A Torpedo of Truth : Is Charlie Sheen Being Prepped For Puppet Dictatorship or A Nutcase?, page 2

Originally posted by Stop-loss!
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

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$&F. I think Charlie sheen just need to take a chill pill every once in a while before he ends up in the paddy wagon to the insane asylum. One thing for sure though is he got famous for both the right and wrong reason throughout his career.

Well of course.

But that is the attraction of him as a distraction.

He makes the perfect "nut" to make all the squirrels chase their tails.

reply to post by timidgal

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Thank you very much.

I guess you can say I've been around the block.

A few times.

As far as ATS goes and making threads.

Working all of this towards several book series.

As far as your opinion and mine I can see we're going to disagree.

Which is fine.

I love debating topics such as this because it inspires civil discussion and ideas.

His "Puppet Candidacy" would not be the same as most others.

But very similar.

I think perhaps you forget everyone loves to hate "the bad guy" and he's going for that role.

He was already a Hollywood "bad boy" but more or less a screwed up dude out of control.

He has surpassed that by far now though and he's going on tours agitating people into action.

Exactly the wrong kind of action.

I agree with you about parental supporters.

But there are enough idiots out there who will follow another idiot in action.

Not that Sheen is necessarily an idiot, per se, but I think you get the drift.

A cult leader is a dictator in a sense they make demands and do stupid stuff.

Take Jim Jones as a prime example and the mass-suicide due to following megalomaniacs.

I know enough about cult leaders and how to spot them which is one of the many premises behind this thread, and many other friends and I've discussed and done, more towards the Puppet Dictator role, then discussing cult leaders at length though, we've discussed Jones, both Jim Jones and Alex Jones, both cult leaders, we've discussed Timothy McVeigh, we've discussed Randy Weaver, just as we've discussed David Koresh.

Charlie Sheen fits the pattern.

Whether the details are specific enough within the confines of this thread though, so far, is in question.

Of course.

I've only started at the tip of the iceberg and will delve deep if you're up for it.

It will be quite a wild ride delving into the rabbit hole that is Sheen's head.

Psychopath?

No.

Sociopath?

Yes.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Antisocial Personality Disorder : Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders fourth edition, DSM IV-TR = 301.7, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines antisocial personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as:

A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring for as long as either childhood, or in the case of many who are influenced by environmental factors, around age 15, as indicated by three or more of the following:

1.failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2.deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3.impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
4.irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5.reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6.consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7.lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;

B) The individual is at least 18 years of age.

C) There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.

D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.

New evidence points to the fact that children often develop Antisocial Personality Disorder as a cause of their environment, as well as their genetic line. The individual must be at least 18 years of age to be diagnosed with this disorder (Criterion B), but those commonly diagnosed with ASPD as adults were diagnosed with Conduct Disorder as children. The prevalence of this disorder is 3% in males and 1% from females, as stated from the DSM IV-TR.

At age 15 Charlie Sheen stole a credit card to buy time with a hooker.

It fits with all of his other nonsense into A. 1 - 7 in the definition above.

Of course his father Martin Sheen is largely responsible for Charlie's stupidity of actions.

There is that and of course all of the alcohol and cocaine he has snorted up his nose to rot his brain.

His entire life history could be an after school special about what teenagers should never do.

reply to post by itscocobaby

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He is looking for attention any which way he can get it.

Book deals, t-shirt sales, bumper stickers, you name it, he's doing it.

Been to his website?

I have been there he is pumping out products.

The real man inside?

There stopped being a real man the day he snorted cocaine and kept on snorting it.

A responsible man, for that is the only man I respect, would have finished rehab.

Martin Sheen is not even a real man for not manning up and throwing his son into rehab.

A real father would have done something long ago to get his son real help.

At the age of 10 years old I asked my stepfather the difference between legal and illegal drugs.

Innocently not knowing the can of worms I was about to open up.

He threatened to break my neck and leave me at the side of the road dead for the garbage men.

That is a real father, or stepfather, in this case, a man who loved me and did the right thing.

I became a man due to my stepfather a Vietnam era Marine who came back.

Healthy of body and mind.

See, I could understand someone's experimentation, into drugs, even possibly getting hooked.

But after a while it becomes something much bigger than personal choice and responsibility.

It becomes a lifestyle and you get in too deep and can never get out.

Martin Sheen, Emilio, and the rest of the Sheen clan should have had intervention for Charlie.

Cut him off financially.

Cut him out of the family.

Whatever it took to get him the help he needed.

Of course this could be just what Sheen needs to hit rock bottom.

But not if other people pay attention to him and support his stupidity.

I love Charlie Sheen as an actor but as a human being he's dead to me.

Yes, stranger things have happened, like Sonny Bono winning an office.

Just like Barack Obama not having been assassinated by now.

Sheen could actually make a full recovery.

But I doubt it.

I think within a few years he will be found obese and overdosed like Elvis Presley.

I do in all sincerity hope I'm wrong about that.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by timidgal

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As far as your opinion and mine I can see we're going to disagree.
Which is fine.
I love debating topics such as this because it inspires civil discussion and ideas.

Agreed and again, many of your points incited valid food for thought; however...

His "Puppet Candidacy" would not be the same as most others.
But very similar.
I think perhaps you forget everyone loves to hate "the bad guy" and he's going for that role.
He was already a Hollywood "bad boy" but more or less a screwed up dude out of control.
He has surpassed that by far now though and he's going on tours agitating people into action.
Exactly the wrong kind of action.

I still believe that his public displays of foolishness are what make him so diametrically different from other puppet candidates and whereas Americans have shown a tremendous naive propensity to engage in "selective memory" and overlook negative aspects of one's history, this type of "in your face" showmanship is a truly unique dynamic.

I agree with you about parental supporters.
But there are enough idiots out there who will follow another idiot in action.
Not that Sheen is necessarily an idiot, per se, but I think you get the drift.

Not only do I get your drift but I'm in absolute agreement. I think there is very little he has done that was not calculated to achieve his preconceived goals; however, the concept of the puppet master is where you and I differ but perhaps not in the way one might think. As I'm typing this, a different hypothesis is nagging at me because he truly presents such a unique enigma. I need to give it some more thought to let the concept gel before I can articulate it, but the end question might very well be "exactly who would be the real puppet master"?

A cult leader is a dictator in a sense they make demands and do stupid stuff.
Take Jim Jones as a prime example and the mass-suicide due to following megalomaniacs.
I know enough about cult leaders and how to spot them which is one of the many premises behind this thread, and many other friends and I've discussed and done, more towards the Puppet Dictator role, then discussing cult leaders at length though, we've discussed Jones, both Jim Jones and Alex Jones, both cult leaders, we've discussed Timothy McVeigh, we've discussed Randy Weaver, just as we've discussed David Koresh.
Charlie Sheen fits the pattern.

Fits the pattern but only to a certain point which you, yourself, answer in your synopsis of psychopaths vs sociopaths. Psychopaths, which I do not believe Charlie Sheen to be (hence my comment about his acting skills) are vile, narcissistically apathetic shells of human beings and most experts agree that the similarities between psychopaths and sociopaths diverge at the point of violence. Thus far, we've seen nothing in Charlie's behavior that would lead us (or me) to believe that he is sadistically violent (outside of what may or may not happen as part of his drug induced episodes). If you know otherwise, please do share...

Whether the details are specific enough within the confines of this thread though, so far, is in question.
Of course.
I've only started at the tip of the iceberg and will delve deep if you're up for it.
It will be quite a wild ride delving into the rabbit hole that is Sheen's head.

Oh my goodness - this is perhaps the most equally tempting and hideous offer I've received in a long long time although I profess that it appeals to my selfishly indulgent side. Taking a brief sabbatical from the atrocities unfolding around us on a daily basis, such as worldwide radiation from the Japanese catastrophe, lends a certain appeal to getting temporarily lost in that particular rabbit hole; however, I draw the line and will insist you scoot back out should the men on the chessboard start to talk backwards. Otherwise, let it rip...

I do enjoy your posts and the empirical similarities you continued to outline were right on target; however, I'm not as familiar as you with Martin Sheen's influence and history so please explain. Are you merely implying that he was a typical, Hollywood type over-indulgent father or is there more to that statement?

His entire life history could be an after school special about what teenagers should never do.

Isn't that the truth but let's not forget that those little buggers (which I say tongue in cheek as I have two of my own who I adore unconditionally) are the ones who would probably seal the deal on any future puppetry. The farther we keep them away from witnessing any of Charlie's antics, the better off we're all bound to be!!!

Originally posted by GovtFlu
"Has the cocaine, alcohol, and skirt-chasing finally caught up with him or is it the "Tiger's Blood"?"

Contrary to what the government and churches what people to believe: cocaine, alcohol, and skirt-chasing equals a FUN combination of adult activities.

I never have a problem skirt-chasing, seeking female companionship, or a potential wife is fun.

Alcohol, well, I've seen a father, my father, choose the bottom of a bottle of booze over family.

I have not spoken to my real father in 31 years because of that choice.

You do know cocaine can kill you doing it in the quantities Sheen snorts it, right?

Fun is not waking up in the hospital restrained with a tube down your throat choking on vomit.

Ever seen a drug overdose up close and personal?

I have.

Fun is not wasting all family and work relationships due to reckless behavior.

Ever seen a Ecstasy dosed man try to spiritually leave his body and enter yours?

I have.

Fun is not overdosing and never waking up.

Ever carted a dead body to the morgue due to a drug overdose with the family still crying?

I have.

I was a Security Officer in a hospital dealing with psyche patients and drug addicts.

I've been vomited on, spit on, had to take down mental and drug-addled people due to their behavior.

I have assisted the nurses and doctors in restraining drug overdoses in order to put charcoal in them.

To save their lives.

I've also consoled grieving parents who lost their son or daughter at many age ranges.

Teenagers and up to Charlie Sheen's age too.

Government, well, it can believe what it wants, but I've seen differently about their drug policy.

The Underground Empire: Where Crime and Governments Embrace

Quote from : The Underground Empire - Where Crime and Governments Embrace : Excerpt [Page 3:]

The inhabitants of the earth spend more money on illegal drugs than they spend on food.

More than they spend on housing, clothes, education, medical care, or any other product or service.

The international narcotics industry is the largest growth industry in the world.

Its annual revenues exceed half a trillion dollars -- three times the value of all United States currency in circulation, more than the gross national products of all but a half dozen of the major industrialized nations.

To imagine the immensity of such wealth consider this: A million dollars in gold would weigh as much as a large man.

A half-trillion dollars would weigh more than the entire population of Washington, D.C. Narcotics industry profits, secretly stockpiled in countries competing for the business, draw interest exceeding $3 million per hour.

To what use will this money eventually be put?

What will be its ultimate effect?

Though everyone knows narcotics is big business, its truly staggering dimensions have never been fully publicized.

The statistics on which the above statements are based appear in classified documents prepared with the participation of the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency.

These studies are circulated in numbered copies with warnings of "criminal sanctions" for unauthorized disclosure. Why is this information withheld from public view?

The international narcotics industry is, in fact, not an industry at all, but an empire.

Sovereign, proud, expansionist, this Underground Empire, though frequently torn by internal struggle, never fails to present a solid front to the world at large.

It has become today as ruthlessly acquisitive and exploitative as any nineteenth-century imperial kingdom, as far-reaching as the British Empire, as determinedly cohesive as the states of the American republic.

Aggressive and violent by nature, the Underground Empire maintains its own armies, diplomats, intelligence services, banks, merchant fleets, and air lines.

It seeks to extend its dominance by any means, from clandestine subversion to open warfare.

Legitimate nations combat its agents within their own borders, but effectively ignore its power internationally.

The United States government, while launching cosmetic "wars" on drugs and crime, has rarely attacked the Empire abroad, has never substantially diminished its international power, and does not today seriously challenge its growing threat to world stability.

Why is this so?

Do the world's governments not want to eliminate this expanding source of criminal wealth and power?

Has there in fact never been an attempt to mount a truly effective global assault against it?

Has there never existed -- does there not exist today -- some hidden, unpublicized, international force struggling against the Underground Empire?

And another book I sugest you read.

The Politics of Heroin: CIA Complicity in the Global Drug Trade

Publishers Weekly : Amazon Review :

Nearly 20 years ago, McCoy wrote The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia , which stirred up considerable controversy, alleging that the CIA was intimately involved in the Vietnamese opium trade.

In the current volume, a substantially updated and longer work, he argues that pk the situation basically hasn't changed over the past two decades; however the numbers have gotten bigger. McCoy writes, "Although the drug pandemic of the 1980s had complex causes, the growth in global heroin supply could be traced in large part to two key aspects of U.S. policy: the failure of the DEA's interdiction efforts and the CIA's covert operations."

He readily admits that the CIA's role in the heroin trade was an "inadvertent" byproduct of "its cold war tactics," but he limns convincingly the path by which the agency and its forebears helped Corsican and Sicilian mobsters reestablish the heroin trade after WW II and, most recently, "transformed southern Asia from a self-contained opium zone into a major supplier of heroin."

Scrupulously documented, almost numbingly so at times, this is a valuable corrective to the misinformation being peddled by anti-drug zealots on both sides of the aisle.

First serial to the Progressive.

Copyright 1991 Reed Business Information, Inc.

But common sense should be the watch-word, GovtFlu, common sense indeed.



Otherwise unscrupulous people do nasty things like putting Drain-O into the cocaine.

Church, it is another form of "Government", it just uses faith through spiritual blackmail as the control.

Whether I look at drugs through religion or common sense it makes no sense to me.

Originally posted by GovtFlu
If I indulge spending money I earned on natural Viagra plants that makes chicks horny, social lubricant beverages, and chasing like minded fun seeking "skirts"..all in private, nobody gets hurt.. having the time of my life, how do I lose?

Moderation is better than syphillis and other STD's is all I have to say about that.

One night stands might be fun but a shotgun wedding and lifelong scrotum problems are not.

I will date to find a mate and that's about it.

Originally posted by GovtFlu
Life is short, death is long.. I fully endorse anyone who decides to "Sheen out".. media clowns mock people who decide to IGNORE strangers and enjoy life on their own terms. How dare Sheen have un-approved "fun", who does this guy think he is?.. thinking for himself??.. ignoring the govt & church!!

I disagree.

Life may be short, in some regards, but in others it lasts longer and for good reasons.

And how do you know death is long?

What if we come back immediately in another life?

I thoroughly encourage people to think for themselves and have fun whether approved or "unapproved".

But doing something for no other reason than your mind needs that chemical is ignorant and stupid.

I can "get high" on life without a needle in my arm and without a dollar to snort the cocaine.

I Remote View daily, past, present, and future, and drugs are not what gets me there.

My mind is the only thing in tandem with my soul.

Originally posted by GovtFlu
Having fun your way, and flaunting it, Mr. Sheen, in an affront to officials who want the masses to believe un-fun drugs are impossible to moderate.. and judgmental dullard strangers who tell "crazy time" fun stories ending in "and then I got home".

Sure, Chuck, have the fun you want, your way, go for it buddy.

Have all the "fun" you want with the China White.

Just do not expect people to mourn your early death.

Because they will be shaking their head in sadness in the waste of your life.

Two and a Half Men was one of Charlie Sheen's best accomplishments.

He got to play himself, got paid for it, and got to entertain a lot of people laughing with him.

Instead of laughing at him.

I'm not laughing at him, instead I'm praying a silent vigil, that he will wake the Hell up.

Before he dies without knowing his children like my father did through alcoholism.

Originally posted by GovtFlu
He's being demonized, in part, for being an exception to the establishments "drugs are bad" rule IMO.. DC would be cool if he was toe taping in public toilets, or drunkenly singing sweet nothing to young boys.

Actually, D.C. would be cool, if anyone there actually did their damn jobs, and quickly.

Without screwing the mass populace and jerking our chains about their caring.

When they clearly do not.

It's all about the money to them and nothing else.

For The Love Of Money - The O'Jays (1973)


Money, money, money, and making more, while robbing us blind and stabbing us in the back.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

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Hi..No I have not been to his website, I'll have to take a look at it...please forgive me SpartanKingLeonidas if I seem to go off topic, I'm trying to make a case here so bare with me if you would.

Charlie has actually been one of the lucky ones from the Hollywood child star crowd. Theirs a long list of child stars who have lived similar lives and not been so lucky as Charlie to still be breathing.

Gary Coleman. Gary's recent death came after he struck his head during a fall. After his successful turn in 'Diff'rent Strokes,' Gary's career was overshadowed by his legal and financial troubles. He was 42.

Brad Renfro. While he had a promising career after he appeared in 'The Client' when he was barely 13-years-old, his drug addiction overshadowed his talents. In 2008, Brad was found dead in his LA apartment after an apparent heroin overdose.

River Phoenix. The autopsy showed lethal levels of cocaine and morphine (heroin shows up as morphine, as the body metabolizes), Valium, marijuana and ephedrine Official cause of death was acute multiple drug ingestion. He was 23 years old.

Corey Haim. Beloved teen idol Corey battled a massive drug addiction after his career fizzled in the '90s. Corey passed away in March of this year due to pneumonia complications. He was 38.

Dana Plato. Dana's death often serves as a touchstone for the tragic death's of other child star who fell from grace. Like Gary, the "Diff'rent Strokes' star saw her career fizzle after the hit show and she even resorted to doing pornography. In 1999 she committed suicide. She was 34.

Brigette Andersen. Like many other child stars on this list, he adorable star of "Savannah Smiles" faced problems with drug and alcohol. After her career completely fizzled, Brigette became more and more addicted to heroin and other drugs. In 1997 she accidentally overdosed. She was 21.

Anissa Jones. Pig-tailed Buffy from "Family Affair" saw her career skyrocket thanks to the show but had trouble finding work after the show was canceled. In 1976 she died in a friend's home, apparently from an accidental overdose. She was 18.

Michael Jackson. The King of Pop got his start as the adorable front-man for The Jackson 5. Eventually Michael achieved international success with his solo career, establishing him as musical legend. Unfortunately, his career was undermined by accusations of pedophilia and financial and legal troubles. In 2009 he died from an apparent prescription drug overdose. He was 50.

Read more at ONTD: ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com...

My point I guess is that child stars are actually children..real people and they must become immersed in their public persona that's created for them by the studios and the roles they play, becoming devoid of a real sense of self. I agree with you that parents play a huge role in the down fall of many of these child stars. Martin Sheen should force Charlie into rehab, but again we don't know what is going on behind the scenes and drugs and alcohol and the choice to do them or abstain is up to the individual. No one can make anyone stop that's hell bent on being addicted as parents or loved ones of people who face addiction know, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. So maybe his family has tried..we don't really know.

I'm sure many of these children have suffered a great deal, anyone who needs to get lost in addiction and continue on with drugs and or alcohol is a person in severe pain or suffering from a mental disorder. Suddenly it's become popular to glamorize child/teen stars by promoting their escapades, Lindsay Lohan and Brittany Spears are 2 that come to mind. Both these teen idols parents have stepped in and tried to help their daughters and hopefully they have had some success. But again these are not normal children..they have not ever lived a normal life, well not in many years. They have become what we all read about in the news they believe there own press releases and propaganda and seem unable to find out who they really are they probably have never had the chance. I think society and the media plays a huge role in shaping them..they have become public property with every sordid detail of there lives splashed across the headlines with every wrong move they make. It's then over sensationalized and we see the stories on the MSM loop being replayed over and over again, what should be a Tragedy becomes then free publicity and fuels more of the same. If you are a child star without a contract then even this becomes an attractive alternative to get attention. Remember these kids were loved, adored and admired by millions of fans. How devastating when you are no longer needed or wanted..what that must feel like I for one can't even imagine. It's sad really.

Speaking for myself I can only say that I have sympathy for these children. Many have worked since they were 5 years old, bringing us the public joy and laughter and as we watch the downward spiral grief and disbelief and sadness when we hear of an untimely death. I like Charlie Sheen he has made us laugh and entertained me and my family for many years. So Charlie if you read this..PLEASE get help..get it together man. So you don't end up on the list at the top of this post. cheers coco

Originally posted by timidgal
Agreed and again, many of your points incited valid food for thought; however...

Sparking interesting conversation is quite fun.

Originally posted by timidgal
I still believe that his public displays of foolishness are what make him so diametrically different from other puppet candidates and whereas Americans have shown a tremendous naive propensity to engage in "selective memory" and overlook negative aspects of one's history, this type of "in your face" showmanship is a truly unique dynamic.

Of course it is which is why his flaming out piqued my interest.

Charlie Sheen is definitely a different kind of person.

While he interests me as an actor, nothing about his life inspires me, and I'm not a follower of the Sheen frenzy.

His actions are doing nothing more than chumming up the waters with blood.

And one has to wonder if the man is in constant communications with Quaddaffi.

Originally posted by timidgal
Not only do I get your drift but I'm in absolute agreement. I think there is very little he has done that was not calculated to achieve his preconceived goals; however, the concept of the puppet master is where you and I differ but perhaps not in the way one might think. As I'm typing this, a different hypothesis is nagging at me because he truly presents such a unique enigma. I need to give it some more thought to let the concept gel before I can articulate it, but the end question might very well be "exactly who would be the real puppet master"?

I can see his actions drawing out the lunatic fringe.

Let us say perhaps those attending wherever he shows up get on a list.

Like a new No-Fly List or some new form of database where Government watches our actions.

That is the first thing that came to my mind when he went off his nut.

Are You "Right-Wing Fringe", or "Left-Wing Fringe" and How Will They Push You

The above thread is one I did based on my perception of the "left verses right" nonsense.

If people can either be lured or pushed into a fringe element they are more easily identified.

And possibly later scooped up for Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to be added as terrorists.

Originally posted by timidgal
Fits the pattern but only to a certain point which you, yourself, answer in your synopsis of psychopaths vs sociopaths. Psychopaths, which I do not believe Charlie Sheen to be (hence my comment about his acting skills) are vile, narcissistically apathetic shells of human beings and most experts agree that the similarities between psychopaths and sociopaths diverge at the point of violence. Thus far, we've seen nothing in Charlie's behavior that would lead us (or me) to believe that he is sadistically violent (outside of what may or may not happen as part of his drug induced episodes). If you know otherwise, please do share...

I haven't seen proof of him being violent, yet, but the drug induced stupidity is something I'm watching.

There are so many key markers in his behavior that fall into the pattern.

I'm just watching to see where his madness leads so I can be elsewhere.

Originally posted by timidgal
Oh my goodness - this is perhaps the most equally tempting and hideous offer I've received in a long long time although I profess that it appeals to my selfishly indulgent side. Taking a brief sabbatical from the atrocities unfolding around us on a daily basis, such as worldwide radiation from the Japanese catastrophe, lends a certain appeal to getting temporarily lost in that particular rabbit hole; however, I draw the line and will insist you scoot back out should the men on the chessboard start to talk backwards. Otherwise, let it rip...

Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass always thrilled me.

I've seen parallels when it comes to Sheen with Manson, Kaczynski, Jones (Alex and Jim), and Koresh.

Kaczynski has fascinated me, and his misadventures made me wonder, what happened to him.

Personally, I think Kaczynski's delving into being a lab rat, at Berkely with L.S.D. is what pushed him.

But that is another discussion altogether and more in depth about MK-ULTRA and Mirror Worlds.

Originally posted by timidgal
I do enjoy your posts and the empirical similarities you continued to outline were right on target; however, I'm not as familiar as you with Martin Sheen's influence and history so please explain. Are you merely implying that he was a typical, Hollywood type over-indulgent father or is there more to that statement?

Digging into Martin Sheen a little I just noticed something very disturbing.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Martin Sheen : Early Life

Sheen was born in Dayton, Ohio, the son of Francisco Estévez (1898–1974) and his wife, Mary Ann Phelan (1903–1951).

During birth his left arm was crushed by forceps, giving him limited lateral movement of his left arm, which is three inches shorter than his right.

His father Francisco Estévez was a factory worker/machinery inspector at the National Cash Register Company.

Both of Sheen's parents were immigrants, his father from Parderrubias, Galicia, Spain and his mother from Borrisokane, County Tipperary, Ireland.

After moving to Dayton in the 1930s, Estévez worked for the National Cash Register Company.

National Cash Register, or NCR, is one of the organizations influenced by I.B.M.

Due to Thomas J. Watson the man who was C.E.O. of I.B.M. during WWII.

This means Martin Sheen, through his father, was influenced by a fascist, Watson supported Hitler.

IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance Between Nazi Germany and America's Most Powerful Corporation

Amazon Review :

Was IBM, "The Solutions Company," partly responsible for the Final Solution?

That's the question raised by Edwin Black's IBM and the Holocaust, the most controversial book on the subject since Daniel Jonah Goldhagen's Hitler's Willing Executioners.

Black, a son of Holocaust survivors, is less tendentiously simplistic than Goldhagen, but his thesis is no less provocative: he argues that IBM founder Thomas Watson deserved the Merit Cross (Germany's second-highest honor) awarded him by Hitler, his second-biggest customer on earth.

"IBM, primarily through its German subsidiary, made Hitler's program of Jewish destruction a technologic mission the company pursued with chilling success," writes Black.

"IBM had almost single-handedly brought modern warfare into the information age [and] virtually put the 'blitz' in the krieg."

The crucial technology was a precursor to the computer, the IBM Hollerith punch card machine, which Black glimpsed on exhibit at the U.S. Holocaust Museum, inspiring his five-year, top-secret book project.

The Hollerith was used to tabulate and alphabetize census data. Black says the Hollerith and its punch card data ("hole 3 signified homosexual ... hole 8 designated a Jew") was indispensable in rounding up prisoners, keeping the trains fully packed and on time, tallying the deaths, and organizing the entire war effort.

Hitler's regime was fantastically, suicidally chaotic; could IBM have been the cause of its sole competence: mass-murdering civilians?

Better scholars than I must sift through and appraise Black's mountainous evidence, but clearly the assessment is overdue.

The moral argument turns on one question: How much did IBM New York know about IBM Germany's work, and when?

Black documents a scary game of brinksmanship orchestrated by IBM chief Watson, who walked a fine line between enraging U.S. officials and infuriating Hitler.

He shamefully delayed returning the Nazi medal until forced to--and when he did return it, the Nazis almost kicked IBM and its crucial machines out of Germany.

(Hitler was prone to self-defeating decisions, as demonstrated in How Hitler Could Have Won World War II.)

Black has created a must-read work of history.

But it's also a fascinating business book examining the colliding influences of personality, morality, and cold strategic calculation. --Tim Appelo

Is Charlie rebelling against father, a closet Nazi sympathizer, because something pushed him?

I'm not saying any of that is proven and I am speculating.

However, I've delved into Watson, I.B.M., and how they tracked down the Jews.

Now, having that kind of family secret, if true, could very well be what made him rebel against daddy.

Of course, Martin Sheen could be the typical Hollywood father, too liberal and too kind.

Instead of kicking Charlie in the ass when he needed it the most.

Originally posted by timidgal
Isn't that the truth but let's not forget that those little buggers (which I say tongue in cheek as I have two of my own who I adore unconditionally) are the ones who would probably seal the deal on any future puppetry. The farther we keep them away from witnessing any of Charlie's antics, the better off we're all bound to be!!!

Too true.

Thanks for inspiring me to dig deeper.

I think this thread just got a lot more interesting.

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