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The Quran and Brotherly Love is Clear to Me

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posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


I had actually posted a thread about the whole radical thing and suicide bombing thing, but here's a part about it:

PBS interviewed a person who grew up in Saudi Arabia and went to a Wahhabi school. These are snippets from it:

Reporter said: "If you go to school in Saudi Arabia, what do you learn about people who are not followers of Wahhabi, of the prophet?"

Person responded: "The religious curriculum in Saudi Arabia teaches you that people are basically two sides: Salafis, who are the winners, the chosen ones, who will go to heaven, and the rest. The rest are Muslims and Christians and Jews and others.

They are either kafirs, who are deniers of God, or mushrak, putting gods next to God, or enervators, that's the lightest one. The enervators of religion who are they call the Sunni Muslims who ... for instance, celebrate Prophet Mohammed's birthday, and do some stuff that is not accepted by Salafis.

And all of these people are not accepted by Salafi as Muslims. As I said, "claimant to Islam." And all of these people are supposed to be hated, to be persecuted, even killed. And we have several clergy -- not one Salafi clergy -- who have said that against the Shi'a and against the other Muslims. And they have done it in Algeria, in Afghanistan. This is the same ideology. They just have the same opportunity. They did it in Algeria and Afghanistan, and now New York."

Reporter: What do you mean, it reached New York?

Man: "Well, when it was a local problem, the American media did not really care much about it. But until September 11, you saw how this faith of hate, I call it, did to all of us, to New Yorkers and to the rest of the world, honestly. ..."

Reporter: "But the Saudi government has condemned what happened on September 11....

Man: "... Yes, Prince Nayif condemned bin Laden, and other princes... Prince Turki condemned bin Laden. They did not condemn that message. They condemned bin Laden. ... Bin Laden learned this in Saudi Arabia. He didn't learn it in the moon. That message that Bin Laden received, it still is taught in Saudi Arabia. And if bin Laden dies, and this policy or curriculum stays, we will have other bin Ladens. ..."

Reporter: So the official religion of Saudi Arabia says that 95 percent of people who say they're Islamic are just claiming to be Islamic?

Person: Exactly. This is what is reflected in the textbook, and the books that [are] printed by the government. ...

The full interview can be found here: www.pbs.org...

Not everyone in Saudi is a Wahhabi, but the ones with the power either are, or are heavily influenced by them. Most of those in Saudi are Sunni Muslims, which comprise of the vast majority of Islam.

Some Wahhabis are not Muslim due to there terrible deviations and some have not reached that level.
edit on 26-4-2011 by Reprobation because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-4-2011 by Reprobation because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 12:21 AM
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This doesn't get you out of the problem that the God of Isaac is the God of Abraham and Muhammad and Jesus and the Hebrews. Muhammad quotes and copies enough scripture to follow the problem you face here.

Enoch was Idris (Hermes) as mentioned in the Quran. In Jasher 3, Enoch taught man about God. We find this also in writings of Hermes and Enoch 1. Hermes wrote the Corpus Hermeticum. Enoch built the monument to the Lord in Egypt. This is found in Isaiah 19:19. Joseph came next into Egypt and was PtahHotep. The Maxims of PtahHotep are available to read. Then we get Moses, who wrote the Torah. Muhammad revered Moses and the Torah and Enoch (Hermes) Idris.

We have all these texts to read and verify that the Hebrews worship the same God that Muhammad talked about so often as the God of the Torah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. We have the story of the two brothers. Arabs are Ishmael.

I have quoted enough Quran for you to realize that Muhammad loved the Torah.

Tell me where I am incorrect.

You still have not addressed any of this. I quoted the Quran about Jesus being a messenger like Muhammad. The WE in the Quran is clearly the messengers. Yet, you do not address the love of the neighbor idea.

I want to know how to become a believer. Please lay it out for me. I am eager to know.

As for your other post about the CBS story, how does this relate to the OP?


Originally posted by Reprobation
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


Muslims don't believe that the present day bible is intact; rather that it has been changed, and this is evident with the anthropomorphic references found.

edit on 27-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 01:18 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


Okay, we believe that Jesus, Isaac, and Abraham worshipped the same God, Who is not a spatial or ethereal entity and exists without a place and is not in, on, or from anything. Yes, Jesus was a Messenger. And Muslims can treat their non-Muslim neighbors with politeness, but since non-muslims, or, for instance, christians believe that God is a peripatetic man in a place, which in our viewpoint is basically like cursing God. This is because God is sublime of what christians impute to God. This is why I don't "love" you, though I can treat you with many acts of kindness/politeness.

You asked about radical Muslims earlier, which is relevant to the PBS interview. If the Hebrews did have the same belief in God as Prophet Muhammad, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, then it certainly wasn't what christians believe, as I stated earlier.

Prophet Muhammad loved the original Torah, not this tampered book the Jews call the Torah. There's blatant anthropomorphism in it, just like christianity. From them attributing a place to God and also saying that God is a big man.



posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 04:38 AM
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reply to post by Reprobation
 


you see, muslims were spoon fed lies from a man named mohammed.

mohammed said the Bible was faulty. ..but what this man was ' truly ' saying.. was GOD the Almighty was fallible in the eyes and heart of mohammed.
mohammed, believing GOD the Almighty was fallible, then decided to create a ' new ' book. seeing himself as the main star. over and exceeding the glory of the very Son of God Himself.

mohammed then exalted himself and placed himself among the highest ranks of heaven where men would be fooled to worship him...and they are fooled to this day believing the Almighty God is a fallible GOD.



posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 04:46 AM
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doesn't matter what ' people ' say

..each individual have the resposibility to read the words of Christ themselves.
the New Testement isn't very long and even the words of Christ are noted in red ink in the great editions.

muslims reading another book because some guy says the Almighty GOD is fallible is a rather sad excuse.
now what muslims have to deal with because of an unbelieving heart, is praising an envious tyrant who would rather rip the crown off the very head of the Son of God to become exalted and praised, while sending millions upon millions to hellfire.

a very selish and cowardly act.



posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 07:21 AM
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You can't have it both ways. Jesus, the Messiah, brought a message of love your neighbor. You can't hate me and call yourself a lover of God. The Quran is the message of what happens when you don't believe. Love God, Love your neighbor. Jesus was a Hebrew. The Hebrew Bible that Muhammad had can be verified as the one the Hebrews have. Hate and bias is the flaming sword that protects the tree of life. No entry if you have bias and hate in your heart. God gave the Quran to man for the purpose of revealing the hypocritical nature of hate.

Jesus gives you good news. Good news is love.

"(Remember) when the angels said, “O Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him (God), whose name is the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, revered in this world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (to God). He will speak to the people from his cradle and as a man, and he is of the righteous.” She said, “My Lord, how can I have a child when no mortal has touched me?” He said, “So (it will be). God creates what He wills. If He decrees a thing, He says to it only, ‘Be!’ and it is.” (Quran, 3:45-47)"




Originally posted by Reprobation
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


Okay, we believe that Jesus, Isaac, and Abraham worshipped the same God, Who is not a spatial or ethereal entity and exists without a place and is not in, on, or from anything. Yes, Jesus was a Messenger. And Muslims can treat their non-Muslim neighbors with politeness, but since non-muslims, or, for instance, christians believe that God is a peripatetic man in a place, which in our viewpoint is basically like cursing God. This is because God is sublime of what christians impute to God. This is why I don't "love" you, though I can treat you with many acts of kindness/politeness.

You asked about radical Muslims earlier, which is relevant to the PBS interview. If the Hebrews did have the same belief in God as Prophet Muhammad, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, then it certainly wasn't what christians believe, as I stated earlier.

Prophet Muhammad loved the original Torah, not this tampered book the Jews call the Torah. There's blatant anthropomorphism in it, just like christianity. From them attributing a place to God and also saying that God is a big man.





posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 07:44 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


the ' hate ' is never towards the person. the person is a vessel.

no, the hate is aimed directly at the deciever. muslims are following the deception blindly, they'll answer for their cowardice in following the envious muhammed who ' believed the Word of GOD was tainted.

i love all people, whether you're muslim, hitler, death row inmates.. but i hate deception. deception is what will lead millions into hellfire.

the koran clearly states Jesus is not the Christ. not the Son of God. and to look upon Christians as the enemy.
this single lie should have a muslim running like a mad man away from the koran. this alone personifies the entity of evil.

Christ ' is ' the Son of God.
each and every muslim have this decision to make, whether or not they ' choose ' to denounce Christ. and believe mohammed instead.

i don't hate muslims.. but i do hate the entity of the koran.
edit on 27-4-2011 by steven704 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 11:41 AM
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You are so right. I would just say that the Quran is dead on. They agree that Jesus was the messenger with truth. They are right. You are a nonbeliever if you do not follow His words. Love your brother. Love God. The Quaran judges the Muslim on this standard. If they follow their own messengers words, they will live with all neighbors in peace and they find salvation. Hate separates. It's obvious to anyone who believes in the God who created it all in love. Otherwise, God is reduced to hatred himself.

If the Muslim put their weapons down today and embraced Jesus words, peace. If Israel put down their weapons today, no more Israel. Love defines the believer. The one who defends truth and life is the one who loves. The one who destroys life and truth Is the brother who hates. The Bible called this in Genesis about Ishmael.



Originally posted by steven704
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


the ' hate ' is never towards the person. the person is a vessel.

no, the hate is aimed directly at the deciever. muslims are following the deception blindly, they'll answer for their cowardice in following the envious muhammed who ' believed the Word of GOD was tainted.

i love all people, whether you're muslim, hitler, death row inmates.. but i hate deception. deception is what will lead millions into hellfire.

the koran clearly states Jesus is not the Christ. not the Son of God. and to look upon Christians as the enemy.
this single lie should have a muslim running like a mad man away from the koran. this alone personifies the entity of evil.

Christ ' is ' the Son of God.
each and every muslim have this decision to make, whether or not they ' choose ' to denounce Christ. and believe mohammed instead.

i don't hate muslims.. but i do hate the entity of the koran.
edit on 27-4-2011 by steven704 because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by steven704
 


Again, I shall administer the sites motto "Deny Ignorance" of which you are clearly afflicted with.

How could Muhammad produce the Qur'an if he was illiterate?

Not to mention he lived in a village in the middle of the desert, so how could he know about the embryo and other scientific facts?!?!

He challenged those who disbelieve in him to compose a Suurah (Chapter) like any of its 114 Suurahs[1]:

وَإِنْ كُنْتُمْ فِي رَيْبٍ مِمَّا نَزَّلْنَا عَلَى عَبْدِنَا فَأْتُوا بِسُورَةٍ مِنْ مِثْلِهِ

Meaning: “If you are in doubt about what Aļļaah has revealed to the Prophet (صل الله عليه وسلم), then bring a Suurah like any of its Suurahs in eloquence, if you can, but you will not be able.” (Al-Baqarah, 23)

To understand the significance of this challenge, one must keep in mind that eloquence was a central part of Arab culture at the time. The Arabs prided themselves in their excellence as poets and public speakers, and rivalry in eloquence was an integral part of their culture. One-upmanship in poetic brilliance between rivaling tribes and individuals was a daily affair. As in any human endeavor, however, no record performance lasted forever; eventually someone would at least reach an equivalent level. The challenge of the Qur’aan then, was not unfamiliar to the Arabs. The only thing new was their realization that no one could meet it; to the extent that they were left speechless and unable to even make a serious try.

The Qur’aan first challenged these people to come up with anything like it in eloquence, but they failed, then anything like 10 of its suurahs, but again they failed, then like any 1 of its suurahs, some of which are just a few words, and once again they failed. The Prophet’s opponents saw these challenges as their opportunity to make him lose support, and they were the rich, the powerful and the eloquent. They were all of the Arabs facing a tiny minority of Muslims at that time. Despite their enormous number, however, their reputation for being the champions of eloquence, their extreme enmity to Islam, and their absolute refusal to swear allegiance to anything but their tribe out of extreme bigotry, they could not do it. This is very apparent historical fact, because they resorted to meeting the challenge of words with the blades of their swords, and putting their lives at stake. If they could have met the challenge with words, they certainly would have preferred that, and if they had met the challenge, then this would have been a known historical fact, because the motives to spread such news were and are still in abundance among non-Muslims. Accordingly, the lack of anyone ever meeting this challenge could not have been because they did not care about it, or that the news of it did not reach us. It has now been more than 1400 years, and the challenge still stands.

This miracle is further strengthened by the fact that Prophet Muĥammad (صل الله عليه وسلم) was unlettered and never took part in composing any poetry. Moreover, he told his opponents that no one would ever be able to match the eloquence of the Qur’aan, not now and not in the future. Being of great intelligence, he would never have made such a challenge had he not known this by revelation. Had he not had such a revelation it would have been foolish to make such a challenge.

The Qur’aan also contains many statements about things the Prophet (صل الله عليه وسلم) could not have known through ordinary means. An example is the description of what would happen to the breathing of a person if lifted up into the atmosphere:

فَمَنْ يُرِدِ اللَّهُ أَنْ يَهدِيَهُ يَشْرَحْ صَدْرَهُ لِلإِسْلامِ وَمَنْ يُرِدْ أَنْ يُضِلَّهُ يَجْعَلْ صَدْرَهُ ضَيِّقًا حَرَجًا كَأَنَّمَا يَصَّعَّدُ فِي السَّمَاءِ

Meaning: “Whoever Allah has willed to guide, He will open his heart to accept Islaam, and whoever He has willed misguidance for, He will make his chest tight and narrow, as if he is ascending up in the sky.” (Al-Anˆaam, 125)

In addition to the above, consider also that the Prophet r did not read and had not travelled except two short trips, and never went to anything like a school or been present in circles of knowledge and science. He remained like that for the first forty years of his life; in the town of Makkah, a place without scholars or science, or even educational books. Then suddenly, at the age of forty, he brings the Qur’aan, a book that contains an abundance of wisdom and knowledge, and is of great eloquence by anyone’s standard. This is something completely extraordinary, because a book like that does not appear from the hands of a person that is without background in research, reading or studies of any kind. Accordingly, it must have been by revelation and guidance from Aļļaah that he brought it.



posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


Just because you call something God, doesn't mean it is. Jesus taught the correct belief in God - not some blatant anthropomorphic belief. Or some belief that God is in the skies or Heavens or on a throne



posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 04:40 PM
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Can you provide a link to the correct translation? Surly the Muslims preserved a copy since they mention it in the Quran as being one of their holy books. How about the gospel book mentioned? Where is this located so I can reference it?


Originally posted by Reprobation
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


Muslims don't believe that the present day bible is intact; rather that it has been changed, and this is evident with the anthropomorphic references found.



posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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Are you sure about the beliefs of Judaism? If you just didn't know then you are misinformed. If you are informed then it is a lie. Now that you know the truth, are the Hebrew's still non-believers?

LINK
Although many places in scripture and Talmud speak of various parts of G-d's body (the Hand of G-d, G-d's wings, etc.) or speak of G-d in anthropomorphic terms (G-d walking in the garden of Eden, G-d laying tefillin, etc.), Judaism firmly maintains that G-d has no body. Any reference to G-d's body is simply a figure of speech, a means of making G-d's actions more comprehensible to beings living in a material world. Much of Rambam's Guide for the Perplexed is devoted to explaining each of these anthropomorphic references and proving that they should be understood figuratively.


Originally posted by Reprobation
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


I posted this earlier: The bible says that God walked in Heaven and was searching for Adam and Eve but couldn't find them (Genesis 3:8), and that "the Lord awakened as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine" (Psalms 78:65). Not to mention that Christians say that we're all the children of God or, as is said, "the father"..a "father" is by necessity a body..Psalm 18:8-10 attributes "nostrils" to God and says "And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind."




posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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You are trying to shift the belief of a Christian to idol worship. This amounts to a lie. No Hebrew would dare worship an idol. Hebrews do not worship Jesus. You stated clearly that you hated your brother the Hebrew. Jesus said that if you do not love you neighbor, you do not have eternal life. This is quite the paradox since it is not only the Christian that you hate, you also hate your brother Issac (Hebrew people).

Hebrew description of God (LINK)

"G-d Exists

The fact of G-d's existence is accepted almost without question. Proof is not needed, and is rarely offered. The Torah begins by stating "In the beginning, G-d created..." It does not tell who G-d is or how He was created.

In general, Judaism views the existence of G-d as a necessary prerequisite for the existence of the universe. The existence of the universe is sufficient proof of the existence of G-d.

G-d is One

One of the primary expressions of Jewish faith, recited twice daily in prayer, is the Shema, which begins "Hear, Israel: The L-rd is our G-d, The L-rd is one." This simple statement encompasses several different ideas:

There is only one G-d. No other being participated in the work of creation.
G-d is a unity. He is a single, whole, complete indivisible entity. He cannot be divided into parts or described by attributes. Any attempt to ascribe attributes to G-d is merely man's imperfect attempt to understand the infinite.
G-d is the only being to whom we should offer praise. The Shema can also be translated as "The L-rd is our G-d, The L-rd alone," meaning that no other is our G-d, and we should not pray to any other.
G-d is the Creator of Everything

Everything in the universe was created by G-d and only by G-d. Judaism completely rejects the dualistic notion that evil was created by Satan or some other deity. All comes from G-d. As Isaiah said, "I am the L-rd, and there is none else. I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil. I am the L-rd, that does all these things." (Is. 45:6-7).

G-d is Incorporeal

Although many places in scripture and Talmud speak of various parts of G-d's body (the Hand of G-d, G-d's wings, etc.) or speak of G-d in anthropomorphic terms (G-d walking in the garden of Eden, G-d laying tefillin, etc.), Judaism firmly maintains that G-d has no body. Any reference to G-d's body is simply a figure of speech, a means of making G-d's actions more comprehensible to beings living in a material world. Much of Rambam's Guide for the Perplexed is devoted to explaining each of these anthropomorphic references and proving that they should be understood figuratively.

We are forbidden to represent G-d in a physical form. That is considered idolatry. The sin of the Golden Calf incident was not that the people chose another deity, but that they tried to represent G-d in a physical form.

G-d is Neither Male nor Female

This followed directly from the fact that G-d has no physical form. As one rabbi explained it to me, G-d has no body, no genitalia, therefore the very idea that G-d is male or female is patently absurd. We refer to G-d using masculine terms simply for convenience's sake, because Hebrew has no neutral gender; G-d is no more male than a table is.

Although we usually speak of G-d in masculine terms, there are times when we refer to G-d using feminine terms. The Shechinah, the manifestation of G-d's presence that fills the universe, is conceived of in feminine terms, and the word Shechinah is a feminine word.

G-d is Omnipresent

G-d is in all places at all times. He fills the universe and exceeds its scope. He is always near for us to call upon in need, and He sees all that we do. Closely tied in with this idea is the fact that G-d is universal. He is not just the G-d of the Jews; He is the G-d of all nations.

G-d is Omnipotent

G-d can do anything. It is said that the only thing that is beyond His power is the fear of Him; that is, we have free will, and He cannot compel us to do His will. This belief in G-d's omnipotence has been sorely tested during the many persecutions of Jews, but we have always maintained that G-d has a reason for allowing these things, even if we in our limited perception and understanding cannot see the reason.

G-d is Omniscient

G-d knows all things, past, present and future. He knows our thoughts.

G-d is Eternal

G-d transcends time. He has no beginning and no end. He will always be there to fulfill his promises. When Moses asked for G-d's name, He replied, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh." That phrase is generally translated as, "I am that I am," but the word "ehyeh" can be present or future tense, meaning "I am what I will be" or "I will be what I will be." The ambiguity of the phrase is often interpreted as a reference to G-d's eternal nature.

G-d is Both Just and Merciful

I have often heard Christians speak of Judaism as the religion of the strict Law, which no human being is good enough to fulfill (hence the need for the sacrifice of Jesus). This is a gross mischaracterization of Jewish belief. Judaism has always maintained that G-d's justice is tempered by mercy, the two qualities perfectly balanced. Of the two Names of G-d most commonly used in scripture, one refers to his quality of justice and the other to his quality of mercy. The two names were used together in the story of Creation, showing that the world was created with both justice and mercy.

G-d is Holy and Perfect

One of the most common names applied to G-d in the post-Biblical period is "Ha-Kadosh, Barukh Hu," The Holy One, Blessed be He.

Avinu Malkeinu: G-d is our Father and our King

Judaism maintains that we are all G-d's children. A well-known piece of Jewish liturgy repeatedly describes G-d as "Avinu Malkeinu," our Father, our King. The Talmud teaches that there are three participants in the formation of every human being: the mother and father, who provide the physical form, and G-d, who provides the soul, the personality, and the intelligence. It is said that one of G-d's greatest gifts to humanity is the knowledge that we are His children and created in his image.




Originally posted by Reprobation
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


_____
If you were reasonable after reading the above, you would question the ugly belief of christianity in God.

Christians pray to some idol they made up in there mind.



posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 05:00 PM
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You are cutting and pasting from this site. Please link or use your own words.


Originally posted by Reprobation
reply to post by steven704
 


Again, I shall administer the sites motto "Deny Ignorance" of which you are clearly afflicted with.

How could Muhammad produce the Qur'an if he was illiterate?

Not to mention he lived in a village in the middle of the desert, so how could he know about the embryo and other scientific facts?!?!

He challenged those who disbelieve in him to compose a Suurah (Chapter) like any of its 114 Suurahs[1]:

وَإِنْ كُنْتُمْ فِي رَيْبٍ مِمَّا نَزَّلْنَا عَلَى عَبْدِنَا فَأْتُوا بِسُورَةٍ مِنْ مِثْلِهِ

Meaning: “If you are in doubt about what Aļļaah has revealed to the Prophet (صل الله عليه وسلم), then bring a Suurah like any of its Suurahs in eloquence, if you can, but you will not be able.” (Al-Baqarah, 23)

To understand the significance of this challenge, one must keep in mind that eloquence was a central part of Arab culture at the time. The Arabs prided themselves in their excellence as poets and public speakers, and rivalry in eloquence was an integral part of their culture. One-upmanship in poetic brilliance between rivaling tribes and individuals was a daily affair. As in any human endeavor, however, no record performance lasted forever; eventually someone would at least reach an equivalent level. The challenge of the Qur’aan then, was not unfamiliar to the Arabs. The only thing new was their realization that no one could meet it; to the extent that they were left speechless and unable to even make a serious try.

The Qur’aan first challenged these people to come up with anything like it in eloquence, but they failed, then anything like 10 of its suurahs, but again they failed, then like any 1 of its suurahs, some of which are just a few words, and once again they failed. The Prophet’s opponents saw these challenges as their opportunity to make him lose support, and they were the rich, the powerful and the eloquent. They were all of the Arabs facing a tiny minority of Muslims at that time. Despite their enormous number, however, their reputation for being the champions of eloquence, their extreme enmity to Islam, and their absolute refusal to swear allegiance to anything but their tribe out of extreme bigotry, they could not do it. This is very apparent historical fact, because they resorted to meeting the challenge of words with the blades of their swords, and putting their lives at stake. If they could have met the challenge with words, they certainly would have preferred that, and if they had met the challenge, then this would have been a known historical fact, because the motives to spread such news were and are still in abundance among non-Muslims. Accordingly, the lack of anyone ever meeting this challenge could not have been because they did not care about it, or that the news of it did not reach us. It has now been more than 1400 years, and the challenge still stands.

This miracle is further strengthened by the fact that Prophet Muĥammad (صل الله عليه وسلم) was unlettered and never took part in composing any poetry. Moreover, he told his opponents that no one would ever be able to match the eloquence of the Qur’aan, not now and not in the future. Being of great intelligence, he would never have made such a challenge had he not known this by revelation. Had he not had such a revelation it would have been foolish to make such a challenge.

The Qur’aan also contains many statements about things the Prophet (صل الله عليه وسلم) could not have known through ordinary means. An example is the description of what would happen to the breathing of a person if lifted up into the atmosphere:

فَمَنْ يُرِدِ اللَّهُ أَنْ يَهدِيَهُ يَشْرَحْ صَدْرَهُ لِلإِسْلامِ وَمَنْ يُرِدْ أَنْ يُضِلَّهُ يَجْعَلْ صَدْرَهُ ضَيِّقًا حَرَجًا كَأَنَّمَا يَصَّعَّدُ فِي السَّمَاءِ

Meaning: “Whoever Allah has willed to guide, He will open his heart to accept Islaam, and whoever He has willed misguidance for, He will make his chest tight and narrow, as if he is ascending up in the sky.” (Al-Anˆaam, 125)

In addition to the above, consider also that the Prophet r did not read and had not travelled except two short trips, and never went to anything like a school or been present in circles of knowledge and science. He remained like that for the first forty years of his life; in the town of Makkah, a place without scholars or science, or even educational books. Then suddenly, at the age of forty, he brings the Qur’aan, a book that contains an abundance of wisdom and knowledge, and is of great eloquence by anyone’s standard. This is something completely extraordinary, because a book like that does not appear from the hands of a person that is without background in research, reading or studies of any kind. Accordingly, it must have been by revelation and guidance from Aļļaah that he brought it.





posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 



No Hebrew would dare worship an idol...


Don't they bow down to the star of david or even that candle thingy...?

Christians tend to bow down to a cross of some sort, that pretty much equals idol worship... Though how many people in this world bow to their possessions, like TV...




posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 05:54 PM
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Yes. And the Gospel also warned that if anyone comes preaching another gospel, let him be accursed. For many shall come in my name.



Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!


It is my belief that God knew exactly what he was doing when the Angel was given permission to give him the Quran. Even Satan, in Job, could not tempt Job without God's permission. It is my view that God worded it in such a way that it is actually what it says--a judgment of non-believers. The choice is left up to them. The basic theme is to love God. Nothing wrong with that. The other basic theme is that Jesus was their messenger. Again, correct. The final part then is the trap that is set as a paradox. Love your brother and God (words of Jesus) and receive salvation. Hate your neighbor (brother) and the love of God is not in you. This is completely lost on those who hate their neighbor.

Judgment is written clearly in the pages of the Quran for the Muslim, Jew or Christian who does not believe in the most basic message of Jesus. Love God. Love your neighbor. In other words, do no harm as a reflection of God's bestowal of love to you. This is also the basic message of the Torah. No corruption at all. God is a God of love for his creation. Everything He does is for our ultimate good. Those who choose hate are choosing pride. The original sin in the garden. Hate is pure evil. No way around it.



Originally posted by steven704
reply to post by Reprobation
 


you see, muslims were spoon fed lies from a man named mohammed.

mohammed said the Bible was faulty. ..but what this man was ' truly ' saying.. was GOD the Almighty was fallible in the eyes and heart of mohammed.
mohammed, believing GOD the Almighty was fallible, then decided to create a ' new ' book. seeing himself as the main star. over and exceeding the glory of the very Son of God Himself.

mohammed then exalted himself and placed himself among the highest ranks of heaven where men would be fooled to worship him...and they are fooled to this day believing the Almighty God is a fallible GOD.




posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 06:13 PM
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Not at all. The obeisance they display to the symbols of their faith are expressions of deference to the one true God. Deference is humble submission. Obeisance is respect form a standpoint of humility.

The star is a symbol of the newly formed country of Israel.


Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 



No Hebrew would dare worship an idol...


Don't they bow down to the star of david or even that candle thingy...?

Christians tend to bow down to a cross of some sort, that pretty much equals idol worship... Though how many people in this world bow to their possessions, like TV...


edit on 27-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 06:45 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


respect or not, doesn't one of the commandments say you will worship none but me(God)? So you're saying that they're not actually worshiping the cross or the star, just respecting God though that graven image...

Though it says no graven images either...




posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


You said: "Although many places in scripture and Talmud speak of various parts of G-d's body (the Hand of G-d, G-d's wings, etc.) or speak of G-d in anthropomorphic terms (G-d walking in the garden of Eden, G-d laying tefillin, etc.), Judaism firmly maintains that G-d has no body. Any reference to G-d's body is simply a figure of speech, a means of making G-d's actions more comprehensible to beings living in a material world. Much of Rambam's Guide for the Perplexed is devoted to explaining each of these anthropomorphic references and proving that they should be understood figuratively."

How can "walking in the garden" be figuratively interpreted?!?! Or an alleged God's wings?!?! Look up the words in Merriam-Webster. Can't escape it.



posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


Love is an emotion of need, a need to please the beloved, a need to be accepted, and a being with needs is not the greatest conceivable being, but a being flawed by needs. Surely having no needs is greater than having needs.

Muslims believe that God exists without a place, is not a body, does not have a shape, and is not in light or darkness.

Christians believe that God is a father. A father is by NECESSITY a body. A body needs space to exist. God doesn't need anything including space to exist, and, hence, isn't a body. This is without tackling the anthropomorphic verses.

Not to mention that some christians say that God transformed and was in the body of Jesus. God is Perfect and above changing. Transformation/change is either from an inferior state to superior or vice versa. Both don't apply to God because God is Perfect. It's contradictory to believe that God changes while holding the conviction that God is Perfect.



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