS to see past the distraction propaganda (which is proving to be exceedingly hard). Some people just can't see past things




So you admit the new "birth certificate" is a fraud?


Well I certainly don't admit that, because I don't know.

but if you read my sig have a quote my Carl Jung, and it certainly applies here.

Unlike many birthers, I don't simply close myself off to truth. When you compare the evidence with no bias it is clear that Obama was born here.

I admit the long form released yesterday is fishy as well.

This strange coincidence has has pretty much confirmed my suspicions that this may be some kind of psy-op on the American people.

Another reason leading me to that conclusion is that this is one of the only conspiracies the MSM has picked up on. Why not 9/11 truth? Why not the NWO? because those have truth behind them. Birtherism doesn't

I believe the birther issue is the equivalent of a dog chasing it's tail.

I can see both sides very clearly, from my macro point of view. unfortunately many cannot see past their micro point of view of this situation.

Do you understand?
edit on 28-4-2011 by Skerrako because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by Hijaqd
Ok, here's a link that is even used on the thread you are referencing: Source

Shows:

The Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital of Honolulu announces three new residents to their resident staff: Dr. Charles M. Van Duyne, of Wilmington, Illinois, graduate of University of Illinois in 1947


I'm not sure why you think this is at all relevant.

It says "Dr. Charles M. Van Duyne, of Wilmington, Illinois, graduate of University of Illinois in 1947."

It doesn't say anything about what the name of that hospital was in the same year. The same thread you link to has sources from the hospital stating explicitly that the name of the hospital was changed to what it reads on Obama's "birth certificate," after the date listed on his same "birth certificate"! Did you see that at all? Go look at the thread again.



As far as the PDF layering:

Originally posted by SaturnFX
From the source several weeks ago:



On behalf of Adobe Systems Incorporated ...



Adobe Illustrator is not, repeat not, and repeat yet once again not a general purpose PDF file editor. Opening any arbitrary PDF file in Adobe Illustrator other than PDF files saved in that version of later of Adobe Illustrator with the editability option (which saves the Illustrator document editing data as private data within the PDF file) may result in content loss or corruption.

___

PDF layers are part of an overall feature known as optional content in PDF and are conceptually very different than Illustrator layers. Since PDF optional content features in general are very much a superset of Illustrator layers (PDFMaker for PowerPoint uses optional content to handle certain slide build features, for example), there would be no easy way for Illustrator to readily pick and choose what optional content features to support and translate. As such, don't expect this to be "rectified" in any way in future Illustrator releases.



(To make things even more interesting, both PDF and Illustrator layers are very different than Photoshop layers which allow for defined interactions between layers such as masking!)

Dov Isaacs


You appear to be misconstruing this as well, because it explicitly states that "there would be no easy way for Illustrator to readily pick and choose what optional content features to support and translate." PDF layers are described in the very next paragraph as the very same "optional content features." This literally means that "there would be no easy way for Illustrator to readily pick and choose (PDF layers) to support and translate"... unless the PDF was saved with a software version featuring this option. This does not mean that these features will just "magically" appear in a PDF without having been created.

And when it mentions data loss, that does not mean the creation of a separate feature of PDF layers. Those layers represent additional information that, according to your own source here, do not import properly into Adobe Illustrator unless the files were saved in the same or a later version of the software featuring this option.


Basically, scanning in PDF = immediate wonkification and pseudo-layers if opened in illustrator if I am grasping what this is saying.


You are not, because it says nowhere in there, that opening any PDF in Abode Illustrator will automatically create PDF layers. Again, this represents creating additional data in the file, not corruption or loss, which is completely different. It specifically says that "there would be no easy way for Illustrator to readily pick and choose what optional content features to support and translate," unless content features such as PDF layers were saved in the same or a later version of the software featuring this option (they say "saved in that version of later of Adobe Illustrator" when I assume they mean "saved in that version or later of Adobe Illustrator," otherwise it would make no grammatical sense) . This makes perfect sense with the way software functions on the programming level, and again, does not mean that Adobe Illustrator automatically puts any other imported PDF into layers. If anything these paragraphs are only describing the difficulty Illustrator would have importing PDF layers from incorrect software versions.
edit on 28-4-2011 by bsbray11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 11:52 PM
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Please everyone stop bringing up the Hospital name.

Check HERE

...and also stop playing the RACE CARD

Check HERE
edit on 28-4-2011 by superman2012 because: two clarifying reasons for both sides



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by Skerrako

I notice that you have opted to respond to the posts that aren't actually showing the factual issues with the new "birth certificate."


I actually don't bother trying to delve into the issue as I think it is just a MSM distraction for real issues.


But you posted this thread, and you were just harassing someone for allegedly being unable to counter your arguments that "birthers" are unjustified in their concerns.


This is the only thread on this I have commented on, only because I am attempting to get those on ATS to see past the distraction propaganda (which is proving to be exceedingly hard). Some people just can't see past things


I agree we should see past the propaganda, and the most blatant of which seems to be the propaganda that Obama was born in the US, and trying to justify this idea with demonstrably falsified documents.

The "double conspiracy" thing isn't really flying for me. Why would they want Obama out of office by making it look as if he wasn't born here? If "they" didn't want him in office, he never would have been. Period.



This strange coincidence has has pretty much confirmed my suspicions that this may be some kind of psy-op on the American people.

Another reason leading me to that conclusion is that this is one of the only conspiracies the MSM has picked up on. Why not 9/11 truth? Why not the NWO? because those have truth behind them. Birtherism doesn't


The other things you mention have surfaced on MSM, and are almost always ridiculed. Similarly are "birthers" ridiculed on MSM. The difference is that while 9/11 is not brought up on a daily basis, and the MSM can ignore the concept of the NWO entirely, they can't ignore that president of the US and the fact that many more people do not believe Obama was born here, than the number of people who believe in a NWO or that 9/11 was an inside job. It is directly interfering with Obama's effectiveness as a propaganda tool, and he is obviously a tool for the NWO just like any politician is, if you truly believe there is such corruption among the ranks. All of these lies are related and spawning from the same people, and "Obama was not born in the US" is not an idea the MSM is embracing. They are trying to marginalize these people, though their own polls show they are failing at it.
edit on 29-4-2011 by bsbray11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by superman2012
 


Well I didn't post to contribute any real information. I simply posted to state my opinion.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 02:13 AM
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Originally posted by AwakeinNM
I am in the same profession. I have CS5, use it daily. I do almost all my work in CS5. I opened it and saw a whole bunch of debauchery going on. There's even a file in there of some white specks that are there to perhaps make the document look a little more worn? Not sure what that is but it is useless.

I am not a birther, and would love this issue to be resolved without a reasonable doubt. But doubt I have, and like you, I don't see that document as a satisfactory response to the demand for a long form birth certificate.

By the way, didn't a Senator from Hawaii (?) just say that he was not revealing the long form because he doesn't want to reveal his father's nationality? Wha?? Isn't it right there on the form? Is it different on the form that's not a forgery? Please explain that, dude.

One of my old jobs was also doing graphic design, web-design actually (before I went back to grad school for my masters)...and I used both Photoshop and Illustrator daily at my job...frankly, I'm not seeing this as being anything like "debauchery" as you described. I see it as there being a perfectly rational explanation for what we are seeing. I don't know if you saw this in the big long "birther thread". But this has already been covered. And there many people who have been able to re-create these "layers" with other documents. There's a perfectly reasonable, verifiable explanations for what we are seeing. One of explanations being that text recognition software was used when Hawaii digitized their records back in 2001 when they created a searchable database. Also, what people have referred to as the "box" where the green background doesn't match up, again, the document was originally white and the background added later when the digital copy was made, stamped and signed electronically. You can see right in photoshop that the layers are actually just the stamp, seal, signature from the Hawaiian official that has been added over the original text. None of the actual typed text has been "messed" with or changed.


It is true that the PDF birth certificate released by the WH today is not a single image doc, but is a layered construction. Here’s what I mean by that...The problem is, it’s not too hard to figure out what’s going on. If you scan a doc with Optical Character Recognition (OCR) turned on, Adobe Acrobat is capable of taking a scanned doc and breaking it out into layers automatically. That’s what seems to have happened here. There are still one or two funky anomalies, like the text in box 17a getting split into two separate layers and the date in 20 getting its own, but OCR is an imperfect beast and stuff like that happens. The larger question seems to be settled on how the cert got broken out into layers: Adobe did it.
Source


The PDF is composed of multiple images. That’s correct. Using a photo editor or PDF viewer of your choice, you can extract this image data, view it, hide it, etc. But these layers, as they’re being called, aren’t layers in the traditional photo-editing sense of the word. They are, quite literally, pieces of image data that have been positioned in a PDF container. They appear as text but also contain glyphs, dots, lines, boxes, squiggles, and random garbage. They’re not combined or merged in any way. Quite simply, they look like they were created programmatically, not by a human.

What’s plausible is that somewhere along the way — from the scanning device to the PDF-creation software, both of which can perform OCR (optical character recognition) — these partial/pseudo-text images were created and saved. What’s not plausible is that the government spent all this time manufacturing Obama’s birth certificate only to commit the laughably rookie mistake of exporting the layers from Photoshop, or whatever photo editing software they are meant to have used. It’s likely that whoever scanned the birth certificate in Hawaii forgot to turn off the OCR setting on the scanner. Let’s leave it at that.

UPDATE: I’ve confirmed that scanning an image, converting it to a PDF, optimizing that PDF, and then opening it up in Illustrator, does in fact create layers similar to what is seen in the birth certificate PDF. You can try it yourself at home.
Source
edit on 29-4-2011 by meeneecat because: typo



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by meeneecat
 


Interesting read. What are your viewpoints on the background going straight across even though the page is curved inwards near the spine? I realize that would be possible if it were straight on, but, the length of the background pattern would also shorten up. It doesn't. Could this also be caused by what you described?



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 10:22 AM
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reply to post by Skerrako
 


Racists are everywhere, in every walk of like, in every color, creed & nationality on the face of the earth, but racists are the mouse on the elephant's back. We all know that yet you & the MSM keep pointing at the mouse saying that's why the scale is reading so high. Your & the MSM's continued pulling of the race card is political 'baboonism'. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book. Sorry if you can't see that. maybe i need to bring the argument down to an even lower level.

As for your other personal attacks (who's flinging the poo here, anyway? So much for your supposed highbrow stance...), I can't really claim i'm a birther, so you can stop your failed attempts to insult me with that moniker. I am calling out a lie when I see it, unlike you who is defending it. This is bigger than Obama. This is yet another slippery slope, the erosion of our Constitution little by little. That's why it matters. He has not satisfied the qualifications for the office he holds. If we let this 'small' transgression pass, then the next poser can erode a little more & before we know it we'll have Schwarzenegger in office, admittedly not qualified & an admitted Nazi-lover who dreams of being a dictator & POTUS.

But yet you are correct. This issue is only 1 of many issues, a long list of issues & is far from the top of the list. Obama (& pretty much every POTUS in recent memory) is a criminal. These issues are documentable & provable, but it won't matter. Kucinich read 35 articles of impeachment against Bush & how many against Cheney? How did that go for us? Let me answer that for you. It went nowhere, & they couldn't hide behind racism. Do you think we're going to get anywhere with Obama, especially now that he can continue to hide behind the race card every time he's called on the carpet? Bah!

edit on 2011/4/29 by mal1970 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by mal1970
 


*sigh*.

Once again I didn't say anything about race except that some people on this vendetta may be racially motivated.

Which is true, some are, and some are not.

I'm playing the truth card if anything, and the truth is race has been a factor in the country for hundreds of years, with many on all sides being susceptible to it.

I pointed no fingers, because I am a civil being, one who can talk about the racial issues in our country without name-calling.

Although your gross over-reaction to the subject is telling.

A true dialogue on race would not use inflammatory language, and never outright accuses anyone. If we can have an honest conversation, there is no reason to get so extremely defensive my friend.

He's a parable for you: In 2000 (when I was not yet "awake") I was sure that president Bush stole the election. I was on fire about it and dug deep to try to find an answer, which I never did. When the Patriot act was passed, I finally saw what our government was doing and began to wake up. I then realized if I wasn't so focused on the rabbit hole that was the elections, I may of been able to see 9/11 coming, because after that day I didn't here a peep about the recounting in Florida. From then on I learned:

When the distraction is coming from the MSM or government, that is the prime time to look everywhere and anywhere else for information.

I'm not predicting a 9/11 type of event, but I have come to realize how the system works. If you don't want to be caught off guard I suggest you do the same.

edit on 29-4-2011 by Skerrako because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by Aristophrenia

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
The ONLY way for Obama to truly prove his American citizenship, is to be drowned in a pool of baby tears (of course, for legitimate American babies).

However, if he floats and survives -- he is a witch and would require the normal anti-Witching treatments.

I hope that settles it; as soon as Obama submits to drowning in those tears, we can finally get about the other important things like giving tax subsidies to billionaires and whisking away reporters with questions that have not been submitted in writing.

/sarcasm.



WASHINGTON–In the continuing controversy surrounding the president's U.S. citizenship, a new fringe group informally known as "Afterbirthers" demanded Monday the authentication of Barack Obama's placenta from his time inside his mother's womb. "All we are asking is that the president produce a sample of his fetal membranes and vessels—preferably along with a photo of the crowning and delivery—and this will all be over," said former presidential candidate and Afterbirthers spokesman Alan Keyes, later adding that his organization would be willing to settle for a half-liter of maternal cord plasma. "To this day, the American people have not seen a cervical mucus plug, let alone one that has been signed and notarized by a state-certified Hawaiian health official. If the president was indeed born in the manner in which he claims, then where is his gestation sac?" Keyes said that if Obama did not soon produce at least a bloody bedsheet from his conception, Afterbirthers would push forward with efforts to exhume the president's deceased mother and inspect the corpse's pelvic bone and birth canal


From the Onion
www.theonion.com...


OK, that required me to read "theonion.com" for me NOT to go looking at the article in case there were ACTUALLY and Afterbirther's group.

The problem with this crazy group, is that the lack shame or judgement -- so as long as their leaders ACT like they are saying something important and parade sideshows like Donald Trump, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin and the like -- the clueless 20% in this country will continue on their faith-driven quest to enable their own destruction.


>> Thanks for the submission. Cheers me up. But it's sadly unsettling, because there is NOTHING so stupid that it cannot be supported by some group like the Birthers, Tea Baggers, and other assorted astro-turf born nonsense.

I'll return the favor by giving you the ACTUAL After-Birther's poster;



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by Skerrako
reply to post by mal1970
 


*sigh*.

Once again I didn't say anything about race except that some people on this vendetta may be racially motivated.

Which is true, some are, and some are not.

I'm playing the truth card if anything, and the truth is race has been a factor in the country for hundreds of yeah, with many on all sides being susceptible to it.
...



>> The PROBLEM I've found with trying to ascribe ANYTHING to the truth of the "birther" motivations is;
1) MOST people are never honest about their motivations.
2) The distraction that is the "birther" movement -- succeeds in further distraction by making this a tit-for-tat argument about Race. Bringing us all down into the mud with them.

The Birthers are another think-tank fostered astro-turf movement like the Tea-Baggers and the Anti-Global-Warming groups. They might have honest and devout members -- but they were ALL started by the same Koch family driven groups and Republican operatives. Their goal is the same; make sure that everyone is upset and distracted while we destroy Democracy and the Middle Class.

The Tea Baggers, have ONLY been consistent, in terms of "what will ruin our economy and enable robber barons". They don't want a deficit that might stimulate jobs -- but tax cuts and war expenses are off the table. Teachers waste money, but a platoon of mercenaries that costs more than sending every man of age to college in Afghanistan is not.

When not pushing laws to "ban Sharia law" or "ban gay marriage" -- our media is chock full of opinions from Snooky or Donald Trump -- who isn't even officially running for anything yet, nor does he have a constituency. But, he is "newsworthy" like the minister of a parish in Florida with 50 members who wants to burn a Koran.

Our country is circling the drain, but the Number 1 topic is a birth certificate. Same Circus side-show, different day.




posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by mal1970
 


Kucinich is still a man I support and agree with.

The argument can be made that Obama is pushing against the tide of destruction (however feebly). Yes the Fed is watering down money, and buying it's one Federal Notes (no longer necessary are the offshore banks to route these back-door re-purchases). China knows our currency that pays for their junk is a sham -- but there is no other way to keep the economic world turning, and nobody knows what will happen to the Status Quo if they challenge the international (Goldman Sachs run) banking system.

He invaded Libya and went beyond the UN mandate. Sure, MAYBE something good came out of it. But the "opposition force" to Kaddaffi, looked like a Tea-Bagger rally if you kept the camera tight. A couple thousand people armed and ready to fight? Just as likely the CIA is taking advantage of the legitimate uprisings in the Middle East, to create a bit more chaos and capture Libya's resources. Sure, well-meaning people and Khaddafi is a bastard -- like ALL of our closest allies in the region.

>> But Kucinich is right; we cannot continually make the excuse that "McCain or Bush" would have done worse. Would have gone from some bombings to ground troops. Would have stayed longer -- it's all lowering the bar. Obama is creating a situation that CAN CREATE A WAR. And going after the leader of a sovereign nation is an ACT OF WAR -- let's not pretend this isn't going on.

Obama might be a "good guy" -- and trying his best to be good in a bad situation, and not able to do much, lest he be "taken out like JFK." But if we impeach Obama -- then we RAISE THE BAR. The President should NOT be starting wars, and the UN "mandate" does not dictate how our country decides to go to war -- it is the province of Congress. As also is the printing of money supposed to be done by congress and not a quasi-mob racket like the Federal Reserve System which we PAY money for the privilege of them printing it, and distributing FREE MONEY to private banking organizations.

Does anyone even question WHY we just GIVE $10 to banks for every $1 they get in deposits? What service are they providing to the nation that allows them to just be given money. All those loans have to be paid back to these private banks.

What people don't know, is that most politicians get 0% loans from Banks all the time to start their campaigns. Probably an inexpensive technique to guarantee that nobody brings up the question of why do we have private Banking when the Founding Fathers were dead set against it?

>> Well sorry to get far afield -- but thanks for bringing up Kucinich. If we impeached Obama for A REAL CRIME-- even though Republicans on the other side are as guilty or more, even though "Bush did it" and even though he might be TRYING to make things better -- it will help put the Genie back in the bottle. It will start to get some transparency again in government.

Of course, it will never happen. But we Liberals and Progressives (not saying you are one -- just speaking for myself), need to sacrifice our sacred cows in order to get somewhere. When Republicans are ready to sacrifice their sacred cows like LOWER TAXES ON ROBBER BARONS -- well, then we might all get out of this scam without a total collapse.

>> However, I expect that this country will continue to lose jobs, will have more consolidation of Banks, and then get an even BIGGER BILL in 2012 after all of our "belt tightening" -- it's just in the playbook for Fascism. And there will be rioting in the streets before anything gets better -- not an advocate, merely a prophet.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by bsbray11
 




But you posted this thread, and you were just harassing someone for allegedly being unable to counter your arguments that "birthers" are unjustified in their concerns.


Yes I did post this thread, with a very valid question. Trying to figure out why many look away from the mountain of evidence that points to the President being born here. I argue to the birthers to refute the facts, which they cannot do.



The "double conspiracy" thing isn't really flying for me. Why would they want Obama out of office by making it look as if he wasn't born here? If "they" didn't want him in office, he never would have been. Period.


Once again you are saying things THAT I DID NOT SAY. If you continue to carelessly respond I will have no choice but to not respond to you, because I don't like refuting things I didn't say. Please be more discerning in your responses. Of course they want Obama in office, he couldn't be there any other way. Nothing will ever come of this birther issue, because it is becoming more apparent that this has been planted by TPTB and their cohorts. It really isn't a double conspiracy at all. I'll explain again:

Let's assume for a moment We are 100% sure Obama was born in the U.S. TPTB then start the hoopla over his BC before and during the election, after all paperwork was verified by the supreme court, Hawaiian courts and election committee. (planting the seeds of doubt). Then when they decided to start the Libyan conflict they trod out Donald Trump to spam the airwaves with Birtherism, so heat is taken off illegal wars/Gitmo/economy. Now to keep it going, they just release a questionable long-form, effectively starting everything all over. Now the birthers really think that they are closer to some huge conspiracy, and TPTB jerk you around for another two years or bring it back up after we attack Syria or strip more of our rights. Next maybe they'll release a doctored version of the "original" BC, so everyone will say "Thats a fake too!!!". And the birthers will think that they are very close to something, but in reality they wouldn't be. Obama may never realease his original simply because he does not want to (as is his right) and birthers are left with nothing, and continue on with their lives. So what does it serve as? a distraction. Just like Clinton and Monica and Bush and the recount.

How many times will people fall for this ploy?




The other things you mention have surfaced on MSM, and are almost always ridiculed. Similarly are "birthers" ridiculed on MSM. The difference is that while 9/11 is not brought up on a daily basis, and the MSM can ignore the concept of the NWO entirely, they can't ignore that president of the US and the fact that many more people do not believe Obama was born here, than the number of people who believe in a NWO or that 9/11 was an inside job.


The MSM can ignore whatever it wants, or sites like this wouldn't exists. More people believe Obama was not born here BECAUSE IT IS ON THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA. Do you see the cycle? Yes birthers are ridiculed somewhat, but the door has not been closed on them like many 9/11 truth groups or anti-MIC groups.

I hope you can step back and recognize the true scope of this conspiracy.

You have to think like they do

Let's fight a battle we can win!!! A battle for natural rights endowed by our creator!
edit on 29-4-2011 by Skerrako because: (no reason given)



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