I came not to bring Peace, but a Sword

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Actually we are no different then the animals, we're all a part of the whole. The difference is they work exactly how nature intended....we on the other hand do not. We've evolved beyond killing for food yet we still do it.

They kill for necessity, there is a need for it. We do not need to kill for any reason including food, yet we continue to do so. Im not one to talk honestly, i loves me my meat... *shrug*

Virus? Bacteria? Parasites? Vermon?....still all creations of God. Perfect in every way, and completely in tune with nature. Not evil, just nature by design. We are also perfect in creation, but our thoughts and actions are flawed in some cases.

reply to post by Akragon


You eat God's creations and you don't even have to.

I'm the same though, i struggle with my own moral positioning.

"Not to cause intentional harm to any fellow human or animal"

I ain't no vegetarian, although i don't intend to harm them, i'm knowingly supporting the demand for meat, and thus the inevitable hearding and slaughter of animals.

I guess in some cases, i don't have any regard for certain animals, i have a more survival of the fittest type of attitude. For instance, ask your average mother what she'd do to a rat in her house, or people who step on spiders etc.

It seems if God's creations were created "equal" then some are more equal than others.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

George Orwell - Animal Farm.

A question: if a parasite leeched onto your body, would you want it dead if that was the only way to get it out of your body? Or are you that loyal to God's creation that you'd sacrifice yourself?

Also. i'm only highligting that we all struggle with our own moral positions sometimes.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
So before the gallaxies the development of stars and cosmic gases forming stars, and before life had "begun" - What was "GOD" doing? What plain of reality does he exist on, why suddenly decide? Who created this consciousness? And what created that?

I do not know the answer to those questions. I suppose the answer to those questions is part of our journey together.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

That is what we start out as at birth. When we are born we are blank slates here to explore. We are aspects, images of the divine.

So, we're "blank slates" i can understand that (innocence) i.e. Every baby is an atheist, it doesn't have any understanding of God and thus no beliefs. Then what about animals? Some arn't nessasarily "blank slates" - Some mothers leave offspring when they are still in the egg, the bird learns for itself by intuition. (it has to, or it may die)

Fact is, we're not different to animals, and we, like animals were just "eat, sleep, reproduce" - now it's "eat, sleep, reproduce and ponder about the meaning of life" - It's not that we're more special than animals, it's that our brains have evolved differently.

What makes us different than animals? Animals do what their instincts tell them to do. We can choose to do what our instincts tell us to do, or we can choose something else. We have the ability to reason.

Some animals can do this as well. But none can reason so greatly that they can put them self into outer orbit by combined efforts.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

Original Sin is the first time man hurt man.

And God certainly was angry, and did send a flood to kill ALL of human kind (except Noah and the animals)

Makes me think that original sin is a rediculous theory coming from the same ideology that believes geological events are dictated by a supernatural being.

This is just one tribes telling of the tale. All natural disasters were looked at as judgement from God at one time. We know better now, but that is no reason to mock the ancestors for what they knew. One day what we know will be looked at as ridiculous superstition too.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

We are images of the divine and we now possess godly power to annihilate each other with. We must choose to change, or face our destruction.

If we are, animals are too - WOuld you agree, they commit sin all the time by killing each other, and you say life is the image of the Gods? Virus? Bacteria? Parasites? Vermon?

Yes they are and yes they do. They do what they are made to do, just as we do what we are made to do. The difference is we can reason.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
Problem of Evil again. I'm afraid.

I do not see anything as evil or good. Everything just is.

I think of it more as cause and effect. Instinctually, all things move according to cause and effect. With reason, we can see what effect our causes are having, and alter them away from mere instinctual reaction.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
Would you respond to each of my questions, as detailed as possible if you have time.

Thanks brother

I hope that clarifies my position a bit more.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by awake_and_aware


I hear ya bro...

there was a time when i would happily kill bugs, yet these days only recently i can't even seem to kill a fly. Instead of mushing them into a wall i find myself catching and releasing them to the outside if they're in my house. It came as a shock to me actually... i felt like crap the last time i killed a fly, which made no sence to me at all, yet the feeling was still there. It probably just wanted food, or even to get outside, but instead of that i killed it. Sadly enough i can't even kill flies anymore, i jump over ants if im about to step on one, sometimes hurting myself in the process...that might be Karma saying..."ok you're just being silly" but who knows

There are exceptions to this harmlessness though... If someone attacks me they best know how to fight, i don't take crap from any person. And though im trying to change that mind set, i don't believe it will happen any time soon. Christ tells us to turn the other cheek in such situations.... So i know im still learning... im not able to do that quite yet, if someone strikes me, i fight until they submit... then at least i can shake hands and forgive. No hard feelings etc etc...

thats just me though, again...im learning

reply to post by IAMIAM

Some animals can do this as well. But none can reason so greatly that they can put them self into outer orbit by combined efforts.

We are still animals - We evolved from lesser beings, we at one point were like the animals - Eating, sleeping and reproducing. We had to protect ourself from predators too, and still do in some cases.

Why did God wait so long in the evolution of man to introduce a savior? I know you talk about the "Fall of Man" but why wait a mimimum of 100,000 years before introducing a savior?

We know better now, but that is no reason to mock the ancestors for what they knew.

Never did such a thing, i rediculed the theory not the people, like you said, we know better now. Would i ridicule people of the past for thinking the sun revolved around the earth? No. They were only acting on the information they had at the time, and things are not always as they seem.

One day what we know will be looked at as ridiculous superstition too.

Agreed, but notice, in my case, when i can't prove something, i suspend judgement, to save ridicule, and not to disturb the truth process by my ignorance and pride. It's just something that the Age of enlightenment has taught me.

Yes they are and yes they do. They do what they are made to do, just as we do what we are made to do. The difference is we can reason.

No animal was built with a specific purpose as you imply above. We evolve in accordance with our enviroment over time. We've already discussed that human brains have evolved differently from that of other animals.

I do not see anything as evil or good. Everything just is.

Not even rapists and psycopaths? Afterall. You speak as if God predetermined everything i.e.

They do what they are made to do

Well why would he make rapists or psycopaths? There are rapists and psycopaths in the animal community too.

I hope that clarifies my position a bit more

I think i'm clear on your position, but i have many more questions.

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Some animals can do this as well. But none can reason so greatly that they can put them self into outer orbit by combined efforts.

We are still animals - We evolved from lesser beings, we at one point were like the animals - Eating, sleeping and reproducing. We had to protect ourself from predators too, and still do in some cases.

Why did God wait so long in the evolution of man to introduce a savior? I know you talk about the "Fall of Man" but why wait a mimimum of 100,000 years before introducing a savior?

I don't subscribe to the savior ideology. I believe that Christ taught what we needed to do to save our selves. That is how he is the savior. What he taught is not much different than what Buddha, Krishna, and other luminaries taught down through the ages. What Christ taught you do not need a book to find out. You already have it within you. You know the way my friend. You have said yourself you want to see a more loving world. The trick to achieving this is to do it.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

We know better now, but that is no reason to mock the ancestors for what they knew.

Never did such a thing, i rediculed the theory not the people, like you said, we know better now. Would i ridicule people of the past for thinking the sun revolved around the earth? No. They were only acting on the information they had at the time, and things are not always as they seem.

One day what we know will be looked at as ridiculous superstition too.

Agreed, but notice, in my case, when i can't prove something, i suspend judgement, to save ridicule, and not to disturb the truth process by my ignorance and pride. It's just something that the Age of enlightenment has taught me.

Not all things can be proved my friend. How are you feeling right now? Prove it!

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

Yes they are and yes they do. They do what they are made to do, just as we do what we are made to do. The difference is we can reason.

No animal was built with a specific purpose as you imply above. We evolve in accordance with our enviroment over time. We've already discussed that human brains have evolved differently from that of other animals.

Evolution is another debate for another time. I'll leave that one to the more scientific minded among us.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

I do not see anything as evil or good. Everything just is.

Not even rapists and psycopaths? Afterall. You speak as if God predetermined everything i.e.

They do what they are made to do

Well why would he make rapists or psycopaths? There are rapists and psycopaths in the animal community too.

Everything is going according to a divine plan, this does not mean that I know all the details to the divine plan.

But since you ask about rapists and psychopaths, let me ask you this...

Would we have rapists if we taught all of the members of our species to love and respect one another by loving and respecting them? That is a learned behavior and stems from a poisoned mind that has been hated and abused itself. The only way to fix these problems we do not want to see is by loving them, accepting them, forgiving them, and healing them.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
I think i'm clear on your position, but i have many more questions.

Thanks in advance.

Ask away. I cannot answer the God questions. That is something you have to ask yourself, and when you get an answer, be satisfied with it. I never tried to convince you to not be an atheist. My only position is that we should treat each other like children of the divine, whether you believe in one or not is between you and the divine.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM

Ask away. I cannot answer the God questions. That is something you have to ask yourself, and when you get an answer, be satisfied with it. I never tried to convince you to not be an atheist. My only position is that we should treat each other like children of the divine, whether you believe in one or not is between you and the divine.

See i don't mind when you call it a belief......

My only position is that we should treat each other like children of the divine, whether you believe in one or not is between you and the divine.

It won't be between me and the divine if the divine does not exist,if my belief is true. You implied that your belief is true although you cannot prove it. I'm happy to exist in a society with a range of belief, i don't condem that freedom, but claiming truth to an unprovable theory, without evidence, it's not something i appreciate when in search for the truth, especially as you admitted yourself, our beliefs will be laughed at in the future.

Again, IAMIAM, i don't condemn yours or other's beliefs, but don't claim it as truth, or science. It all comes down to the burden of proof resting on the person making the positive assertion. If there is no evidence, who formed the initial theory, what reason do we have to trust them.

Just because no one can prove me wrong, doesn't give me the right to claim my grandpa is Santa Claus, or that i have a diamond in my back garden, or that there is life on mars, or what is beyond the big bang, or why the universe/reality even exists.

Also, i don't claim that God can't be proved, only currently it has not been proven, and the simple refutation of "look around you" is not enough to convince a deep thinker.

Perhaps in time i will become convinced IAMIAM, maybe if new evidence emerges, or i have an "experience" as often described by those with faith. Perhaps not. It's either between me and the divine OR not between me and the divine.

Thanks for your answers.

I'll be sure to lurk if i have any questions that could potentially be interesting to other people.

A&A

I see too much alike from akragon and IAMIAMIAM Im thinking they are the same person...

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

Ask away. I cannot answer the God questions. That is something you have to ask yourself, and when you get an answer, be satisfied with it. I never tried to convince you to not be an atheist. My only position is that we should treat each other like children of the divine, whether you believe in one or not is between you and the divine.

See i don't mind when you call it a belief......

My only position is that we should treat each other like children of the divine, whether you believe in one or not is between you and the divine.

It won't be between me and the divine if the divine does not exist,if my belief is true. You implied that your belief is true although you cannot prove it. I'm happy to exist in a society with a range of belief, i don't condem that freedom, but claiming truth to an unprovable theory, without evidence, it's not something i appreciate when in search for the truth, especially as you admitted yourself, our beliefs will be laughed at in the future.

Again, IAMIAM, i don't condemn yours or other's beliefs, but don't claim it as truth, or science. It all comes down to the burden of proof resting on the person making the positive assertion. If there is no evidence, who formed the initial theory, what reason do we have to trust them.

Just because no one can prove me wrong, doesn't give me the right to claim my grandpa is Santa Claus, or that i have a diamond in my back garden, or that there is life on mars, or what is beyond the big bang, or why the universe/reality even exists.

Also, i don't claim that God can't be proved, only currently it has not been proven, and the simple refutation of "look around you" is not enough to convince a deep thinker.

Perhaps in time i will become convinced IAMIAM, maybe if new evidence emerges, or i have an "experience" as often described by those with faith. Perhaps not. It's either between me and the divine OR not between me and the divine.

Thanks for your answers.

I'll be sure to lurk if i have any questions that could potentially be interesting to other people.

A&A

edit on 27/4/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)

The truth for me my friend is a never ending pursuit. I believe nothing, because I know nothing for absolute certain.

When I say the divine, I keep saying that it is within you. You are the divine in my eye, as is all others. Why? Because in seeing the divine within you it sets me to treat you in the highest manner I can, with love.

What ever you call yourself, your true self that animates your flesh, that is what I call the divine.

I simply extend that same adoration to the whole of creation. God IS love. It is a state of being. It is everything, and nothing at all.

Now you have me talking like a guru, and I am far too young for that.

So lets just say Love one another, and the world will be full of love.



With Love,

Your Brother

P.S. This Brother explains it rather well. This is a well spent slice of time IMO. You may enjoy it.

Link

Originally posted by 5StarOracle
I see too much alike from akragon and IAMIAMIAM Im thinking they are the same person...

You are not the first to reach that conclusion! LOL

I suppose we are kindred spirits. What can I say?

I do not even know what an Akragon is to use it as a screen name though.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by 5StarOracle


If you believe in God of unity, i guess it could become easy to have a hive-like mind. (similar to the Borg on Star Trek) - To me, it's utter destruction of individualism, of one's personality, of one's perception of reality to submit to such unprovable claims, whether true or not - Especially to preach it as truth to children and scare them with eternity.

Probably a little bit of bias opinionated rant on my Atheistic part.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by 5StarOracle

 

If you believe in God of unity, i guess it could become easy to have a hive-like mind. (similar to the Borg on Star Trek) - To me, it's utter destruction of individualism, of one's personality, of one's perception of reality to make such unprovable claims, whether true or not - Especially to children.

Probably a little bit of bias opinionated rant on my Atheistic part.

edit on 27/4/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)

Destruction of individualism? No my friend, it is respect and love for being the individual.

Don't you know there are over 1400 species of ants? Obviously the universe likes variety!



With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


Variety is the spice of life.

Originally posted by 5StarOracle
I see too much alike from akragon and IAMIAMIAM Im thinking they are the same person...

LoL not the first time i've heard that....we're not even from the same country honestly...he lives in Maryland i believe, on the other hand i live in St.Catharines, Ontario...Canadian eh

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by 5StarOracle
I see too much alike from akragon and IAMIAMIAM Im thinking they are the same person...

You are not the first to reach that conclusion! LOL

I suppose we are kindred spirits. What can I say?

I do not even know what an Akragon is to use it as a screen name though.

With Love,

Your Brother

Ahh, some insight into my Avatar name....if you will

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by avatar22
I love it! This is a beautiful interpretation, and goes along very closely with my own thoughts on the subject.
Let me add this one question... food for thought...
What if the second coming is not meant to be a physical manifestation of Christ? What if the meaning is that his true teachings/meanings will return, available to the masses? Those who are not prepared for the truth will be taken off guard ("I will come like a thief in the night") but those who are open to it and know deep within will know and be joyous.

The second coming is as a man, Son of man: hence Luke 18: 8, Nevertheless when the Son of man comes, shall he find faith on the earth? Son of man is in human form, Son of God is in God/Spirit form: understand the designation. There is a lot that is yet to be known regarding the mysteries of the wisdom of God; God will not institute a pattern without a fulfilling purpose: there were two sacrificial lamb offerings at the time the two great commandments know as the Ten Commandments were instituted: Exodus 29: 39; only one has been fulfilled, the one that regards sin: discern Hebrews 4: 8, 6: 18 and 9: 5.

There remains the fulfillment of the second great commandment: for as you were told, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law (the Ten Cs), till all be fulfilled. If you seek carification on this, go to waterofshiloh.com... and read the Book of Life. Peace be with you!!!

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by 5StarOracle
I see too much alike from akragon and IAMIAMIAM Im thinking they are the same person...

You are not the first to reach that conclusion! LOL

I suppose we are kindred spirits. What can I say?

I do not even know what an Akragon is to use it as a screen name though.

With Love,

Your Brother

Ahh, some insight into my Avatar name....if you will

www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 27-4-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Interesting! thanks for sharing that. My son bears your name...

I wanted to name him after Elvis, but my wife wouldn't have it. So I compromised naming him with his middle name as his first, and the name of an equally famous King, Alexander, as his middle.

Incidentally, my birth name is Arthur.

So, different country, different name, different culture, I guess we aren't the same at all my friend.

Kindred spirits, even Brothers is enough.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by 5StarOracle
I see too much alike from akragon and IAMIAMIAM Im thinking they are the same person...

You are not the first to reach that conclusion! LOL

I suppose we are kindred spirits. What can I say?

I do not even know what an Akragon is to use it as a screen name though.

With Love,

Your Brother

Ahh, some insight into my Avatar name....if you will

www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 27-4-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Interesting! thanks for sharing that. My son bears your name...

I wanted to name him after Elvis, but my wife wouldn't have it. So I compromised naming him with his middle name as his first, and the name of an equally famous King, Alexander, as his middle.

Incidentally, my birth name is Arthur.

So, different country, different name, different culture, I guess we aren't the same at all my friend.

Kindred spirits, even Brothers is enough.

With Love,

Your Brother

Hahaha, thats awesome... but theres more to this story...

My mother named me this because of the bible, and because its elvis's middle name...

Gota love lifes coinsidences, though i don't believe in coinsidences, everything has a reason.

Ironic though eh

Originally posted by Olise
The second coming is as a man, Son of man: hence Luke 18: 8, Nevertheless when the Son of man comes, shall he find faith on the earth? Son of man is in human form, Son of God is in God/Spirit form: understand the designation. There is a lot that is yet to be known regarding the mysteries of the wisdom of God; God will not institute a pattern without a fulfilling purpose: there were two sacrificial lamb offerings at the time the two great commandments know as the Ten Commandments were instituted: Exodus 29: 39; only one has been fulfilled, the one that regards sin: discern Hebrews 4: 8, 6: 18 and 9: 5.

There remains the fulfillment of the second great commandment: for as you were told, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law (the Ten Cs), till all be fulfilled. If you seek carification on this, go to waterofshiloh.com... and read the Book of Life. Peace be with you!!!

Interesting contribution my friend. There are more wonders in Heaven and Earth than any one man can fathom. I will give your link a read and contemplate it's point of view.

Thanks for sharing.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Akragon
Hahaha, thats awesome... but theres more to this story...

My mother named me this because of the bible, and because its elvis's middle name...

Gota love lifes coinsidences, though i don't believe in coinsidences, everything has a reason.

Ironic though eh

Your mother has great taste!

Yeah, gotta love the "coincidences" of life!