Hawaiian Senator said Obama not releasing long-form BC to hide identity or citizenship of his father

Originally posted by cjdny
The copy of the COLB from Fight The Smears is missing two things. No raised seal and no signature.

Oh dear, you never did any research, did you!
www.factcheck.org...

Shows both signature and seal.... so another birther lie bites the dust!

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by skull_bones
He wouldnt be able to use what he provided to get a SS card

Yes he would actually
"you must provide your birth certificate"
www.ssa.gov...

as for a raised seal, Obama's birth certificate he provided on the web has one!

I not sure what point your trying to make.

But, anytime they refer to a "Birth Certificate" they are referring to a "long form" raised seal birth certificate, If they wanted or accepted a "Certificate of Live Birth" they would state that clearly. The words, "Birth Certificate" and " Certificate of Live Birth" are not interchangable and are referring to 2 completely seperate documents,

Im not saying there is no possible way to get a SS card without it, but if you are going to use a "birth certificate" as one of your documents of proof of who you are, then it must be the "long form" raised seal version, otherwise its meaningless.

reply to post by MikeboydUS

You are quoting the change that I stated happened. The previous version is archived. I am not in front of the computer I have it saved on but I will try to get to it today along with the link to it.

Originally posted by cjdny
And you just admitted to there being a citizenship issue

You are having comprehension problems again...

So if he is not a native HI what by your definition is he

An American citizen - not a Hawaiian native
en.wikipedia.org...

"Native Hawaiians (in Hawaiian, kānaka ʻōiwi, kānaka maoli or Hawaiʻi maoli) refers to the indigenous Polynesian people of the Hawaiian Islands"

reply to post by dereks

You need to come back with something other than the Annenberg Foundation. It's a biased source.

Originally posted by skull_bones
But, anytime they refer to a "Birth Certificate" they are referring to a "long form" raised seal birth certificate,

Wrong again, that is just YOUR claim

The words, "Birth Certificate" and " Certificate of Live Birth" are not interchangable and are referring to 2 completely seperate documents,

Still wrong, they are the same
en.wikipedia.org...

then it must be the "long form" raised seal version, otherwise its meaningless.

What is meaningless is your claims, not based on any fact!

reply to post by skull_bones


The issue is Hawaii doesn't have or use long or short forms.

In 2001 they switched from Certificate to Certification. Sure people before 2001 have Certificates at the vault at the Hawaii Dept of Health, but they arn't used for anything other than building a case for Polynesian ancestry. Even then they are not required to build an ancestry case.

The Certification is used by both state and federal governments for various liscenses, passports, military service, etc.

Originally posted by cjdny
reply to post by dereks

 

You need to come back with something other than the Annenberg Foundation. It's a biased source.

Did you even see what I linked to? Obviously not, as it totally destroys birther claims!

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by skull_bones
But, anytime they refer to a "Birth Certificate" they are referring to a "long form" raised seal birth certificate,

Wrong again, that is just YOUR claim

The words, "Birth Certificate" and " Certificate of Live Birth" are not interchangable and are referring to 2 completely seperate documents,

Still wrong, they are the same
en.wikipedia.org...

then it must be the "long form" raised seal version, otherwise its meaningless.

What is meaningless is your claims, not based on any fact!

Thanks for the link, seems pretty clear.

Acceptance of short forms In the case of applying for a US passport, not all legitimate birth certificates are acceptable:

A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar's signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.

Beginning April 1, 2011, all birth certificates must also include the full names of the applicant's parent(s).[24]

Most hospitals in the U.S. issue a souvenir birth certificate which typically includes the footprints of the newborn. However, these birth certificates are not legally accepted as proof of age or citizenship, and are frequently rejected by the Bureau of Consular Affairs during passport applications. Many Americans believe the souvenir records to be their official birth certificates, when in reality they hold little legal value

Did you even bother to read any of that information in the link you provided because it really didnt help your case any.
.[

reply to post by cjdny


If you think about it, they would have to change it as no one has been issued a Certificate since 2001. It would only be useful for people born prior to 2001 to build a case, but totally useless for people born after and as such, denying them their entitled benefits.

I watched Anderson Cooper's show last night, and he had Trump on, and the birth issue, part 2 is on tonight. I'm not a Cooper/CNN fan, they seem like the White House propaganda arm to me, but this subject interests me so I watch what I see about it.

Yes, they tried to diminish the idea, they said the birthers where crazy bigots. But, they did say there IS a long form Birth Certificate in a vault, and showed people who saw it(I think), but they said it does exist. But, they said that's irrelevant because the Certification of Live Birth is the current legal document. So, they basically said, he does have a Long Form Certificate, but that don't matter, too bad, here's the short form.

They also played the audio of Obama's Grandmother(I think), in Kenya, where she was asked if she was at the birth place of Obama's birth in Kenya, and she says yes. Then the questioner says he thought Obama was born in Kenya, and then she says Hawaii....

So, I don't know about that, as she spoke through a translator, and could have been surrounded by minders. But, the question then I wondered was, was she is Hawaii during his birth? Now, that seems like it would be not too hard to see if this woman was in Hawaii during the time Obama was born.

Personally, I don't know, but I think I lean more to that he was born in Hawaii, but I also think he is purposely supressing the release of his LFBC because there is something on it he does not want public.

Why do these threads immediately deteriorate into proof or absence of proof? The BC argument is silly anyway.

The fact is that Obama is the US President who rules with an arrogance not unlike some past monarchs, but with beliefs that are more socialist than republic or constiutional.

Worst President ever and history will proove it. And don't think that I'm a staunch Republican. They don't have it right either (except Ron Paul).

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by SerenityGained
It lists his place of birth as Hawaii, and includes his religion as Islam. There is no letterhead, nor any identifying marks to determine where it was from. Rather then just repeat news, make some of your own.

Did you notice how confused the birthers are? They believe that is proof he is a Muslim even though it says he was born in Hawaii, it is not proof he was born in Hawaii. So, only some stuff on that paper is true.

What's funny about that? And, no. I did not notice how confused birthers are. All I notice is people like you in denial that there is a REAL problem making up pathetic excuses for the serious crime of flouting the Constitution of the USA. The school registration form saying that Obama's religion was Islam and that his birthplace was Hawaii is based upon information (true or false) his mother and stepfather provided the authorities in Indonesia. Some of it may not have been the whole truth in order to hide the problem of his true nationality, i.e., as his natural father was a British Kenyan, his nationality was British, not American. Both parents have to be American for Obama to be a natural-born American, which he clearly isn't, whether he was born in Hawaii or in Kenya/Mobassa. Indonesian law did not permit dual nationality, so he had to have given up his American or British nationality in order - as it states on his registration form - to become Indonesian. That means that he was inelegible to become president of the USA because only natural-born citizens can, not citizens where one of the parents was non-American or former citizens who re-applied for citizenship.

But, then, I expect the Constitution for you is just a "goddam piece of paper", as the last so-called president once said.

reply to post by tom502


If there was a conspiracy, there wouldn't be any suppression. The Dept of Health would just change what needed to be changed to fit.

Its far more likely the President either doesn't really care or he doesn't want to go through the FOIA mess to get his certificate. Personally I think he doesn't care or realize how fast the so called "Birther" movement is growing.

At the same time the conspiracy theory angle has some terribly flawed logic.

Typical humans on both sides with flawed logic guiding them until they crash into each other. History is full of past examples, usually of the violent kind.

Originally posted by micpsi
Both parents have to be American for Obama to be a natural-born American,

Yet another confused birther - exactly where did you get that from?

Indonesian law did not permit dual nationality, so he had to have given up his American or British nationality in order - as it states on his registration form - to become Indonesian.

Still confused, Obama never become a Indonesian....

not citizens where one of the parents was non-American

You are still very confused about Obama

You did a pretty lousy job. You are wrong on almost every point. There is clearly a reason why you refuse to cite your sources. They are either known lying POS propaganda sites, or they don't exist except in your imagination.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. In 1961 a grandparent who received a call or cable could have filed an affidavit for a COLB for a child born in Kenya. They also could have posted the announcements in the newspapers. The reason no one believes the "officials" is because no one believes anything the government says anymore. This is just one more example of taking someone's word who we don't trust.

If perhaps you can tell us why O has closed off every record that proves up his history, you could possibly shed some light on why nothing has been released. Until we have disclosure, we will not be satisfied or moved from the question. This seems a bit odd from someone who promised transparency but hides his history. Is this another case of "Do what I say but not what I do."

edit on 26-4-2011 by Nite_wing because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by filosophia
Obama is not releasing the BC.

Except that Obama HAS released his birth certificate (more than any other POTUS did whilst President) - why do birthers keep claiming he has not?

edit on 25/4/11 by dereks because: (no reason given)

reply to post by filosophia


Father or mother's citizenship is a non-issue. If he was born in Hawaii (as all records and facts seem to indicate) then he's a "natural born" citizen as required by the Constitution.

Look, I'm no fan of him either (didn't vote for him), but this birther thing is a dead horse that has been beaten to a pulp...

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by derst1988
What was released was a Certificate of Live Birth. Not the real Birth Certificate

Not that birther lie again, Obama showed the only birth certificate Hawaii currently issues. It IS a birth certificate

what obama showed would not even allow him to get a job as a mail man or rent a government run apartment.
Both of which are government run things.

Btw the obama camping took mcain to court to make sure he was a legal natural born citizen.
and he showed his long form.
But obama still has never..don't you find that funny?

reply to post by Freenrgy2


If he acted like a monarch he would be leading the charge to change or whatever grand design he has, if he has one. The cabinet secretaries are driving the bus. Heck, France has once again got us involved in another war where we didn't have any clear interests or objectives.

Meanwhile the country is on the verge of insolvency and we are all arguing over a stupid piece of paper sitting in some vault in Hawaii.

If we don't get our act together by the time whoever, the choices are grim, is elected in 2012, we can kiss our standard of living goodbye and say hello to the last days of the Republic.