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US government wages sock puppet war against its own citizens

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posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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I have been saying since October 2009 that the tenor of ATS changed. It went from debates lead by knowledgeable skeptics to pronouncements and name calling by ignorant debunkers.

The alien forum is full of them. At first I tried marking them as foes but there were too many of them. I left ATS after 3 years of daily multiple visits. Reluctantly I came back cause there is still nothing even close in spite of the sock puppets.

To think I've been arguing with a computer makes me laugh. The good news is knowing. It will be easier to dismiss certain posts now and keep the thread on track. Thanks




posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I know exactly which one you were referring to and I have to tell you, that whole thing was absolutely frustrating. It seemed as though when actual information and understanding of the situation that was being discussed would come to light the entire force would backtrack to a previous disagreement and re-hash it as though they just uncovered new information. If you look at the quality of those posts they are poorly lacking any real information and pertinence to the topic yet they have many, many stars and were successful in clouding the truth of the matter.

I was patient with that type of behavior at first because seriously, I thought that there were some people who just couldn't grasp what was being discussed and digressed to something that they did know and understand. I thought that maybe more information and a peaceable approach would enlighten some and even help myself to better understand the entire thing. Then it kept happening as if on cue. You dare not mention the fact that their off topic posts seemed to be starred excessively almost immediately after their posting it because then it would be the same old name calling and cry baby stuff that they resort to relentlessly further muddying the actual conversation and making it about stars!

All of the classic propaganda techniques are used with them. I even tried to fight fire with fire and a witty poster pointed out that what I used as external content could be considered propaganda. I admitted it and didn't use such materials again but watched them continue to pummel any other intelligent posters with nonsense. When dealing with them I realized that they use vague information with no sources. The truth is very specific you understand and vagueness is indicative of a lie. So I always tried to see the entire picture they presented but it was always out of focus. Not sharp and clear but vague and there is a reason for it.

They always use the same talking points in their arguments and seem to use a script of some kind it seems to me. They always have more than one seemingly disturbed poster who interjects things like right on and your so funny man or this thread is pathetic why are you even trying to show them the truth. You will see an awful lot of misinformation tied in with seemingly neutral opinions. This makes you believe the poster in question does not have an agenda of some sort and makes you more pliable to their way of believing an event or topic. The ever present ad-hominem attacks by them are obvious. In Proto's case they use this against him in almost every one of their posts.

Their discussion leaders emerge and orchestrate the debate and tend to conform others to their opinions. The result being unwitting allies who defend the skewed point of view so that they maintain a certain level of credibility and a falsified feeling of prestige within their imaginary brigade. The assimilated then play their role within their accumulated forces and find themselves defending ambiguous and exaggerated emotionally driven materials that leave no room for rational thought processes.

It is a sad state of affairs and the battle fronts are becoming more and more heated.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by zarp3333
 


I think that's the whole key to being happy here on ATS and that's just knowing you honestly imparted what you know, and honestly considered what other's shared.

Not everyone is going to share the same standards of excellence and while some like yourself will aspire to the highest common denominator, many will sadly choose to aspire to the lowest.

About the only way from keeping them from winning and dragging everyone down to that level is to just keep posting.

Thanks for joining in!




posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by Section31
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 

If you think about your main topic, you (a complete stranger) are telling everyone that government sock puppets exist. Since I personally do not know or trust anyone online, why should I not consider you as just another sock puppet? We have a vast diversity of individuals who visit this site (many anti-American), and they come from every corner of the globe. Even though you are 'claiming' to be from the United States, we have no way of knowing if you are telling the truth. How hard is it for someone to go onto Bing.com, do some research about a region, and then pose as if they came from that place of origin?

BBC: Alaska cop found to be illegal immigrant: prosecutors

*shrugs*

What is to stop other country's citizens from posing as another country's citizen (online), and then turn around to plant fake news to cause descent in another country?

*shrugs*

From my personal perspective, you are a complete stranger (possible foreign sock puppet) posting anti-American news. Even though you may just be from the United States, who is to say you are not a criminal? Anarchist? Car thief? Who knows?

"Trust No One"

edit on 23-4-2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)


Once again reading and listening comprehension can be your friend.

The News Station in New Orleans having investigated this incident is saying sock puppets exist.

So lets not make it all about me.

Intercepted emails from HB Gary obtained through hacking their web site by annonymous state clearly that the company making some of this software says they exist.

You can if you want suffer from what Cass Sunstein the Information Czar of Obama's White House refers to as crippled epistemology. The reliance on too few sources or incorrect sources for news.

Your argument is basically, if I chose to be confused, and stick my head in the sand, and in the pitch black declare there never was and is no sun, that anyone who says there is a sun should be held suspect.

Do you really want to go with an argument that's based on all kinds of omissions rediculous hypotheticals and denial?

You can, but I don't see how it would serve you!

Thanks.
edit on 23/4/11 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 

Who is to say the media is not lying?

What type of agenda do they have?

How can you trust a biased media source?

What is your personal agenda?
edit on 23-4-2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I did watch the video, maybe I didnt correctly reply to get my view across....what I was saying was that anyone with the skill can make the IP address match the CORP Employees computers......but they were really from somewhere else.....meaning it really didnt come from the office...........I could be in an office right now, and say my husband wanted it to look like me posting something but it was really him. He was able to hack the IP addresses to make it look like me.........THAT CAN BE DONE! It would be hard to prove of course that the Corp of Engineers didnt really do since the IP addresses matched......Hopefully that was better understood....

But in all honesty my opinion is that it was truly them....I was just trying to show that govt IP addresses can be hacked.......thats all



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by jackflap
 


A brilliant assessment of how some of these gangs operate, while they might be like minded people, they are sure far from honest and sincere people.

No amount of truth or patience overcomes the way such posters cling to ignorance, and when it becomes irrefutable in nature, they simply pretend like they never even read it and just continue on.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by jackflap
 

No amount of truth or patience overcomes the way such posters cling to ignorance, and when it becomes irrefutable in nature, they simply pretend like they never even read it and just continue on.

Ignorance comes from believing in everything you see, hear, or read.

When it comes to these types of subjects, questioning the motives of everyone (media, you, etc...) involved is being responsible.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by Section31
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler





Who is to say the media is not lying?


Anyone who wants too!




What type of agenda do they have?


Who is they?




How can you trust a biased media source?


Define trust, as in what regard are you trusting them.




What is your personal agenda?


To take over the entire planet, exterminate all the other men, and all the women I consider to be unnatractive and to set myself up as a living god in a nude society!


edit on 23/4/11 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by Section31
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 

If you think about your main topic, you (a complete stranger) are telling everyone that government sock puppets exist. Since I personally do not know or trust anyone online, why should I not consider you as just another sock puppet? We have a vast diversity of individuals who visit this site (many anti-American), and they come from every corner of the globe. Even though you are 'claiming' to be from the United States, we have no way of knowing if you are telling the truth. How hard is it for someone to go onto Bing.com, do some research about a region, and then pose as if they came from that place of origin?

BBC: Alaska cop found to be illegal immigrant: prosecutors

*shrugs*

What is to stop other country's citizens from posing as another country's citizen (online), and then turn around to plant fake news to cause descent in another country?

*shrugs*

From my personal perspective, you are a complete stranger (possible foreign sock puppet) posting anti-American news. Even though you may just be from the United States, who is to say you are not a criminal? Anarchist? Car thief? Who knows?

"Trust No One"

edit on 23-4-2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)



I too would always question such things.

but perhaps you need to read some of Proto's post and threads ... it's all in His profile.

if this is all from a software sock puppet, they must be using one hell-of-a thesaurus !!!

as they say "You NEVER Know" !!

edit on 23-4-2011 by xuenchen because: xxc



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Software sock puppets and human sock puppets are the same. They are both used for a specific agenda. Government, activists, anarchists, etc...

People trust others online too much.
edit on 23-4-2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by Section31
reply to post by xuenchen
 


Software sock puppets and human sock puppets are the same. They are both used for a specific agenda. Government, activists, anarchists, etc...

People trust others online too much.
edit on 23-4-2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)


Actually no they aren't the same, one has the ability to breed itself to appear many times more, and one doesn't.

I have no problem with you as a poster having an 'agenda'.

One of the challenges on ATS is people with a real conclusion on a matter are often considered by their critics to be biased.

In other words if you have any kind of hard and fast belief or opinion then it must be a bias.

I don't actually care if you as one human individual has a bias, or an agenda, because in reality you are freely entitled to have both.

What I do take exception to is one person creating many voices, through the use of software or multiple accounts and gaming the system to create an artifical majority for that expressed purpose.

Democracy is all about everyone having an opinion and voicing it.

Respecting their right to do that as a singular entity honestly stating their opinion even if it's a biased or agenda driven one is what democracy is all about.

Questioning things to find answers is smart. Questioning things just to question things while insisting others are biased or agenda driven for drawing a conclusion is really just and agenda to sew the seeds of confusion.

Once again if it's just one honest person who believes in mayhem as a sport or as a debate tactic I have no problem with that either.

That's all part of democracy.

Yet once again when that poster replicates himself to create an illusion that he is many people by using the anonymity of the internet and deciet to do that, then I have a problem with that.

One person one vote, one voice.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Actually no they aren't the same, one has the ability to breed itself to appear many times more, and one doesn't.

Wrong. Absolutely wrong. If there is one activist sock puppet, there is another one waiting in the background. Both software and human drones can multiply by the hundreds. Have you ever heard of unions? Anonymous?

Union members are paid sock puppets.
Anonymous is also breeding members.
edit on 23-4-2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Just to add something else I've noticed. Their message they attempt to convey is sometimes bolstered by posters who claim to be coming from within the target populations themselves. They asses the over all feeling on the ground and associate it with what everybody really desires. Traps are always hidden to conceal their lethality and promote a feeling of well being before being sprung on the intended victim.

The science of war leads populations into dictatorship and that is a truth. This is the part of the game where we are lulled into a sense of security by the benevolence and perceived wisdom of the mightier war machine. We edge closer to its wrath and display how well we are within its arms of security and defend its maniacal depopulation script. It knows what its doing and we do well to defend its brutality and support its causes. How wise it is. The jaws of its trap tremble ever so lightly and eagerly await to be set free from their restraint. Prepared to consume everything, even those who unwittingly disguised it in our midst and pledged allegiance to it.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 

The science of war leads populations into dictatorship and that is a truth. This is the part of the game where we are lulled into a sense of security by the benevolence and perceived wisdom of the mightier war machine.

War leads populations into dictatorships? Really? So, what was the Revolutionary war about? Enslavement of those who seek freedom?

How about World War I and World War II? Did the United States go to war with dictatorships, so that they can become a dictatorship?

edit on 23-4-2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by Section31
 



War leads populations into dictatorships?


The science of war. The idea that war will lead us to our desired goals. Perpetuating and preemptively convincing populations that wars are necessary to bring about a common desire for peace. As the war machine progresses and we see no end in sight we can only lean back upon its brutality to save us from the victims of its terror. We just dig deeper and deeper until we cannot see the sunlight anymore. The science of war in which we are engaged in now.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by Section31

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Actually no they aren't the same, one has the ability to breed itself to appear many times more, and one doesn't.

Wrong. Absolutely wrong. If there is one activist sock puppet, there is another one waiting in the background. Both software and human drones can multiply by the hundreds. Have you ever heard of unions? Anonymous?

Union members are paid sock puppets.
Anonymous is also breeding members.
edit on 23-4-2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)


Honestly all you are pretty much doing is exposing your own agendas, anti-union, anti-anarchists, anti-people who question the government.

However as I have said you are entitled to your own opinions, if you want to post in this fashion to promote some agenda of your own, really there isn't much I can do about that, except grin and bear.

However your point is a pretty simple one, principly not to trust anyone or anything except in this case you, when proclaiming people wrong and who you ought to specifically distrust.

I have a funny feeling you will of course understand why I don't share your opinions.

We have been talking about forum gangs which are the equivalent in some ways but not all ways to human sock puppets.

Sometimes they are paid posters, sometimes they are agenda driven.

However where your argument breaks down, is you first start out by questioning if sock puppets even exist, only to launch into multiple tirades of how they exist and who you suspect is really using them.

This is ATS my friend, your out of your depth with circular logic like that.

Thanks.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by Section31
 



War leads populations into dictatorships?


The science of war. The idea that war will lead us to our desired goals. Perpetuating and preemptively convincing populations that wars are necessary to bring about a common desire for peace. As the war machine progresses and we see no end in sight we can only lean back upon its brutality to save us from the victims of its terror. We just dig deeper and deeper until we cannot see the sunlight anymore. The science of war in which we are engaged in now.

Without going too far off topic, how should a peaceful civilization respond to a war based civilization?

???



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Honestly all you are pretty much doing is exposing your own agendas, anti-union, anti-anarchists, anti-people who question the government.

Exposing my own agenda? Yes. I am exposing my personal belief systems, but they are not the ones you have listed. Funny thing about this is that 'I admit' in having a specific motivation.

You haven't.

You expressed a theory, but you haven't made your overall motives clear.

Who do you work for?
edit on 23-4-2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by Section31
 


Here at ATS we try to stay on subject and deal with the subject matter not the poster.

So not only am I not inclined to answer questions regarding my person most especially when they are posed in the form of off topic thinly veiled personal attacks, that type of behavior is pretty much frowned on by the site.

So unless you are out to prove an example of what an off topic poster conducting ad-hominem attacks to distrupt or derail a thread behaves like, I think you really just ought to focus on the subject of the thread.

Thanks.


edit on 23/4/11 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



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