All about Zion and its religion and culture

reply to post by SuperiorEd


I'll have to agree with Iknowstuff...the Egyptians were the first to prosper in mathematics and science.

Sorry guys made a mistake, corrected it below. Is there anyway to completely remove this post?

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Yes we have already established you have lots of modern examples but my question was what did they offer prior to that? I can name thousands of modern discoveries not made but Jews. can you name more than a handfull of Jewish contributors to science, philosophy, art etc prior to the 19th century

How is mentioning something attributed to god got anything to do with Jewish discoveries?????
And if you look at earlier ancient texts they are alot more intriguing and scientific than the Talmud or Torah which were both based on Sumerian writings anyway.

Ive heard of light being wave and particle but the bible saying "This is the wave that carries the light" I dont see any correlation as he was talking about Jesus not physics.

I checked out the link RE hexagrams and gotta be honest dude it seemed like nonsense to me, thats not to say that it is just that I didnt understand it. It would be great if you could perhaps summarize for me what it all means.

So anyway.. we got the last hundred years, yeah they done some good stuff and for the sake of argument Ill give ya the beggining of time nonsense but what about the intervening 3500 years or however long its been since the bible says the world was created? can you give me a few examples of Jewish Scientific superiority in that time period?
edit on 24-4-2011 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by dude69
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

I'll have to agree with Iknowstuff...the Egyptians were the first to prosper in mathematics and science.

edit on 24-4-2011 by dude69 because: (no reason given)

Enoch was the first. Jasher Chapter 3. Enoch built the pyramids as a monument to the Lord. Isaiah 19:19 "19 In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border. 20 It will be a sign and witness to the LORD Almighty in the land of Egypt."

Enoch was pre-flood. Joseph was the one to come interpret for the Egyptians. He was PtahHotep, Visier of the 5th Dynasty. His writings are the oldest papyrus called the Maxims of PtahHotep. This reads biblically while the other texts from Egypt read like paganism.

Moses was then schooled in the courts of this knowledge and left with the nation of Israel.

Hermes Trismegistus was three times great. He was the messenger to God and lived 300 years in Egypt as Thoth. Enoch walked with God 300 years and taught men science.

Hermes gives us the Corpus Hermeticum. In the first book, he says this:

From the Corpus Hermeticum, Poimandres.

"The Light," he siad. "That is I, Nous, your God, who was before the watery substance which appeared out of the darkness; and the clear Word from Nous is the Son of God.

"How can that be", I said

"Know this", He said, "That which sees and hears within you is separate from each other, for their union is life."

Also, Book 13

Son Tat: "Tell me this also. Who is the author of rebirth?"
Hermes: "The Son of God, man complete, and this by God's will."

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

See the quote above and do some reading on Hermes. Here is the Emerald Table of Hermes (Enoch, Joseph, Moses).

0) Balinas mentions the engraving on the table in the hand of Hermes, which says:
1) Truth! Certainty! That in which there is no doubt!
2) That which is above is from that which is below, and that which is below is from that which is above, working the miracles of one.
3) As all things were from one.
4) Its father is the Sun and its mother the Moon.
5) The Earth carried it in her belly, and the Wind nourished it in her belly,
7) as Earth which shall become Fire.
7a) Feed the Earth from that which is subtle, with the greatest power.
8) It ascends from the earth to the heaven and becomes ruler over that which is above and that which is below.
14) And I have already explained the meaning of the whole of this in two of these books of mine.

The miracle of one thing is the union of two. The sun and the moon come together. The eyes, nose, ears, hands, arms, legs, fingers, sperm and egg. It all starts with the union of of light and wave. This is the overall union of particle and wave duality.

Ephesians 2:14

"For he Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,"

Peace comes from Love. Love brings Hope. Hope and Love are a union that brings Faith. 1 Corinthians 13

Bias is what destroys. It blinds. If robs you of your focus that could otherwise bring enlightenment to truth.

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Yes we have already established you have lots of modern examples but my question was what did they offer prior to that? I can name thousands of modern discoveries not made but Jews. can you name more than a handfull of Jewish contributors to science, philosophy, art etc prior to the 19th century

How is mentioning something attributed to god got anything to do with Jewish discoveries?????
And if you look at earlier ancient texts they are alot more intriguing and scientific than the Talmud or Torah which were both based on Sumerian writings anyway.

Ive heard of light being wave and particle but the bible saying "This is the wave that carries the light" I dont see any correlation as he was talking about Jesus not physics.

I checked out the link RE hexagrams and gotta be honest dude it seemed like nonsense to me, thats not to say that it is just that I didnt understand it. It would be great if you could perhaps summarize for me what it all means.

So anyway.. we got the last hundred years, yeah they done some good stuff and for the sake of argument Ill give ya the beggining of time nonsense but what about the intervening 3500 years or however long its been since the bible says the world was created? can you give me a few examples of Jewish Scientific superiority in that time period?
edit on 24-4-2011 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)

reply to post by SuperiorEd


OK.....

Another post that ignored my question and gave me refferences for things that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Ill try again

Yes we have already established you have lots of modern examples but my question was what did they offer prior to that? I can name thousands of modern discoveries not made but Jews. can you name more than a handfull of Jewish contributors to science, philosophy, art etc prior to the 19th century

why did you bring up Hermes Trismegistus???
He has nothing to do with Jewish scientific achievements?????

Your way off topic so I assume your now trying to make a different point to your first one, do you mind sharing what it is your getting at in your own words and without reffering to something really obscure.

P.s I am genuinely interested in the Hexagram thing, can you pls explain in simple terms what thats all about?

Enoch was Hermes. This is obvious if you read Jasher, Genesis and Enoch 1. The entire story ties in with the overall picture of God giving this light to man. Enoch builds the monument to God mentioned in Isaiah 19:19. The flood happens. Joseph interprets the dreams of pharaoh and then marries a priests daughter. He is Visier in the 5th Dynasty. He writes the Maxims of PtahHotep. This is psychology 101. Moses is schooled in the courts of Egyptian schools. All of this is preserved knowledge from God to man.

Hermes writes 40 volumes of information that mankind has used for the rest of history. This was lost in the fire of Alexandria when the Roman empire tried to stamp it out. My guess is, the 40 volumes are locked in the basement of the Vatican. Either way, the characters of Hermes matches the three figures mentioned above. Hermes holds the three parts of knowledge. Science, philosophy and alchemy. Christ is the philosopher's stone that transmutes mankind back to the former glory. We were corrupted in Genesis chapter 6 by divine beings.

The overall goal for us as creations of God is to rule with Christ in the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is the universe.

Deuteronomy 4:19

And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars--all the heavenly array--do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven.

Ephesians chapters 1-3 reveal the mystery of God's purpose for man.

In answer to your question. This is what God has done through Israel. We derive the most benefit from this from 1948 to today. Israel became a nation as a buildup to Daniel's 70th week of prophecy. 1948 is the key date in all of our previous history.



reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

reply to post by SuperiorEd


OK then

I give up!!!

Ur either a complete nutjob or so far ahead of me intellectually Im not even the same species (Im leaning towards the nutjob side)
You didnt answer my question so in my book it means you dont have an answer or more likely the answer doesnt promote whatever religious drivel it is your pushing.

It was fun dude but trying to get a straight answer or anything coherent out of you or even just to get you to stay on topic is doing my head in.

Ill look through your posts later as you seem to have some info that I would find very interesting but for now.....
Im outty

I'm sorry you are having such trouble. The answer was provided. Hermes (Enoch). He is where we get science. You dismissed my answer because you didn't take time to research. Even Wikipedia makes the connection. Just do the research and we won't be so far apart intellectually. Just do a Google search for 'scientists Jewish.' Don't give up though. Take time to read my posts for all they are worth. Name calling is not the answer. Calling someone names amounts to bias.

Yes we have already established you have lots of modern examples but my question was what did they offer prior to that? I can name thousands of modern discoveries not made but Jews. can you name more than a handfull of Jewish contributors to science, philosophy, art etc prior to the 19th century

They gave us Science through Hermes (Enoch). Jasher chatper 3. Newton is another.

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

OK then

I give up!!!

Ur either a complete nutjob or so far ahead of me intellectually Im not even the same species (Im leaning towards the nutjob side)
You didnt answer my question so in my book it means you dont have an answer or more likely the answer doesnt promote whatever religious drivel it is your pushing.

It was fun dude but trying to get a straight answer or anything coherent out of you or even just to get you to stay on topic is doing my head in.

Ill look through your posts later as you seem to have some info that I would find very interesting but for now.....
Im outty

You asked about the hexagrams in Genesis 1:1. Better stated, you are asking how God can create reality. Genesis 1:1 and the hidden information within the numbers can best be described in symbol. This video will help, then read my larger description below. You will also need to know about collapsing wave function..



The imperfection in us is necessary. God is at rest. We are becoming as God is. If there is to be a we, then we can't be God or there is (not are) two perfections at once. That is a perfect image and makes God two. God is one. For Him to Create us, he starts with a point. That's Him, the infinity of possibility at rest. This is just a simple analogy, so hold on. Matter is created from the second point, forming a line. Move that line now and you get a plane. The plane is created one slice at a time as it moves. Now create cube, expanding from all sides of the plane and you have slices again in three dimensions. From these three dimensions, we get form of all types. Now move that form and you get a slice of time. The form moves by possibility, just as the form was created from possibility. Although we are connected to God as the first separate point, our point had to be less than Him to be different. Think of all of this happening at one time by the process of light and wave. Particle and wave duality is what makes up light. Each particle has an associated wave. A galaxy is a toilet that flushes backwards at first, then rolls back on itself creating form by streaming data as it drains back to the source. As above, so below. One side of the universe, through an opening between, then back again. Zero point of infinity in the middle.

Now you get deeper into the process. The particle and wave is streaming data that works from the first dimension out through all the dimensions. As it produces form in the simple process above, we get layers of structure in a fractal. Again, this is simplified as a symbol. If there were second dimensional creatures, they see the second dimensional plane unfold a slice at a comparative time. The third dimension sees the slices of the fourth dimension of movement. Movement is the key. To create form, there must be movement in counter-motion to the first fixed dimension in a vortex. The spin we see display in the golden ratio and in DNA is evidence of the double helix pattern used by the wave to form matter. You only see a slice of everything that exists. There is another half. Google 'tree of life' and then look at the tree and the roots below. It all starts below and then streams up to infinity in forms that come from infinite possibility by collapsing wave function (best analogy we have). All of this arises from the other side where all possibility and infinity is at rest, in all states possible at once. We are merely a reflection of that in parts. We define this as imperfection. On the other side, we are a complete sculpture. Our consciousness merely rides the wave of possibility. It's always now.

But wait, there's more. Entropy heads to decay and disorder. Consciousness, which is directly connected to the original state of infinity at rest, is able to move back against the flow of imperfection to realize this movement back as a journey. The laws that govern the process are set to react when you act, keeping you on a path of movement against death and decay, while the body is used up along the way. This is what we see as punishment. Reward is what we see when we achieve back-flow. Providence is what we call chance. This is the designer from the state of rest acting through the state of imperfect possibility. God, the governor of it all. Love, the state of rest. Hope, the movement back to Love.

Read 1 Corinthians 13. Read Genesis 1 (Light). Read John 1 (Wave). Read the Bible for all it's worth.

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

I checked out the link RE hexagrams and gotta be honest dude it seemed like nonsense to me, thats not to say that it is just that I didnt understand it. It would be great if you could perhaps summarize for me what it all means.

edit on 24-4-2011 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)

reply to post by SuperiorEd


A couple things first

Even Wikipedia makes the connection

Considering wikipedia is updated by the public and no real scientific or peer review process is used I dont know that I would be using it to champion my cause or even refering to it as a reliable source. Even on Wiki it doesnt say he was Jewish it actually says moses MAY have gotten knowledge from him. It actually clearly states he was thought to be Egyptian and there is even doubt he was a real person. (Im getting that from the article you directed me to)

Just do the research and we won't be so far apart intellectually. Just do a Google search for 'scientists Jewish.

I did the search and I actually came to the opposite conclusion that you did. In a history that spans 6000+ yrs they according to the list I found have only managed to produce 433 names of note and this list included philosophers!!! 433 over 6000 yrs, not that impressive or at least not in anyway remarkable.
African Americans in only 200 yrs have 37 SCIENTISTS worthy of note, no padding out the numbers with philosophers necessary to make em look good. That figure according to your logic makes them twice as loved by god or twice as superior or whatever it is you were saying jews were.


Theres alot of info to digest in your posts and videos so Ill save it till tomorrow, I apologise for the name calling but I got frustrated when I couldnt get a simple answer to a simple question. Now you have explained that its difficult to give a simple answer Ill try and sort through it and Ill get back to you.

Thanks for all the research and links I really appreciate it

P.s This is why I joined ATS, for the mental stimulation, to be challenged and to learn new things. I really appreciate your time dude

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
Of course there are others who are not Jewish. But an abnormal amount of major discoveries have come from the Jewish people. The statistics back me up. Look at these lists. Take their discoveries away and we would not be where we are. This is true for anyone who has made a discovery, but the Jewish people are above the average. Way above. LINK LINK

Here is a list for the area of Chemistry alone LINK.

Adolph von Baeyer #,1 (1905)
Henri Moissan #,2 (1906)
Otto Wallach # (1910)
Richard Willstätter # (1915)
Fritz Haber # (1918)
George de Hevesy # (1943)
Melvin Calvin # (1961)
Max Perutz # (1962)
Christian Anfinsen 3 (1972)
William Stein # (1972)
Ilya Prigogine 4 (1977)
Herbert Brown # (1979)
Paul Berg # (1980)
Walter Gilbert # (1980)
Roald Hoffmann # (1981)
Sir Aaron Klug # (1982)
Herbert Hauptman 5 (1985)
Jerome Karle 6 (1985)
John Polanyi 7 (1986)
Sidney Altman # (1989)
Rudolph Marcus # (1992)
George Olah 8 (1994)
Sir Harold Kroto 9 (1996)
Walter Kohn 10 (1998)
Alan Heeger 11 (2000)
Aaron Ciechanover 12 (2004)
Avram Hershko 13 (2004)
Irwin Rose 14 (2004)
Roger Kornberg 15 (2006)
Martin Chalfie 16 (2008)
Ada Yonath 17 (2009)
Others 18

And then there is THIS.

reply to post by Bspiracy

 

edit on 24-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

which means nothing without the list of christian chemists, muslim chemists, etc etc.
it's called compare and contrast.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Just an idea

Before I found this thread I asked if anyone out there wanted to have a go in the debate forum.
Since this is a topic were both interested in would you be keen to battle it out there?

I dont think either of us is gonna change the other persons mind but it could be fun and we can see what other people think of the ideas we put forward.

whacha say?

To the OP,

Initially didnt think much of the thread but since then I have found it to be the most stimulating I have come across here so far.

Cheers dude

S&F for you

"P.s This is why I joined ATS, for the mental stimulation, to be challenged and to learn new things. I really appreciate your time dude."

Me too. I have been at this for 20 years. When the internet came around, I was all over it to learn. In 1996 I started this process of question and answer with people. Along the way, many thousands of pages of reading later, and I have a thread of knowledge that emerges from the pages of antiquity. I rejected the Bible outright after being a Christian since youth. Then, after asking for the answers, God provided. I have since come to realize that all my searching has placed me back where I started. The Bible is it. My ambition now is to save others time. Time is running out. My blog is here. If you want pain spoken truth, my blog is a reflection of my searching for the last part of two years. This is where God has spoken the clearest to me. The more I remove the bias, the more he rushes in with that still small voice. LINK. Good luck with your journey my friend. Faith, Hope and Love is the end of the search. 1 Corinthians 13

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

A couple things first

Even Wikipedia makes the connection

Considering wikipedia is updated by the public and no real scientific or peer review process is used I dont know that I would be using it to champion my cause or even refering to it as a reliable source. Even on Wiki it doesnt say he was Jewish it actually says moses MAY have gotten knowledge from him. It actually clearly states he was thought to be Egyptian and there is even doubt he was a real person. (Im getting that from the article you directed me to)

Just do the research and we won't be so far apart intellectually. Just do a Google search for 'scientists Jewish.

I did the search and I actually came to the opposite conclusion that you did. In a history that spans 6000+ yrs they according to the list I found have only managed to produce 433 names of note and this list included philosophers!!! 433 over 6000 yrs, not that impressive or at least not in anyway remarkable.
African Americans in only 200 yrs have 37 SCIENTISTS worthy of note, no padding out the numbers with philosophers necessary to make em look good. That figure according to your logic makes them twice as loved by god or twice as superior or whatever it is you were saying jews were.


Theres alot of info to digest in your posts and videos so Ill save it till tomorrow, I apologise for the name calling but I got frustrated when I couldnt get a simple answer to a simple question. Now you have explained that its difficult to give a simple answer Ill try and sort through it and Ill get back to you.

Thanks for all the research and links I really appreciate it

P.s This is why I joined ATS, for the mental stimulation, to be challenged and to learn new things. I really appreciate your time dude

I would love to. One rule. Speak to the subject and do not step on the object. Sounds fun and informative. Spell the topic out if you don't mind.

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Just an idea

Before I found this thread I asked if anyone out there wanted to have a go in the debate forum.
Since this is a topic were both interested in would you be keen to battle it out there?

I dont think either of us is gonna change the other persons mind but it could be fun and we can see what other people think of the ideas we put forward.

whacha say?

I couldn't agree more. But then again, I provided my list and the claim. To refute this, you need to do the comparison. I already know the answer.

Originally posted by RicoMarston

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Roger Kornberg 15 (2006)
Martin Chalfie 16 (2008)
Ada Yonath 17 (2009)
Others 18

And then there is THIS.

reply to post by Bspiracy

 

edit on 24-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

which means nothing without the list of christian chemists, muslim chemists, etc etc.
it's called compare and contrast.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Interesting source from the bible on a thread talking about Zion and Zionism: Luke. The New Testament and one of the Gospels to boot. I will assume you were talking about something else other than the tenants of the Old Testament.

God's fingerprint is on both the OT and NT. They are the same. God said Israel would be blinded until the Gentiles were grafted into the Olive tree. The parable of the sower talks about reaping and sowing. This is the best analogy to use in the context of what I was replying to.

The question asked:

So...what Descartes was saying was that we can only define reality within our human limitations of reality, thus not really describing reality?...makes sense.

I stated that we learn from the toil of working the earth. This is OT from Genesis 3. The parable of the sower is reaping the fruit of our choice to get our education from toil instead of walking with God. The question posed suggested that we are limited to no answer. I think the answer is in the Bible. Then again, what is reality apart from us here? I say all possibility at rest. Love is at rest.

Originally posted by ABNARTY
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Interesting source from the bible on a thread talking about Zion and Zionism: Luke. The New Testament and one of the Gospels to boot. I will assume you were talking about something else other than the tenants of the Old Testament.