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I don’t mean to be a party pooper, but lay folk like us are not really entitled to dissenting opinions in science. We can hold them, of course, but it’s a bit like a lifetime vegetarian holding an opinion about the tastiest way to cook steak.
Originally posted by Astyanax
Besides, if your information about any scientific theory or issue comes from the popular media (mainstream or underground, makes no difference) it is almost certain to be wrong: misunderstood, misreported or slanted.
Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by Timing
I don't think confusing the scientific definition of the word 'theory' with the layman definition is helping your case.
I'll make it real simple and in order to get this thread back on topic.
The Higgs-Boson must be discovered in order to validate the standard model of physics. Period, point, paragraph.
People trying to pass the Theory of Reality off as fact should not be listened too because the Higgs is nothing more than a speculation to explain why elements have its mass.
It doesn't take a scientist to understand this because the scientist currently looking for the Higgs have come out and said this themselves.
x(x-y): What will this mean to modern physics? Will the standard model be nearly completely wrong...
Farsight: No. Read A Zeptospace Odyssey: A Journey into the Physics of the LHC by Gian Francesco Giudice. There's a search-inside on Amazon, and if you search on Higgs sector you can read pages 173 through 175. He starts by saying
Quote:
The most inappropriate name ever given to the Higgs boson is "The God particle". The name gives the impression that the Higgs boson is the central particle of the Standard Model, governing its structure. But this is very far from the truth.
Farsight: On page 174 he says:
Quote:
Unlike the rest of the theory, the Higgs sector is rather arbitrary, and its form is not dictated by any deep fundamental principle. For this reason its structure looks frighteningly ad-hoc.
farsight: He also says:
Quote:
It is sometimes said that the discovery of the Higgs boson will explain the mystery of the origin of mass. This statement requires a good deal of qualification.
farsight: He gives a good explanation, and finishes by saying something important:
Quote:
In summary, the Higgs mechanism accounts for about 1 per cent of the mass of ordinary matter, and for only 0.2 per cent of the mass of the universe. This is not nearly enough to justify the claim of explaining the origin of mass.
farsight: Giudice is a physicist at CERN with a hundred-plus papers to his name. But there's been an awful lot of hype about the Higgs. IMHO it's been bad for physics.
x(x-y): Quote:
...or will a few tweaks and discoveries mean that it can be correct?
farsight: It isn't so black and white. Basically you ditch the Higgs sector and keep the rest, using the symmetry aspect to replace the Higgs sector.
x(x-y): Quote:
I've heard that the recent possible (3-sigma rated) particle discovery at the Tevatron Accelerator could possibly mean the Higgs is made irrelevant- and that it could possibly support a theory called "Quantum Technicolour" (or something similar to that name).
farsight:There's a lot of hype around.
All you have to do is type in a google search 'What if the Higgs-Boson Doesn't Exist".
I will put the following in external source quotes and label who said what for easier understanding...
x(x-y): What will this mean to modern physics? Will the standard model be nearly completely wrong...
Farsight:No.
What we are witnessing in the media is one side of the story in a science battle of epic proportions. It seems as though we have the Higg's Side, which obviously has the most physicist in it's corner or an agenda, and then we have a bunch of other physicist that are just waiting to put forth their theories on how this place we call the universe works.
The problem is there are scientist that are feeding the media bad information.
Along with bad information being taught at the university level.
Everything is still just a theory nothing is fact, just as I was stating earlier in the thread.
Originally posted by Larryman
Apparently it was all a false alarm. Update areticle 04 May 2011:
"Elusive Higgs slips from sight again"
www.newscientist.com...
Originally posted by Timing
And... another false alarm.
I'm still holding to my opinion that they aren't going to find it. At least the LHC has a lot of multiple uses besides attempting to find this one particle. I'm looking forward to the other discoveries that these people will make. Most importantly the CLOUD experiment that is currently on going.