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The coming remodeling of British view on Death

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posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by NowanKenubi
 

i would indeed go for the cure. who wouldn't?
we were informed by my mothers doctor six months into the chemo that the cancer was in regression and she should make progress and recover over time. several weeks later i knew something wasn't right and then we were called back to see the doctor, he had made a mistake and there was nothing they could do. it broke my fathers heart. it is not imo any particular persons fault that this occured. it is a system that is limited by financial constraints, top heavy with management and long hours resulting in fatigue. i am satisfied they did what they could.
regarding your father. i am glad to learn he has a good outcome from his lung cancer. precious time is sometimes wasted dwelling on what could be and i hope you spend yours as wise as i spent mine.


f




posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by aboutface
 

i am in a similar situation at the moment. not long after my mothers death, my brother and i went hiking and during the evening sat on bivi bags, he ask me if i would put him out of his misery if he got to that stage without any chance of survival. the mandatory bottle of beer came out and the next couple of hours were devoted to the ins and outs of the situation. it ended with a promise to do as much as possible to ease the suffering and if all else failed, allow the facilitation of what i personally term transition (for both parties btw). his other half got wind of this sometime later and after threatening to leave him and take the kids away, turned the hostility on me. i actually smelt that one coming. i backed away as my brother became troubled with it. she is still hostile but what can one do?
i suppose the better course of action in hindsight would have been to draw up a contract when of sound mind and witnessed by others to allow for the request to be fulfilled. it would have been better imo to have pulled that card out at a later date instead of attempting to convince others of the agreed joint intention. it will be inevitable that if one is involved in the transition of another from this state to the next, (my brother and i both agree the beautiful equation is energy on many levels) there will be hostility and hatred aimed at the facilitator. there will be no going back to the way things were with family and friends. some will never speak again. all facets must be considered and it would be a good thing for more people to talk and possibly prepare for the inevitable. there should be more options than just witnessing the prolonged agony and suffering that has and is endured till death. some of my friends died in their sleep, fit as a fiddle the day prior. some friends died through the torment from others and some friends died very slowly in agony where no medication could comfort them. i have good memories of all of them. i struggle daily with how others acted when someone close to me died but i find strength in the fact i did my best.
f



posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 11:35 PM
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reply to post by fakedirt
 


There was recently the news that an American state had bought crappy poison to kill those sentenced to death.
If we agree to assisted-suicide, how long until they provide generic, cheaper, poorly effective killing drugs?
We might end up causing more sufferance instead of alleviating it before the end.

When I learned about the use of morphine in terminal cases, I found it sad that it lead for the person to be gone before going. But I understood the reason it was given. It is a form of euthanasia, applied at the last moment, when death becomes inevitable, thus making it acceptable, in a way because it eases the pain.

First they poison the world, making us sick, unhealthy, with birth defects, or with debilitating sicknesses, and now, because they can't stop stealing the people's money, we should agree to their proposition to terminate some individuals lives under the pretext that we have to cut "spending"?

Money put on a human being should be considered an investment, not a spending.

Cures should be released at a low price. I can't believe they can sell pills for thousands of dollars. A fraction of what is invested in the armies would also be enough to cover for everybody.

I would agree for the right to chose to die if nothing was to be effective in anyways in the treatment of symptoms and the alleviation of pain.

Don't forget, about the money concept, it works because we mutually agree of values. At the cost of our own.



posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 11:53 PM
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reply to post by fakedirt
 


Have you heard of The Living Will? Do an online search for one. They're legal where I live. Problem is, people keep putting off filling it out and filing it.



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by NowanKenubi
 


regarding the poison for the injection executions. i believe it was sourced here in the uk and there was dissent in
parliament as well as scant news coverage on the matter. i believe that executions are wrong and do no good in the name of justice.
i feel it would be a better system to engage the lifers in productive work which could enable a good proportion of
monies earned to be paid to the victims family for as long as that individual has the ability. it would enable the victim to allow for say certain bills to be covered or even deposited into a trust fund to assist any family children a chance at an education and possibly a better life. i know it wouldn't be a huge amount but every bit helps.

your point about the morphene. there is a stage i have seen where it becomes ineffective at controlling the pain and is merely poisoning the patient. the risk with using cheaper alternatives should be strutinised thoroughly if it is to be utilised for an end of life option. furthermore i feel the state should keep away from this and bar any buisness models from exploiting the process. the process of death as it stands with the paperwork aspect is big enough as it is.

this planet it seems has turned into a machine without compassion. the so called politicians/business leaders i feel are playing one danerous game indeed. with increasing loss of freedoms on a daily basis and no end in sight, speculators focusing on basic foodstuffs and the like it's no wonder
people are looking for an external solution to this mess knowing that down here on terra firma, the position the elites have
us in allows for no clarity or influence on our part. greed and all it's tentacles must be eliminated if things are to change. alas,
i feel the only solution would be a cosmic intervention as a complete lack of unity and motivation down here only allows
for the situation to remain the same. i see glimmers of light around the world of nations peoples wanting freedoms, however, certain interests
are there in the background to murk the waters. for the governments and individuals who put their self-interests above the
decent citizens of this earth i say a curse on all your houses effective immediately.

it would be fitting that cures should be dispensed freely but this flies in the face of profit margins and shareholders
interests.i would say that what planet earth could do with is a complete reset but to many they may feel it is beyond the scope
of human comprehension. such a transition could be both problematic and catastrophic. again i round it down to intervention as the
only hope for the human race. i am sure if fleets of visitors descended and insisted on a global audit (assuming they were benevolent) everyone would give them their undivided attention. nice dream.
f



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by aboutface
 


regarding the living will. i heard of this several years ago. although i am lacking in the research dept regarding problems with the scheme, i watched a programme about a year ago where a solicitor stated that the instructions could be put under individual review, thus dragging out any potential suffering. there is also the problem of insurance policies and the like negating any monies forthcoming. i suppose cashing out before it is submitted could possibly be a course of action.
regarding my brother, i do not think it would be appropriate for me to broach the subject as the hostility still remains. one last thought, i have witnessed the greed amongst people expecting their 'rightful' share of a dead persons assets and it personally made me sick to my stomach. coffin chasers can be the worst scumbags one
brushes up against.
f



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by The Sword
 


It isn't about Religion. We simply don't trust the Govt. the Media, Big business. In fact we don't trust or believe anybody. We have been used for lab rats, stolen from, lied to and the list goes on. All of us are aware the reason for all the nasty things we have been subjected to is about profit. Open your eyes and look around you do you actually believe any thing that happens is merely by accident. Even it were an accident there is someone out there finding a way to turn a buck. We may be viewed as crazy, paranoid, that doesn't mean someone isn't out to get you. We on the other hand view the other parts of the world as naive, and out of touch with reality,. This is just as true in regards to this particular subject. Follow the Money Trail it shouldn't be hard to find.



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by redrose123
 


Welcome here redrose, and well said!



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by fakedirt
 


When my mother-in-law was nearly dead, we got to her room one night and one nurse was talking to her ear, telling her to let go and die... She told us she did it to help ease the transition for the dying...

I had an uncle stealing my part of the heritage from my grandma, his mom... It got totally trashed the moment he put his hands on it. Grandma was like a Sargent from WW2!!! Even Grandpa feared her!
She could act even after death, it seems!


I have no idea what is the living will. I'll take a look about it.

Yes, I am certain Death will become an industry if it is allowed to be conducted by corporations, etc. And we know businessmen always try to push the envelope a little bit further lobbying for this, lobbying for that...

And to cut prices, they would easily offer to take the bodies and do with it as it pleases them. ( Research, products, etc. ) It would be the Age of Soylent Green alright!
I may seem to push the button, but look how much civil liberties we got in the last hundred years, and what we did with it. Even if we were manipulated, we still had other alternatives, but chose to be the worst we could be by being lazy and letting someone else decide for us... And we ask for it more and more, strangely...



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by NowanKenubi
 

i had a box of solid gold charms left to me, however, whilst i was sorting out the paperwork some 12 miles away some scumbag relatives rummaged through the house and took all the gold and all her rings which she couldn't wear due to the chemo effects. i held my tongue on that one unlike the situation with the onslaught of phone calls in the early hours. a guilty concience i say. i can giggle about it now but i do remain steadfast on principle.
one mustn't give any ground to fools and strife mongers no matter who they are. i would rather boil my head than to give ground to these scumbags and that does include the relatives who, when i requested, refused to look me in the eye. i could go on and on but wish to avoid the worlds smallest violin.
i would say death is already industrialised through the undertaking industry and all the 'financial' funeral insurances and the like. i feel it would be a better situation if individuals could opt out of this if their last wishes were to have an alternative check-out. floating burning pyres, composting in fact whatever floats one boat. it could be argued that the victorians introduced the whole funeral pomp and perpetuated this industry through a 'keeping up with the jones's' mentality.
another aspect that irks me is this procedure where they pump the body full of formaldehyde. like, wtf? who's going to care about keeping ones complection 6 feet under. apart from poisoning that ground and rendering it useless to future agricultural usage as well as taking up precious land i cannot see anything that merits this need. there of will of course be people out there horrified at the prospect of not looking their best when they are 'risen out of their pits for their coming eternal bliss!' but what about those poorer souls who have been cremated i say? will they just be clouds of dust hoping someone will add water? imo the whole system is a farce and people should be buried chemical free. i have heard one can grow excellent tomatoes on a dead bod. it kind of fits into my cosmic recycling considerations.
the hindu system of death seems pretty ok where the bods are either burnt by the ganges or simply tossed in for all critters and the like to feed on. it would of course be a horrific scenario if this was allowed in the rivers and shorelines around the uk. i can picture it now, crying kids at the beach for a day out with an ice cream and a gammy leg uncovered whilst building sandcastles. i suppose one could travel prior to the big lights out and journey to india to join in with the floating-stiffs party.
i decided many years ago i do not want a bs conventional funeral. i would rather avoid this area of staged grief and simpering idiots. the thought of that makes me shudder. my wife knows my wishes and she also understands i say what i mean. the only aspect of state i wish to be involved is the death certificate, after that i simply wish to be recycled on my terms. if this is unacceptable to the society then hopefully i will travel and get it over with in a more compassionate country.
f





posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by fakedirt
 


I want to be buried in a bag made of natural fibers that decompose well. If I can't but really can't have it this way, I might consider giving my remains for forensic studies where they leave the body to rot on the surface, or underneath, as if in a crime scene...

The idea of being filled with chemicals is more horrible to me than the re-absorption by a natural process in the cycle of the Earth. I also hate the idea to have my body burned down like a witch...



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by NowanKenubi
 

well said about the body farm option. my personal two favourites are composting or fish and critter fodder.
it has been quite refreshing conversing with you on the topic of death. i have lost count of the horrific reactions amongst people i know when this subject is broached. it seems the conventional and institutionalised aspects are deep within most peoples minds. time to reach for a pack of beer seems their want as well as the body language showing an unwillingness to continue down this line of conversation. i think i'll be listening to beck's
mutations later on. kind of fitting 'hanging on to an impotent dream, put a nickel in the graveyard machine, i get higher and lower, i get higher and lower, like a tired soldier, with nothing to shoot and nowhere to lose these bottle of blues' or words to that effect.
f



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by fakedirt
 


It's been nice talking with you, too!


It's true that many people are uneasy when talking about death, unless it is to talk of the departed. All other connected subjects become taboo... Mostly if it shakes their belief in the industry, or what they believe it to be...

My dad has decided to give his body to science like 40 years ago, and he signed the papers or something in the last months, for it to happen, when he passes away. He's already proud to know his case will now be presented to ER doctors, in their formation. What led to the discovery of his cancer lung was that he nearly fainted, and the docs found and removed a little bit more than two liters of liquid from around his heart!!! Apparently unheard of, in that magnitude... You can see Death is a topic we have never been scared to address at home.

Heck, Death it is the only certainty of life. And I want to deal with it under my own terms.

Beck's so cool!



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by NowanKenubi
 

a noble gesture from your father. i salute him and i hope sincerely he has a comfortable transition when the time comes. this thread has brought up some buried memories over the past few days and i appreciate your input as it has reminded me of my need to keep things in check with regards to others around me who are ill. i do hope members and lurkers alike reading this thread take some good from it, break the taboo and assist others reluctant to dive into this subject.
f



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 04:06 PM
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People have a right to die, if they choose. It is just the way things should be.

If you have a right to abort your child because of autonomy over your body, then you have a right to not only kill yourself when you feel too ill to continue on, but you should also be allowed to prostitute yourself. Your body is your body.

These people I share my country with are neurotic. They want to use one standard in one instance, and another standard in another instance. No wonder we are on our way to hell in the handbasket.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


I agree one has the right to chose to die, but not if there are cures hold back, or sold at such a high price it becomes inaccessible to almost everyone who needs it.

And in these times of cuts and frauds, I am certain that allowing for the control of Death, and dressing up a list of killable people, isn't far behind, and not a good idea to open its door to.
Of course there will be standard set up as with any other businesses. A golden guillotine for the rich, and another one a little rusty for the poor. ( You're gonna die anyway, so? )



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by NowanKenubi
 


If someone is with holding a cure, and I cannot access it, the right to die is the only choice left in my life that I can control.

With holding cures is not something I condone. But when the bastards DO with hold a cure, I want to have the right to make my own decision as to what I will do going forward.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


And what if a cure is hold back, but you won't need it before the next ten years are over? Or that the holding prevents you from having a normal life, not a constrained one?
edit on 29-4-2011 by NowanKenubi because: (no reason given)



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