reply to post by _R4t_
Actually I do know how to defend myself. I label myself a "street fighter." However, I trained for years with guys that were highly skilled in
multiple forms of martial arts. I know what a shot to the throat will do. I also know that a punch to the throat is likely to slide or other wise
impact at less than 100%.
I have been in real world confrontations as a civilian and while working security. I understand the real dynamic of what happens when the shtf.
Martial arts are great, but if you start thinking, "I can't hit them there because it might get me in trouble," you very well could end up broken in
unfixable ways. That isn't to say you should use excessive force. You should never use more than is necessary or legally accepted.
However, in this situation the women was being attacked by multiple persons. She was being kicked in the head and ribs repeatedly. The perps kept
coming back to attack her over and over again, and they were attempting to drag her out of the building. As a person that has studied the laws in my
area (and has sought advice directly from the police officers I work with) I feel very confident in saying that lehal force would be justified.
They were attempting to cause great serious bodily injury. They kept returning to attack despite intervention. Then they attempted to drag her from
the location. At that point the victim would be justified in saying they feared death and reacted with lethal force. In most cases where the victim is
taken from the initial scene of attack they are killed. That is a very simple fact. It is also why people (including cops) teaching self defense tell
you never to go with your attacker.
Your advice shows a complete lack of knowledge regarding the laws surrounding self defense. It also shows that you complete lack of real world
experience with the lethality of hand to hand combat. In my experiences I have seen a person that was killed by a kick to the ribs. It wasn't a fast
death either. It was a slow death from punctured internal organs. It took the ambulance and police ten minutes to get there. By the time they arrived
the victims lungs had filled with blood. They drowned in their own blood. However, the attacker didn't know the person was expiring. So they crushed
the victims orbital socket, nose, and teeth causing severe damage and pain before they passed.
I've known of people to be killed by a single punch when they fell and hit there head. Hand to hand combat is brutal, and permenant damage can happen
in a heart beat. You do what you must to survive. If that means a punch to the kidney then so be it. If it means using mace or a taser, do it. If you
are in fear for your life because two people are beating you and dragging you out of a building to an unknown fate, do not go quietly.
Do not use excessive force, but do not capitulate to fear or you may never live to tell the tale.
Let me clear up something that may not have been clear in my original post. I would not have used a gun to intervene in this incident. The women were
obviously scared off by the presence of the male worker. In that case as an intervening person I would have first attempted to use my presence and
"soft hands" to control the situation.
My originl post was from the view of the woman on the floor. She did have the right to use force up to and including lethal force. I know some people
will never except that, but in the state where I live, and many parts of America, it is the truth.
As for controlling a person from behind with a choke and chicken wing, it works one on one. In a situation with two attackers it leaves you little or
no dfense against the second attacker. In other words, an effective strike is the only answer sometimes.
I do agree with you on two points.
Every one should seek some form of self defense training. If they do not have the time in their schedule to master Akido or Muay Thai they should
attend a "self defense" class at the bare minimum. Knowing hos to respond before the situation gets physical is critical. Knowing how to stop a
physical situation quickly is equally critical.
Posting information about self defense with out knowing the possible legal or physical consequences is a bad idea. You can be jepordizing someone's
life in many ways.
I do not believe the original poster was advocating using a kidney punch in any but the most dire circumstances though. So, that does not apply here
in my opinion.
edit on 27-4-2011 by MikeNice81 because: obvious butchering of language
edit on 27-4-2011 by MikeNice81 because: (no reason