Obama's NEW Birth Certificate proven to be fake hours after release

Originally posted by Bonified Ween

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Bonified Ween

 

Of course you're getting the same results

Scan your long form birth certificate, open it in Illustrator, and you'll get the same or similar results...depending on the quality and resolution of your scanner.

How about you scan your long form birth cert and prove me wrong. Thanks for playing

I take it you don't have Illustrator or any knowledge about Adobe products

Look, the proof has been posted a few pages back with someone opening Obama's birth certificate PDF in Illustrator...and Illustrator assigning random layers to allow people to edit PDFs. That poster also did the same with another document and posted the results. Guess what, it did the same thing

So yeah, you've been proven wrong already

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Bonified Ween

Originally posted by SaturnFX
screw it, I am not bringing forward the adobe response anymore..

folks, go back a bit if this is curious, there is a statement (from weeks ago) about the issue in opening up pdf's in illustrator.

If you wish to know the truth here, look back again
if your looking to form birtherism into a religion, then just keep on keeping on I guess.

I've used illustrator and I've used InkScape, both having the same results of these being in groups of bitmap images. And I am not a birther, I am a truther.

from the Inkscape wiki:

Commercial Proprietary Software. Retails for roughly $500 USD alone but is also available as part of the Adobe Creative Suite. Educational discounts can vary greatly.

So Inkscape is an adobe product, aka, same code

now for fracks sakes, do your bloody research...stop making the reasonables do the googling for you already!

It's not the same product, in fact you still don't know what the # your talking about.

About Inkscape An Open Source vector graphics editor, with capabilities similar to Illustrator, CorelDraw, or Xara X, using the W3C standard Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG) file format. Inkscape supports many advanced SVG features (markers, clones, alpha blending, etc.) and great care is taken in designing a streamlined interface. It is very easy to edit nodes, perform complex path operations, trace bitmaps and much more. We also aim to maintain a thriving user and developer community by using open, community-oriented development.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

if your looking to form birtherism into a religion, then just keep on keeping on I guess.

rofl, good one...Birtherism, Birtherology, ie, the study of birtherism, etc. etc..

(People who question birth certificates)

You know, this could end up being a good thing, it could create jobs and open up entire new fields of scientific study..

Maybe obama will start taxing us birthers to recoup that 5 million spent on witholding it? Brilliant!

reply to post by Sinnthia


OK THKS THATS ALL I WANTED TO KNOW BECAUSE I REMEMBER ON MINE I HAD MY FOOT PRINT ON IT AND FOR MY LITTLE GIRL

Originally posted by MisterSpaghetti
I believe the OP used the term "layers" to put it more into layman's terms than anything else. They are elements (that can be individually moved, sized or otherwise transformed).

OP mentioned clipping masks, are they layers or elements?

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by Bonified Ween

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Bonified Ween

 

Of course you're getting the same results

Scan your long form birth certificate, open it in Illustrator, and you'll get the same or similar results...depending on the quality and resolution of your scanner.

How about you scan your long form birth cert and prove me wrong. Thanks for playing

I take it you don't have Illustrator or any knowledge about Adobe products

Look, the proof has been posted a few pages back with someone opening Obama's birth certificate PDF in Illustrator...and Illustrator assigning random layers to allow people to edit PDFs. That poster also did the same with another document and posted the results. Guess what, it did the same thing

So yeah, you've been proven wrong already

edit on 27-4-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

And you didn't read my response. What he posted was TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. And you can read my response to him after his post. What he is arguing is Apples to Oranges.

Originally posted by Bonified Ween

Originally posted by sixneuproele
I was going to try to load it to AI, but I'm not able to view it on the link you provided.

edit on 27-4-2011 by sixneuproele because: (no reason given)

Yes the machine is busy trying to kill it, it was on Drudge for awhile on a blog that was killed. Then it was a youtube video and then there was the google document, which google has now deleted. Anything that drudge linked to is now dead.

edit on 27-4-2011 by Bonified Ween because: (no reason given)

Drudge links generally get killed because Drudge unknowingly was servicing up malware via their advertisement choices.

Their fault? Not Directly, but the link deletions are warranted.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy

Originally posted by MisterSpaghetti
I believe the OP used the term "layers" to put it more into layman's terms than anything else. They are elements (that can be individually moved, sized or otherwise transformed).

OP mentioned clipping masks, are they layers or elements?

I said layers and I should have said groups containing different layers, meaning whoever edited it, created groups and added the layers to different groups.

I'm a graphic designer with 20 years of experience. I've examined the document in Illustrator, and read most of this thread (I can't keep up with the ever-growing last few pages) and I'd like to add a couple thoughts.

Here's what I think the process is for the creation of these documents

• batch scanning, as others have suggested, of the old hardcopy documents - probably done by hand, because of that page-curl at left

• some type of "black detect" feature at some point in this processing - it seems like it's looking for text (which is why it missed some of the messier type, handwritten stuff, and (important) the slightly skewed letters at left - the software makes these extracted elements bitmapped (there's no anti-aliased edge to them) and fills them in solid color (though there are at least two colors used - the black used on most letters, and the dark green used on a few - maybe the original ink had faded slightly in the case of some characters)

• compositing of the green background - the make the document more secure, once it's printed - maybe also to make the printed document look official (could even be a legal requirement)

So then, why is there a halo effect around the extracted letters/images? After thinking about it - and thinking about why the extracted text is bitmapped in the first place - it's likely that these documents will be faxed, once printed. The hospital gives someone an electronic copy of their birth certificate, created by the above process, knowing that person probably needs to fax it to some other source.

Fax machines try to make each pixel pure black or white, usually decided by a 50% (or some other number) threshold. If you have a darkish background going right up against a letter - especially one that's already hard to read, due to its age - it could obscure it more. So my guess is that the halo is added intentionally, to give a little clearance around the data, when it's being faxed or otherwise copied, to prevent it from being further obscured.

And as at least one person has posted, those aren't layers - it's one layer with multiple groups - and that could have been created by a scanning program. Many scanners come with third party software pre-installed, or on CD/DVD that you can install, to process your document beyond just scanning as a single, flat photo-like image.

I think it's a likely scenario - I'd still say the White House was foolish to release the document as is - or, as some have said, maybe it was done intentionally, for some reason we don't yet understand, to keep the suspicion and debate going. I expect we'll hear more about (at least) the scanning process soon.

Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by FOXTROOPER

 

Because anyone who has taken one moment to look into it knows that no legally issued US birth certificate has a footprint on it. You might as well claim everyone has a brain map on theirs, why doesn't he.

Birtherism is a very simple study. You just actually have to study.

My certificate has my little foot print!

And If that layering effect is from adobe illustrator, then adobe reader also does it, because I can see the layering when viewing it with reader.

If open it on adobe reader, on an older slower computer and do a quick scroll, then you will see the layers stand out.

The computer will draw the green background with the signatures first, then it will fill in the rest of the document text and lines. It renders them as individual pictures layered on top of each other. On a faster computer, it happens too fast to see.

I have seen that affect before when I have opened large files on an older computer and you can see what is behind the pictures for a split second until the top layers are drawn.

That means that the document comes as a multipart image.

reply to post by Jazzyguy


Near as I can tell, the pieces of the total PDF are elements, and not layers. But then, I'm not using Illustrator and Illustrator might assemble the PDF differently in that software. Nor am I using Inkscape. I'm using Serif PagePlus X5, which isn't showing the separate pieces as layers, but as bitmapped elements with transparency.

Again, it doesn't really matter if this is real or fake the the Admin did this to keep this issue out of court. If Donald Trump filed a claim on this issue and the court rejected his suit saying "he doesn't have standing" his lawyers would have the court, and subsequently the judge, for lunch for dismissing his suit on those grounds. Trump's high priced lawyers don't play those kind of games.

I can go through plenty of legit reasons he should be thrown out of office, the government take-overs of the Car Companies. The continuation of the looting of the tax-payers money to the banks, the continuation of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, et cetera.

I GOT ON HERE TO ASK QUESTIONS AND GET ANSWER BECAUSE I LIKE ALOT OF STUFF YALL TALK ABOUT BUT I DIDNT GET ON HERE TO GET ASS IN MY FACE THK U

Originally posted by Darger70
I'm a graphic designer with 20 years of experience. I've examined the document in Illustrator, and read most of this thread (I can't keep up with the ever-growing last few pages) and I'd like to add a couple thoughts.

Here's what I think the process is for the creation of these documents

• batch scanning, as others have suggested, of the old hardcopy documents - probably done by hand, because of that page-curl at left

• some type of "black detect" feature at some point in this processing - it seems like it's looking for text (which is why it missed some of the messier type, handwritten stuff, and (important) the slightly skewed letters at left - the software makes these extracted elements bitmapped (there's no anti-aliased edge to them) and fills them in solid color (though there are at least two colors used - the black used on most letters, and the dark green used on a few - maybe the original ink had faded slightly in the case of some characters)

• compositing of the green background - the make the document more secure, once it's printed - maybe also to make the printed document look official (could even be a legal requirement)

So then, why is there a halo effect around the extracted letters/images? After thinking about it - and thinking about why the extracted text is bitmapped in the first place - it's likely that these documents will be faxed, once printed. The hospital gives someone an electronic copy of their birth certificate, created by the above process, knowing that person probably needs to fax it to some other source.

Fax machines try to make each pixel pure black or white, usually decided by a 50% (or some other number) threshold. If you have a darkish background going right up against a letter - especially one that's already hard to read, due to its age - it could obscure it more. So my guess is that the halo is added intentionally, to give a little clearance around the data, when it's being faxed or otherwise copied, to prevent it from being further obscured.

And as at least one person has posted, those aren't layers - it's one layer with multiple groups - and that could have been created by a scanning program. Many scanners come with third party software pre-installed, or on CD/DVD that you can install, to process your document beyond just scanning as a single, flat photo-like image.

I think it's a likely scenario - I'd still say the White House was foolish to release the document as is - or, as some have said, maybe it was done intentionally, for some reason we don't yet understand, to keep the suspicion and debate going. I expect we'll hear more about (at least) the scanning process soon.

edit on 27-4-2011 by Darger70 because: (no reason given)

Thanks for the info

reply to post by Bonified Ween


And you obviously have no clue about graphic design and Adobe products

So the program knew to separate 90% of the text of the document from the background containing 3 different signatures of the mother / registrar / and doctor ? By god thats amazing! Also, if you notice your two screenshots. The birth cert has "Groups" Clipping Paths with Masks whereas you have "layers of text".

1) Yes, it's amazing programs can do that nowadays (although it's not really a new feature of Illustrator). Welcome to the 21st century

2) Of course he has layers of text given that the reference file he used contains only text. Scanning software, or Illustrator tries to figure out the most logical selections...which is a lot easier in a black and white text only document than one containing confusing backgrounds and varying degrees of letters (colors, resolution, etc)

Look, it's really simple. Download the trial of Illustrator, do it yourself if you don't believe me or the others. But continuing to claim hogwash just makes you look silly because anyone using those Adobe products on a regular basis knows how wrong you are.

Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by FOXTROOPER

 

Because anyone who has taken one moment to look into it knows that no legally issued US birth certificate has a footprint on it. You might as well claim everyone has a brain map on theirs, why doesn't he.

Birtherism is a very simple study. You just actually have to study.

Hmm, my BC has my footprint on it and it was issued in the early '60's..

My brother and sisters also got the same thing, all from the same hospital...

I'm not disagreeing with you, rather I'm thinking maybe different states use different procedures or something..

reply to post by MrXYZ


NO. He is trying to sway opinion. The examples he posted are NOT THE SAME. His file is a plain text file that has been converted to PDF so it shows various 'layers' that are actually text elements. The Birth certificate shows layer masking and images that have been overlayed. They are NOT THE SAME! like the person above said, APPLES and ORANGES. Also, you can remove all of the background and still have the text remain on the screen. WATCH THIS VIDEO THAT I MADE.

Im sorry for all the caps, just trying to get the point across

Removed by me: need to withhold judgment at the moment

Originally posted by MisterSpaghetti
Some have argued and posted pictures of a scanned document broken into various layers, but these layers are being detected as text, not bitmapped graphics.

But there is no editable text in the original PDF. It is entirely consistent with a document scanned from the original. I suppose this thread will go on for weeks and weeks, with no one reading what Adobe has posted, and assorted other posters who actually work with these sorts of programs. I can see now the very last post before the mods lock it.... "Aliens manipulated the DNA of the original paper, then in a super secret Black Panther lab, they genetically grew Obama from a test tube."

Originally posted by Darger70
Fax machines try to make each pixel pure black or white, usually decided by a 50% (or some other number) threshold. If you have a darkish background going right up against a letter - especially one that's already hard to read, due to its age - it could obscure it more. So my guess is that the halo is added intentionally, to give a little clearance around the data, when it's being faxed or otherwise copied, to prevent it from being further obscured.

I think the halo effect you're seeing is because the background (most likely white) was digitally removed so that it could be assembled onto the green background. This almost always causes this ghosting effect. If that's the case, why separate certain parts of the document into various elements? Unless, during their attempt to add transparency so the background could be added required them to do so, I guess.