Whitehouse's view on gas prices

reply to post by ripcontrol


www.mywesttexas.com...

This is the Midland Reporter Telegram, Midland TX (it is kind of like the major West Texas oil hub).

A three-inch lizard that thrives in desert conditions could shut down oil and gas operations in portions of Southeast New Mexico and in West Texas, including the state's top two oil producing counties.

Called the Dunes Sagebrush Lizard, it is being considered for inclusion on the federal Endangered Species listing by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. A public rally to oppose this move is being sponsored by the Permian Basin Petroleum Association on Tuesday, April 26 at Midland Center beginning at 5 p.m. Congressman Mike Conaway will speak, as will Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson; other public officials have been invited.

"We are very concerned about the Fish and Wildlife Service listing," said Ben Shepperd, president of the PBPA, noting the service also has proposed listing the Lesser Prairie Chicken next year. "The wolf at the door is the lizard; we're concerned listing it would shut down drilling activity for a minimum of two years and as many as five years while the service determines what habitat is needed for the lizard. That means no drilling, no seismic surveys, no roads built, no electric lines."

The move would impact activity in Andrews, Crane, Gaines, Ward and Winkler counties in Texas and Chaves, Eddy, Lea and Roosevelt counties in New Mexico.

Andrews is a depot for low level radioactive waste (I think a Waste Management operation). That would be shut down as well. Without oil, I can guarantee you that every county listed above will be decimated. It is the only thing those places have. I grew up out this way, and have been in each of the Texas counties a dozen times over on various school related events (and most as an adult, too). The base industry in each and every town is oil. Without it, the communities are done.

What really sucks is that Austin doesn't care about us out here. If you live west of I-35, Austin doesn't care one bit about you.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


But is the 'lizard' just an excuse being used by the oil companies to cover up the fact that they have sucked the wells dry?

It's an honest question. Industry often likes to do that after they over-harvest. That's what the logging industry did in the 80s and 90's, and what certain big agriculturists have done in the california central valley recently.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by incrediblelousminds

 

Curious if you have ever worked in the oil business. Because, from this West Texan's point of view you are getting it all wrong.

No, as I've already clearly stated in this thread my opinion is not based on experience in the industry, but on the data available by those within the industry.

"Tax breaks" are another way of saying "We won't screw you so hard".

Subsidies are not the same as tax breaks.

You think oil is high now, wait till they start protecting this little lizard we have down here. Once that happens, the New Mexico and West Texas oilfields will be, for all intent and purpose, off limits.

Yes, I am aware that the oil industry will continue to find all kinds of scapegoats for their price-gauging. "Environmentalists', "Liberals", "Communists', "Muslims". The list is quite predictable and cliche.

reply to post by incrediblelousminds


I will tell you what i know. I don't work in the industry. I work in an industry that relies on the oil industry (like everyone else), and am on local city committees related to things like economic development. So i get information from folks who are people like landmen, local bankers, hotel owners (i used to manage a hotel here), and a VERY large refinery.

From what I understand, there have been some production problems at one of the larger refineries (Houston), and our local refinery (I made a thread on a propane explosion at it a few years back) has been cleaning up. There is high demand for their service. So, currently in the area from us north up to Canada, the refining costs are higher. This has its own nominal effect, but it is a link in the chain...

....which ends with speculators. Not to say that speculator markets are not corrupt (housing bubble? gold?).

Here is how i make blame:

The middle east revolutions are a joke. The only nation that we got involved with was Libya. That is also the only one that wasn't on the Reserve Banking system. The other nations that had revolutions just traded in for a different (hopefully softer) form of tyranny. Take Egypt....the interim leader in Egypt. Well known for his brutality as head of Egyptian "intelligence".

We are now paying higher pump costs because of the strife in Libya, along with a few other pieces of news that has come out.

90% of the "speculation" is total BS. It is a jittery, paranoid market. I hate Obama slightly more than Bush. But on the surface there is little blame. Unless our causing unrest in the middle east is to be considered (I personally believe it...not everyone does).

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

But is the 'lizard' just an excuse being used by the oil companies to cover up the fact that they have sucked the wells dry?

It's an honest question. Industry often likes to do that after they over-harvest. That's what the logging industry did in the 80s and 90's, and what certain big agriculturists have done in the california central valley recently.

Our wells are anything but dry. They are drilling more and more and more. Everywhere you see them. And where they don't have oil wells, there are windmills. The joke is, "It wouldn't be so windy if they wouldn't have put all those fans out there."

We also have a solar plant going in nearby, right by the refinery (most of the jet fuel used in the southwest is made here and piped out).

But as it regards oil, there is a ton of it left over from the Permian era. This was a massive shallow sea, and the oil deposits are very rich.

Question: What if Bush were President and gas prices were approaching the 5 dollar mark?


Hope and Change!



Nothing to see people, move along.

reply to post by Alxandro


do you always just string random words together to make a post?

Bush puppy McCain straw charcoal.

reply to post by incrediblelousminds


Nice attempt at deflection.
I think you proved my point.

Originally posted by Alxandro
Question: What if Bush were President and gas prices were approaching the 5 dollar mark?


Hope and Change!

Nothing to see people, move along.

Very nice, pretty much sums the current situation up, nothing further to say as it has become crystal clear that there is absolutely no change left, and hope has left the building

Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by incrediblelousminds

 

Nice attempt at deflection.
I think you proved my point.

You're right.

You proved that blaming ANY POTUS for gas prices is nonsensical, as they are set by the industry.

ETA: unless, of course, you believe in some version of a Socialist government where the Government sets prices. How bout it, commie?

I believe the best way to make a shift from oil-dependent cars isn't to hurt the consumer's (because if he doesn't spend that dollar on gas, he will spend it on a commodity, which will fuel job growth) purchasing power, but to go after the producers. Levy a heavy disincentive (different, larger, tax bracket for funding gas-powered car research) or, in combination, heavy incentives to produce non gas-powered vehicles.

an update before I weigh in

Whitehouse reschedules

INDIANAPOLIS -- The White House says President Barack Obama will talk about plans for dealing with rising gas prices when he travels to Indianapolis on Friday for a postponed visit to an auto parts manufacturer.

Sunday's announcement says Obama will tour the Allison Transmission plant in Indianapolis, then talk to workers about his plans "to protect consumers against rising oil prices and decrease oil imports."

and

Whitehouse grasp life raft

Let’s be candid here: President Obama’s approval ratings are on the skids, his over-hyped budget talk was widely panned by all but his most devoted followers, and gas prices are taking a hit on his standing and prospects for reelection. The Post reported earlier this week:

not much has changed.....

Several suggestions but they require definitions...

OPEC

This is the home website I believe

about us

from here you can get a lot more...


OPEC wikipedia

The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC, pronounced /ˈoʊpɛk/ OH-pek) is an intergovernmental organization of twelve developing countries made up of Algeria, Angola, Ecuador, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Venezuela. OPEC has maintained its headquarters in Vienna since 1965,[2] and hosts regular meetings among the oil ministers of its Member Countries. Indonesia withdrew in 2008 after it became a net importer of oil, but stated it would likely return if it became a net exporter again.[3]

According to its statutes, one of the principal goals is the determination of the best means for safeguarding the organization's interests, individually and collectively. It also pursues ways and means of ensuring the stabilization of prices in international oil markets with a view to eliminating harmful and unnecessary fluctuations; giving due regard at all times to the interests of the producing nations and to the necessity of securing a steady income to the producing countries; an efficient and regular supply of petroleum to consuming nations, and a fair return on their capital to those investing in the petroleum industry.[4]

OPEC's influence on the market has been widely criticized, since it became effective in determining production and prices. Arab members of OPEC alarmed the developed world when they used the “oil weapon” during the Yom Kippur War by implementing oil embargoes and initiating the 1973 oil crisis. Although largely political explanations for the timing and extent of the OPEC price increases are also valid, from OPEC’s point of view[citation needed], these changes were triggered largely by previous unilateral changes in the world financial system and the ensuing period of high inflation in both the developed and developing world. This explanation encompasses OPEC actions both before and after the outbreak of hostilities in October 1973, and concludes that “OPEC countries were only 'staying even' by dramatically raising the dollar price of oil.”[5]

what grabbed

Production disputes

The economic needs of the OPEC member states often affects the internal politics behind OPEC production quotas. Various members have pushed for reductions in production quotas to increase the price of oil and thus their own revenues.[19] These demands conflict with Saudi Arabia's stated long-term strategy of being a partner with the world's economic powers to ensure a steady flow of oil that would support economic expansion.[20] Part of the basis for this policy is the Saudi concern that expensive oil or oil of uncertain supply will drive developed nations to conserve and develop alternative fuels. To this point, former Saudi Oil Minister Sheikh Yamani famously said in 1973: "The stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones."[21]

One such production dispute occurred on September 10, 2008, when the Saudis reportedly walked out of OPEC negotiating session where the organization voted to reduce production. Although Saudi Arabian OPEC delegates officially endorsed the new quotas, they stated anonymously that they would not observe them. The New York Times quoted one such anonymous OPEC delegate as saying “Saudi Arabia will meet the market’s demand. We will see what the market requires and we will not leave a customer without oil. The policy has not changed.”[22]

They control 79% of the worlds oil supply....


Supply and Demand

Supply and demand is an economic model of price determination in a market. It concludes that in a competitive market, the unit price for a particular good will vary until it settles at a point where the quantity demanded by consumers (at current price) will equal the quantity supplied by producers (at current price), resulting in an economic equilibrium of price and quantity.

The four basic laws of supply and demand are:[1]

1. If demand increases and supply remains unchanged, then it leads to higher equilibrium price and quantity.
2. If demand decreases and supply remains unchanged, then it leads to lower equilibrium price and quantity.
3. If supply increases and demand remains unchanged, then it leads to lower equilibrium price and higher quantity.
4. If supply decreases and demand remains unchanged, then it leads to higher price and lower quantity.

and

Mixed economy

A mixed economy (or balanced economy) is an economy that includes a variety of private and public control, reflecting characteristics of both capitalism and socialism.[1] Most mixed economies can be described as market economies with strong regulatory oversight, in addition to having a variety of government sponsored aspects. See (Elements of a mixed economy)

The US is a mixed economy...

Not a free market economy

therefore solutions designed for a free market economy will not work because of the socialist nature of a mixed economy

and

a socialist solution designed for a planned economy will not work because of the free market nature of a mixed economy


what comes next is

Corporate Crime

In criminology, corporate crime refers to crimes committed either by a corporation (i.e., a business entity having a separate legal personality from the natural persons that manage its activities), or by individuals that may be identified with a corporation or other business entity (see vicarious liability and corporate liability). Note that some forms of corporate corruption may not actually be criminal if they are not specifically illegal under a given system of laws. For example, some jurisdictions allow insider trading.

This form of corruption is what comes from the mixed economy's nature....

So apparently the US government is left with conflicting needs and wants from those pursuing power...

among those

Lack of control over the supply....

Which is a national security concern...

Economic Warfare

Economic warfare is the term for economic policies followed as a part of military operations during wartime.

The purpose of economic warfare is to capture critical economic resources so that the military can operate at full efficiency and/or deprive the enemy forces of those resources so that they cannot fight the war properly.

The concept of economic warfare is most applicable to conflict between nation states, especially in times of total war - which involves not only the armed forces of a nation, but mobilization of the nation's entire economy towards the war effort. In such a situation, causing damage to the economy of the enemy directly damages the enemy's ability to fight the war.

so much can go here but I will wait

They control key natural resources. What can you do? Socialist, communist, fascist, corporatist, capitalist, they OWN/SIT ON those assets. As long as you need them, and we do oh so badly, you will be at their beck and call. The only solution is to A. make synthetic oil in enough quality to be a real substitute for natural oil, B. change up the ingredients in our goods (because oil is very important in plastics and the manufacture of others goods beyond the pump)/use alternative fuels. It's called a /natural/ monopoly (or oligopoly if you wanna get into semantics).

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


If I was governor of texas this is part of an issue I feel that could be leveraged against the other 49 states that would give the texas economy a huge edge...


The development of energy resources across the board would bring a lot of jobs back... a whole lot...


As a side note this question just got bit by Osamas death...

which actually might give texas some leway to develop the edge

This is the majority of Americans...

Well first I have to tell you that due to personal differences... I have found that my personality does not mesh well with what you stand for... never has and never will..

BUT, and it is a big one...

The causes of this aforementioned dislike is also the same reason I have NEVER stood by and let yall be screwed over if I could help it...

It has cost me a lot of the years and I have always given this answer... It is personal that is why...

(I lost at least the support of three officers and their assorted chiefs over issues in this area...)


For the more intelligent and dishonest here on ATS let me translate...


You need their support before you move an inch... Even the O-,man has had to bow to this... It cost the democrats 2010....

You never tell man who works for living they have to give you money cause it is right....


so for the other part of this translation...

I start with a story..

A kid (e-2) in the navy was getting screwed over quite bad by command... Well my natural distaste for authority ( honest no other reason) decided I would help him... We made a few maneuvers and viola... command missed its shot...

They threw a big pissy fit and tried to find out where he got the help from... But the story starts at a bar shortly afterwords...

I get surrounded by about three gang bangers.. (woman are a great distraction ) well next thing I know I wake up in the back of of a truck as it peels out of the bar another person jumps into the back with his arms around a girl...

My friend I help is driving... His cousin and his buddies are in the back of the truck.....

Oh did I forget something... His cousin is still A member of uncle sam's misguided children.. as where his cousins buddies...

I found out later on That they watched me go down via ambush... he jumped up and the littlest gang banger pulled a knife on him and well.. Ask the Marines on this site what happens when someone pulls a knife on a marines family member...

BTW, the girl was the one I was talking to.. they pulled her out too...

I have seen this happen time and time again.... the working class protects those who protect them... And this is where we reach the end of the problem...

The Working class now knows they are being screwed over... And the deals are not being honored by those in power...

Working Class (working poor)

Working class (or Lower class, Labouring class) is a term used in the social sciences and in ordinary conversation to describe those employed in lower tier jobs (as measured by skill, education and lower incomes), often extending to those in unemployment or otherwise possessing below-average incomes. Working classes are mainly found in industrialized economies and in urban areas of non-industrialized economies.

IMHO, the only set of psycho-historical numbers stopping a revolution is this...

Both sides continually attempt to continually energize this set of individuals... They do not realize that they have an ongoing countdown....

An organism acting as swarm intelligence will develop an immunity to control methods.... In sociolgy it happens faster, especially nowadays...


I for one am sick and tired of TPTB lying. What is the saddest if they where honest those they wish for support from would back them....

Example...

"We are not leaving Iraq or Afghanistan because we are going to have to maintain stability of the area. It is one of the many ways we have to behave to keep the price of gas from going up. It is also why we are considering going into Iran. So you the american producer and american consumer no longer have to be gouged by OPEC.

To our allies Russia, Isreal, Japan, Brazil, and UK, we do not want your cost to go up either. So that we can maintain what trade we have at affordable prices for all. You want in. I think OPEC has got a little to big for its britches. Together we can maintain a balance of power in our nations favor."

simple and truthful....
You know how many americans would back this play...

reply to post by ripcontrol


The solution to high gas prices is located in our past.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 15, 2008 gas was $4 a gallon.
George W. Bush opened drilling off shore in the USA.
4 months later gas was $1.61 a gallon December 15, 2008.
$4 Gas --- 4 months later --- $1.61 a gallon

reply to post by Eurisko2012


I want to tell you, not ask..

open a thread in general conspiracies for this... solid proof and I will give you the first S and F.... nice find....


My reason is that it is part of this, but it is also big enough to get a response....and it can stand alone....

HEY ATS!!!! let him know you want this thread I'll bump it till you do!!!!

great find will wait on thread....

reply to post by ripcontrol


What are you talking about ???

Did you click on the link?
Obama says there is no silver bullet for high gas prices. Wrong!
President George W. Bush found the silver bullet back in July 2008.

- GOP House already on the move -