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Atheism starts with an illogical premise

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posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by iLoGiCViZiOnS
reply to post by Annee
 


Ah Ha so you do believe in something.......


Did you miss the post where I said I believe in something else?

Atheist means one thing and one thing only. None belief in a Deity.

Beyond that each individual Atheist - - determines "what else". Some do not believe in something else - - some do.




posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by iLoGiCViZiOnS
reply to post by Annee
 


ABSOLUTLY! Nothing gets created without a "Creator" Or "Originator" If you will. Yes we are creators as well....we make babies we build things we create things.......but who or what started it? Oh come one people you really thing we just evolved all of this from the elements? Have you seen any such miracle take place EVER?

Those of you who do not believe in a "Creator" thats fine but perhaps someday you will SEE for yourself!


Some mindsets become fundamentalistic, because they must have 'absolutes' to lean on to take away the terrible incertainties bothering them.

And then other fundamentalists claim, that atheists suffer from incertainty and use atheism the same way, and by criticising theist incertainty, they take away their own incertainty.

And now I come along and postulate, that the fundamentalists accusing atheists accusing fundamentalists are also doing this because of uncertainty. Though a very sophisticated one.

All this in response to your zeal in insisting on a non-regressive primal cause. Why is that so important, and why can't you a/ just accept things as they are, or b/ if you have talent for it, start where you are and use the available information to work your way towards an answer, instead of constructing one on fabulations.

Quote: ["Oh come one people you really thing we just evolved all of this from the elements?"]

What 'elements'? And whatever answer you come up with to this question, why can't things evolve from 'elements'.

Quote: ["Those of you who do not believe in a "Creator" thats fine but perhaps someday you will SEE for yourself!"]

And perhaps we won't see anything or perhaps we'll see something very different from anything resembling a creator/'god'. Are you trying to support your arguments by making something we will eventually and possibly see a premature 'proof' of you being right now?



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 10:05 PM
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a magic dude in the sky did not creat everything, youre a #ing idiot for believing that
why does there have to be a creator? your viewpoint is limited and programmed

humans are idiots, followers, i hope we all #ing die soon

do the world a favour, kill yourself, we dont need children growing up like this anymore



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by bogomil
 


I love Science but it can only take us so far.......what we are missing is Spirituality, and when I say that I don't want you to think that I mean the same kind of Spirituality as Religions would have you believe......although I do feel that most religions tap into it by mistake mostly.

I think that the Creator wanted us to enjoy our life on earth and wanted us to become more connected to it and realize through those connections that we are in fact connected to everything in the universe. I myself do not consider myself to be that enlightened but I do feel that I have perhaps accidentally crossed its boundaries at times. The mind is a wonderous place!

Ever hear of that little saying "Divide and Conquer"? Now think about those subjects and all the spaces between that we allow to divide us...........Wars, Entertainment, Philosophies, THIS!

I don't think that arguing over this subject is going to get us anywhere honestly. You are entitled to your beliefs just as I am entitled to mine. No matter how ridiculous you feel mine are or I feel yours are we still have to live here and we should all try to find a common bond so as not to be divided and not to be continued to be conquered through those divisions. IMHO of course!



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 11:19 PM
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you have to clap harder childeren Christians if you want to save tinkerbell Jesus



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by racasan
you have to clap harder childeren Christians if you want to save tinkerbell Jesus


You have one too many E's in children. Otherwise pretty clever unless you know anything about Tinkerbell. One demonic little witch in a dragonfly suit.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by racasan
you have to clap harder childeren Christians if you want to save tinkerbell Jesus


You have one too many E's in children. Otherwise pretty clever

Ah thanks, yes I have dislex dysle dusliks - I’m very bad at spelling



unless you know anything about Tinkerbell. One demonic little witch in a dragonfly suit.


Don’t hate on tinkerbell



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by Matrix Rising

In order for Atheist to say they have a lack of belief in God they implicitly acknowledge God's existence. Your lack of belief in God has to be predicated on his existence or it's just illogical.


Wrong! When an atheist expresses a lack of belief, they are acknowledging that others (who also happen to be the majority) believe in God, not the existence of God. What the OP seems to be suggesting is that any one that admits to not believing in something is implicitly acknowledging its existance. So, if a Christian admits to a non-belief in evolution by calling them self a Creationist, they are at the same time acknowledging that evolution does exist? If we fail to also label ourselves as non-believers of Santa Clause, it is because it is commonly accepted, even by Christians, that Santa Clause does not exist.

Based on what the OP is saying, it seems that I must select “none-of-the-above” when someone asks me about my religious beliefs, if I don’t want to admit to God’s existance. But, then it might also be claimed that “above” is an acknowledgement of the existance of heaven.

I am trying very hard to understand logic in the OP’s assertion, but I just don’t see it. I don’t believe in God because I have never seen God, heard God, or seen any evidence that proves God’s existance. How is this in any way illogical?

It seems to me that the OP is simply trying to find a polite way to call Atheists stupid.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 08:04 AM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


It's when God is defined that an Atheist becomes doubtful.

I'm an agnostic atheist myself. There is no evidence to even form a theory such as a creator "being" so i suspend judgement and belief until i have information.

I'm a gnostic atheist when it's regarding religion, because as we have no evidence, someone is jumping to conclusions, and describing God without knowing what God is.

God is hard to define, perhaps God is what man doesn't understand - whether it be disaease, volcanoes, or morality and ethics or stars, or the overall "force" of nature/reality.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


It's when God is defined that an Atheist becomes doubtful.


I was raised/assimilated Christian. I know the "God thing". I stepped outside the circle and left the belief because I don't believe it.

I don't have doubts.

edit on 23-4-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Apologies - i didn't mean to speak on behalf of all individual atheists.

I was merely pointing out that there are Atheists with contrasting reasons or beliefs depending on how God is defined. Or at least pointing out my own reasoning.

As there is no evidence for an omnipotent being interfering in human affairs, i am gnostic. I believe many descriptions of God, especially within religion to be easilly falsified logically.

In regards to a creator being or "GOD" - It's an unfalsifiable, i will remain agnostic until someone claims they know the truth without having evidence for it. That's when someone is conjuring, like a fortule teller or a medium (cold reading is essense)

I was raised Christian (Church of England) here in the U.K - I've never believed in it, and my family have always been fine with that.
edit on 23/4/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)

edit on 23/4/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Annee
 


Apologies - i didn't mean to speak on behalf of all individual atheists.

I was merely pointing out that there are Atheists with contrasting reasons or beliefs depending on how God is defined. Or at least pointing out my own reasoning.

As there is no evidence for an omnipotent being interfering in human affairs, i am gnostic. I believe many descriptions of God, especially within religion to be easilly falsified logically.



Yeah - I know you didn't mean to speak for individuals - - - so I edited my post.

I would consider myself Agnostic/Atheist - - - because I am not so arrogant to claim I know for a fact there is no God.

I too was never able to accept the God thing - - - even as a child. I'm one who did search for God in trying many beliefs over 50+ years. It is only recently I acknowledged to myself I do not believe and never really have.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by freedish
reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


A fool hath said in his heart, `God is not;'

psalm 14



I really hate it when someone uses bible quotes in these discussions.

They have zero meaning to the discussion.

They only have meaning when someone believes in them.



OP said:
"In order for Atheist to say they have a lack of belief in God they implicitly acknowledge God's existence. Your lack of belief in God has to be predicated on his existence or it's just illogical. "

The quote I picked is backing up OP point, that only a fool does not acknowledge God's existence.

The quote is relevant and has meaning, even if you don't believe the bible.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 11:45 PM
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I think the OP is having a hard time understanding that some people simply don’t see the world in the same way he does and so he’s forced to create this warped logic to account for that

So to prove that I for one don’t believe in his world view:
www.blasphemychallenge.com...


INSTRUCTIONS: You may damn yourself to Hell however you would like, but somewhere in your video you must say this phrase: "I deny the Holy Spirit." Why? Because, according to Mark 3:29 in the Holy Bible, "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." Jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he won't forgive you for denying the existence of the Holy Spirit. Ever


So according to Mark 3:29 - I deny the Holy Spirit


Religion first manufactures a fear, it then offer a solution to that fear – it’s the tactics of a conman, religion is nothing but a scam – and it’s a scam that more and more people are simply not falling for any more

I for one don’t believe in the bible or the bogeymen in it

edit on 23-4-2011 by racasan because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 06:41 AM
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reply to post by freedish
 


So I take it you are acknowledging the existence of unicorns, the spaghetti monster, Han Solo, and of course Santa...simply by lacking belief in them. And of course also Allah, Vishnu, and a ton of other gods. Makes total sense, suuuuuuuuuuuure



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 


Teapot (or fairy) agnostics - Gotta love 'em - I find it hard to believe that they would fall for the appeal to ignorance argument.

Should i assume that dildos are my shoes because i'm (currently) unable to test it?

The main problem seems to be defining God - I mean it's easy enough to define teapots, fairies and dildos.



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 12:57 PM
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1. God. Character in a book called "The Bible".
2. God. Ethereal Being whose likeness was the base for the character in Bible.

I do not believe the God character was based on any super-powerful entity with any basis in actuality. Just like I don't believe Harry Potter was based on any living wizard, and Frodo was based on any living Hobbits.



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by freedish
OP said:
"In order for Atheist to say they have a lack of belief in God they implicitly acknowledge God's existence. Your lack of belief in God has to be predicated on his existence or it's just illogical. "

The quote I picked is backing up OP point, that only a fool does not acknowledge God's existence.

The quote is relevant and has meaning, even if you don't believe the bible.


The bible is never relevant to Atheism.

No matter how you try to apply it.



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by freedish
OP said:
"In order for Atheist to say they have a lack of belief in God they implicitly acknowledge God's existence. Your lack of belief in God has to be predicated on his existence or it's just illogical. "

The quote I picked is backing up OP point, that only a fool does not acknowledge God's existence.

The quote is relevant and has meaning, even if you don't believe the bible.


The bible is never relevant to Atheism.

No matter how you try to apply it.


The bible is relevant to what OP said. Period.



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by freedish
 


So I take it you are acknowledging the existence of unicorns, the spaghetti monster, Han Solo, and of course Santa...simply by lacking belief in them. And of course also Allah, Vishnu, and a ton of other gods. Makes total sense, suuuuuuuuuuuure


No one above the age of 10 believes in unicorns, or spaghetti monsters.

But, I do believe in Allah Vishnue and all the other 'gods'. Hear me out though...
I don't believe they ARE God. But I believe those entities WANT to be God.
They are demons, who hate God, and want to be God themselves.



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