Obama's NEW Birth Certificate proven to be fake hours after release

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by Deebo
Either way I think we can all agree on one thing... SOMETHING is going on..

Yes, the birthers have once again been proven to be wrong,so they start making up more rubbish.

s


Ive read pages and pages of this since it hit ATS.. And both sides bring up facts, each contradicting.. I don't know who is right. Either way the bc is miniscule compared to the charges this tyrant should be brought up on. I don't know where all the hate is comming from regarding "birthers". Obviously it IS a suspicious topic. And still is.


Deebo

reply to post by Bonified Ween


The document was produced in Mac OS X 10.6.7 Quartz PDFContext. Do you have access to a Mac with this software? This is how you will gain an understanding of how that particular program handles documents which are scanned into it. I opened the document with PDFPen Pro and viewed the document information to see what it was made with. It's amazing to me that no one here seems to have done this simple check yet, instead of positing guesses as if they are facts. For the record, I have no knowledge of this program or its capabilities, but using an alternate program to investigate and analyze the document in question without understanding the original program that the document was produced with, makes for an incomplete investigation and analysis. Not too mention this incomplete method also throws doubt on conclusions and theories that were made as a result of whatever facts have been discovered so far.

Second, just because the document has layers is not evidence of forgery. Just because you can take any layer and do with it what you want, as you have said, doesn't mean that that is evidence of forgery, nor tampering, nor alterations of any kind. Just because the opportunity and means to do something - anything at all - exists, does not mean that something - any action at all - was actually done.

Third, what of the microfiche example shown on MSN? (Plenty of links in this thread to that version of the BC.) It squares surely with the PDF document that the White House released. That is, except for a few minor unexplained discrepancies, but I'll get to that later.

There is just too much passion and anger behind this subject for folks, who are already convinced of a scam, to sift through new material in a dispassionate manner. This is the disposition that is required. I have offered no proof of anything, just as the OP has actually offered no proof of the BC being faked. The only thing that the OP has offered is the fact that Obama's long-form BC, in PDF format, has layers that when combined, presents a complete image. That's it. Nothing else. Questions to be sure, but no proof of forgery or fraud. Well, that's if you're not counting proof of the PDF document containing layers. But as we've all seen in this thread, there are plenty of explanations as to why those layers could exist in the document. (See the first paragraph of this post for another possible explanation.)

Another thing that is obvious is that while the microfiche document is the original copy of the original document, it is not the same class of document that was released to Obama and The White House. Why are people finding it difficult to understand this? It's the same for every official document that is ever released, by any agency here in the United States. The microfiche document is the archival document, an official document, to be sure, but nonetheless it is for archival purposes only. The document that The White House released is the official released document. There will be differences between the two types of documents. Especially given the advances in anti-tampering technology that's used for official documents. This shouldn't be hard to understand.

Did anybody stop to consider that maybe the discrepancies between the microfiche copy and the scanned White House's copy of Obama's birth certificate are the differences between old decommissioned security features and the relatively newer commissioned ones? Security features that are designed to prevent the very forgeries and fraud that the OP claims his research proves? It doesn't sound like it.

This thread has been overwhelmed with "This proves this, and that proves that!" comments. Which are, of course, of no benefit to the thread. Folks should take some time to simmer down. While the OP has discovered something intriguing, he hasn't discovered anything incriminating.

If the birthers really want to find something incriminating, they should continue searching for it. Because what's presented in the OP, that ain't it.

jesus christ

there is no distraction

obama himself said we should focus on bigger issues and lay this whole silly thing to rest.

like it or not he's president, lets let this silly debate die already. birthers ARE the distraction

Originally posted by rogerstigers

Originally posted by reassor
reply to post by rogerstigers

 

sorry my bad then.

as for layers in that image thats odd -- why didnt they merge them ? (if fraud is involved?)
maybe its slapy work on purpouse to fuel the debate? - i have no clue

I dunno.. it's sloppy and wierd..

Actually, what is strange is that the seperations are not completely consistant.. for example, his first name "BARACK"... the "Text" layer has "BA ACK" and the R remains on what I would call the "Ghost" layer.

I dunno. maybe it was something done during the clearnup process from the scan -- I am certainly no professional when it comes to electronic document restoration.. Just seems odd.

Good observation, it would be interesting to search in the vaults whose birth certificate was used, surely the person has taken great care to pick one with as much letters similar to B.Obama as possible and in the good order indeed.This must have taken some time.

It's also improbable that this person was born the same day than B.O so i say at least two certificates were used to have this forgery master piece.

Originally posted by Perplexity
Okay since so many of you refuse to gain some knowledge:

Open ANY scanned image with text on a colored background in Adobe Acrobat Pro; e.g., via “File,” “Create PDF,” “From File.”
Then click “Document,” “Optimize Scanned PDF” under default settings.
You will have produced a layered PDF document, the layers of which you can separate with “TouchUp Object Tool” under “Tools,” “Advanced Editing.”
Acrobat is not the only software that processes images in this way. Many document management systems default or are configured to execute comparable and additional optimizations for human legibility and OCR parsing.
Even without Acrobat software or technical expertise, anyone can examine the PDF posted by the White House and perceive artifacts of PDF “optimization” that would not be present in a plain image “copy.”
The area around nearly every letter of text clearly reveals a systematic outlined white erasure of the green background, not by accident but by design, to enhance contrast and, thus, legibility for the black text.
To pretend these artifacts are evidence of forgery is simply ignorant or, worse, deliberately deceptive.

Thank you.

The question arises then, why it was distributed in such a careless way with "wiggle room" for lunatics to rant and rave.

The obvious solution would be to have had the document given to the President Obama (as I understand it, only he can request it) in the format that the State of Hawaii always gives. Then, this document should have been examined by a third-party (paid for by the RNC) to check for fraud.

A "here is my ****, have your best men look at it to make sure it's legit and get back to me" attitude would have silenced 99.9% of anyone who had a problem.

The fact that Trump is taking credit for all of this just adds to the credence that there is a much larger agenda to continue to divide the American population.

Obama was never elected to unite the people, quite the opposite. He was designed as a 1-term president to divide the people. He was chosen to keep us all occupied whilst the *real* powers that be make their power plays.

It's so obvious it's almost hard to accept.

He could have been born to bush babies in outer Mongolia as far as I see it. Does it really matter? At the end of the day he's just a puppet dancing to the whim of bankers. The real issue for me is that those who pull the strings and really run America were most certainly not born there. This is just another "Tis, tis not" argument at the end of the day. It's been stated many times on ATS that the corporations run the country...That's the rub! You could put my cat in the Whitehouse for all the difference it would make. Go ahead, impeach him, replace him with the next sure bet but until you cut the strings you're still just swirling around the drain and the water level in the tub is mighty low!

Originally posted by vjr1113
jesus christ

there is no distraction

obama himself said we should focus on bigger issues and lay this whole silly thing to rest.

like it or not he's president, lets let this silly debate die already. birthers ARE the distraction

Do you not understand? By stating this, he is escalating the issue.

He is intentionally directing the focus *away* from the "so-called issues" he claims he wants to address by doing this. Trump is in on this, he was probably called in to get the ball rolling to keep America distracted.

If birthers are the distraction, Obama just fed them a pretty good dinner to raise hell about (even though I have shown evidence it's a weak argument).

I use a autocad program on a regular basis . If we cant get the file to a printer plotter we use a PDF format and email it or take it down to kinkos or office max .

If you import to PDF you can get layers But if you scan or print to a PDF file it is with out layers . Which is what you want so no one can fool with the blueprint . Also there are security locks on a PDF you can use to prevent messing with the document. We have used PDF formats for contract papers Emailed then signed and scanned and resent . As something like a Birth certificate I am surprised it is layered and not in a locked format of PDF that cant be edited or broken apart with layers .

Originally posted by MystikMushroom

Originally posted by Perplexity
Okay since so many of you refuse to gain some knowledge:

Open ANY scanned image with text on a colored background in Adobe Acrobat Pro; e.g., via “File,” “Create PDF,” “From File.”
Then click “Document,” “Optimize Scanned PDF” under default settings.
You will have produced a layered PDF document, the layers of which you can separate with “TouchUp Object Tool” under “Tools,” “Advanced Editing.”
Acrobat is not the only software that processes images in this way. Many document management systems default or are configured to execute comparable and additional optimizations for human legibility and OCR parsing.
Even without Acrobat software or technical expertise, anyone can examine the PDF posted by the White House and perceive artifacts of PDF “optimization” that would not be present in a plain image “copy.”
The area around nearly every letter of text clearly reveals a systematic outlined white erasure of the green background, not by accident but by design, to enhance contrast and, thus, legibility for the black text.
To pretend these artifacts are evidence of forgery is simply ignorant or, worse, deliberately deceptive.

Thank you.

The question arises then, why it was distributed in such a careless way with "wiggle room" for lunatics to rant and rave.

My best guess is that The White House is not concerned with birthers at all. They are considered a fringe element of the extreme Right. The birthers were not shown even the slightest courtesy. Donald Trump and his would-be mainstream constituency were addressed. That's about it.

Originally posted by MystikMushroom

Originally posted by vjr1113
jesus christ

there is no distraction

obama himself said we should focus on bigger issues and lay this whole silly thing to rest.

like it or not he's president, lets let this silly debate die already. birthers ARE the distraction

Do you not understand? By stating this, he is escalating the issue.

He is intentionally directing the focus *away* from the "so-called issues" he claims he wants to address by doing this. Trump is in on this, he was probably called in to get the ball rolling to keep America distracted.

If birthers are the distraction, Obama just fed them a pretty good dinner to raise hell about (even though I have shown evidence it's a weak argument).

oh my god

fine whatever
everything's a conspiracy
everyone's in on it

you know what maybe im right and you're a cia agent planting disinfo

how's that for a conspiracy?

reply to post by zerohistory


You sir, gained a star from me.

I personally hate microfiche, but I have to deal with it. Paper documentation simply does not last. Archival records for governmental agencies are backed up to (as we call it 'fiche"). Sometimes the reader/printers used can make lousy copies depending on the budget for that office.

The film will last 100's of years compared to digital copies on hard drives or paper. Let's not forget the fact that 'fiche can't be easily tampered with. Most archival units keep "roll film" that isn't accessible to the public under lock and key. This is called the "permanent record".

A microfiche card **could** be "sneaked away" and "altered" with some pretty adept tampering and returned...hence the non-public roll film. This is a scenario so far-fetched I don't even want to entertain it.

When it comes to this type of stuff, you can be sure I *do* know what I am talking about.

Big effin' deal.

I xouldn't care less where he was born.

Why do so many people create such a fuss about this? I know that by law, the President of the US has to be American born but in the grand scheme of things is it really that important?

So many s+f for this, amazing.

reply to post by zerohistory


You do bring up a good point. I wonder if there is a specific % of birther's amongst the right-wing. I would guess it's less than 2%. On this site, it seems to be much larger.

I think Trump pursued this for a couple of reasons:

1. The corps control what is really going on, stirring things up just creates distraction on the MSM

2. He wanted maximum media exposure for himself for his bid for the presidency

3. The people that really pull the strings wanted a rich old white guy to pick on a successful black president to divide the nation even more.

Either way, it's a non-issue. What is an issue is how the documentation was put into a .pdf that people could run with and create more controversy. Can't the WH just release something in some kind of normal public-document standard that any court would recognize? I can't take my deed of trust to a court of law in .pdf format ...

Originally posted by minkmouse
He could have been born to bush babies in outer Mongolia as far as I see it. Does it really matter? At the end of the day he's just a puppet dancing to the whim of bankers. The real issue for me is that those who pull the strings and really run America were most certainly not born there. This is just another "Tis, tis not" argument at the end of the day. It's been stated many times on ATS that the corporations run the country...That's the rub! You could put my cat in the Whitehouse for all the difference it would make. Go ahead, impeach him, replace him with the next sure bet but until you cut the strings you're still just swirling around the drain and the water level in the tub is mighty low!

So far, your comments are 100% right. I found funny how easy people loose focus on the real problem, even here in ATS. The best way to get a rid of the problem is vote for a "pre-screened" different puppet next time.

I feel ok with Obama just because I didn't vote for him. All the karma goes to those who elected him, many of them probably unemployed now or lost their houses. Crisis is not his fault and neither the decisions taken belong to him.

Originally posted by vjr1113

Originally posted by MystikMushroom

Originally posted by vjr1113
jesus christ

there is no distraction

obama himself said we should focus on bigger issues and lay this whole silly thing to rest.

like it or not he's president, lets let this silly debate die already. birthers ARE the distraction

Do you not understand? By stating this, he is escalating the issue.

He is intentionally directing the focus *away* from the "so-called issues" he claims he wants to address by doing this. Trump is in on this, he was probably called in to get the ball rolling to keep America distracted.

If birthers are the distraction, Obama just fed them a pretty good dinner to raise hell about (even though I have shown evidence it's a weak argument).

oh my god

fine whatever
everything's a conspiracy
everyone's in on it

you know what maybe im right and you're a cia agent planting disinfo

how's that for a conspiracy?

I like it! You know, I always wanted to be a spy as a little kid. I actually feel flattered! It would be nice to be on the inside of things for a change. Sadly though, I'm just a dude. A dude that has a BS-meter that reads something is amis.

I am HIGHLY suspicious of this.
before I get into that, i ask this... Why release it now?
You're telling me The Great and Powerful Obama was driven to this by Donald Trump?
I call BS.
It is VERY suspect that the image can be taken apart.
It's also very suspect that, when you look at it, it has obviously been digitally manipulated.
I pulled some pics from it, and the writing...in places... disappears.
There is a combination of actual ink and digital "ink".
Oddly enough the areas that are "digital" are pretty musch everything with information about Obama, his birth, and his family.
Thew few parts without digital manipulation are the Doctors signature and some random "x"'s used to mark parts of the document.
This is NOT conclusive proof of his birth being in Hawaii.
This document needs to be vetted by EXPERTS.
Unfortunately anyone who expresses any interest in doing so or says they don't believe it is going to be called: Crazy, Racist, stupid, desperate.
However, those aren't arguments, they are statements. They do nothing to actually support the truth of the document.
Easy way out of a difficult argument.
The earth doesn't revolve around the sun! You're crazy!
I won't believe this until i see unobjective experts review it.
Too bad the media is so liberal. Maybe we could get answers to our questions.
i811.photobucket.com...
"http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz35/sapike2010/obamabcsuspicious.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket">

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
reply to post by zerohistory

 

I personally hate microfiche, but I have to deal with it. Paper documentation simply does not last.

When it comes to this type of stuff, you can be sure I *do* know what I am talking about.

You just wait till a a powerful CME hits the earth, you will be eating those words, paper documentation has been around much longer and lasted more than all this digital age stuff..... also you have the stone age stuff too. lol

In fact, massive CMEs have affected the Earth in the past before electronics, and it will smacked us around again soon as some scientist claim, I bet destroying all electronic documentation and erasing our past..

Even if his Birth Certificate was written in stone, the layers could be altered.

Wow! I do really like ATS, especially for topics like this one and some of the UFO evidence videos that always have huge amounts of member participation.

Even with this thread it shows how quickly members on both sides of the debate pluck away at every angle from both sides, until something that can be seen and compomised by each side.

I believe that is happening here. I know the President has all the access to high tech eletronics and some of the world's top advisors. Releasing a document like this that would be heavily scrutinized, would be such a high priority that there would be no way it could be detected as a fake, but there is two other options.

Maybe they left things like this in the document to earn credibility. I know it sounds strange, but there will be people out there screaming 'why would they let mistakes like this slip through the cracks, with all the top level employees available to build this document it is impossible for them to make those mistakes'

Also, has anyone considered that maybe they want this to be discovered as fake and they chose not to release it until now for a purpose?

They could have released long ago, but it seems strategically placed, but what for? What would be the ramifications and consequences imposed were this be proven fact? If the consequences for doing something like this could be confirmed, then we might be able to see to what end they are driving by releasing a forged document like this.

Having him removed could cause massive massive problems and this could be exactly what they are looking for or trying to make happen. Maybe a sinister motive, such as what many say happened at WTC disaster. A huge, highly important event like this would be right on par with the impact WTC disaster. Ofcourse a different type of situation, but the same scale social impact as WTC. Again, why would they do this - considering if the document were real.


Also, I can't believe how a thread can deteriorate like this one has by members from both sides of the debate screaming at each other and calling childish names when they can't seem to articulate their thoughts and opinion.s. Sad, really, ATS is such a great place, really hate to see that here. I would expect it from a lesser forum, like GLP or something, but ATS? c'mon

Originally posted by zerohistory


Second, just because the document has layers is not evidence of forgery. Just because you can take any layer and do with it what you want, as you have said, doesn't mean that that is evidence of forgery, nor tampering, nor alterations of any kind. Just because the opportunity and means to do something - anything at all - exists, does not mean that something - any action at all - was actually done.

You've completely missed the point. No one is saying that because there are layers there must be forgery, they are saying that it is a forgery because there are layers. And the difference is this; if a document is scanned, it is ONE layer, in effect just a photo. If a document has layers it means it was CREATED. I think you need to understand that concept a little better. Only created images have layers.

I think people who dont understand how photoshop or illustrator work just need to understand this concept and take it for what it is. Scanned images are only ever ONE layer. Thus multiple layers means that the image is not a scanned image, but a created image, created from multiple layers.