Atheism starts with an illogical premise

Originally posted by liejunkie01
Would you still believe in your god if you were never introduced to the ideology from a young age. By this I mean, you were taught by someone to think there is a god. What if this someone was never introduced to you?

This is an interesting question.

Most of the world is taught/assimilated from birth that God exists.

Few "step out of the circle" and ask themselves is there really a God. Many change their beliefs - - but still believe there is a God.

I am one who "stepped out of the circle" - - - and concluded - - it makes no sense at all.

reply to post by lerelfrancisforever


Actually there is a theory peddled within the scientific community that "GOD" is actually us, as in made up of us, each as individuals

Source: What the Bleep down the Rabbit Hole

Mentioned in the first 20 mins, not everyone would subscribe to this programmes presentation, but it blew me away

www.youtube.com...

How on earth is Atheism illogical? We choose not to take ancient mythology as fact nor do we choose to live our lives by the guidelines of ancient mythology.

We believe in reality, not mythical man made Gods or Goddesses. Thanks and g'day.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by iLoGiCViZiOnS
reply to post by Matrix Rising

 

Atheism is based on a ridiculous notion that "Something" can be created by "Nothing".

No, it isn't.

It's based on the non-acceptance of the claim of others that god(s) exist.

Okay lets go with that.......If you weren't created by a "Creator" then you were not created and just happen to form out of "Nothing" which is what I just said.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


Great more creationist threads.

It's not a lack of faith because there is no faith. You might think it's illogical, because you might believe in it's existence, to th atheist you are illogical, to you the atheist is illogical.

There is no god, I believe in the IDEA of god, which means god didn't make us, we made god. Limited to our imagination, everyone believes god can't have more then one name, so different groups fight over the idea and the name.

This thread isn't even a worthy thread, your here to simply bash atheists because they do not believe in your god. Even believeing in a god, is illogical. A massive sapient being, loves you no matter what, but wants you to suffer?

This is a god? Sounds more like the devil, which goes to show, they are the same being, because they originated from the same place, human imagination.

So to acknowledge your imagination as true and factual. Is illogical all on it's own, not only do you believe in things without proof, but you encourage it and judge others who do not believe without proof.

To me, believing in a god or not, doesn't matter because in the end it is the individuals choice, so for you to judge on those who do not share YOUR belief, says that because you are in your religious group, you may feel obliged to publicly judge and discriminate others, because they don't share the same "logic" as you.

Also religious deities are ruled by gods and devils, much like our own political system, and as religion goes, is based on our primitive wants and needs, what we secretly crave for, not suprising that religious groups were made out of an attempt to understand those feelings.

So to even assume without question there is a god, is illogical. You cannot know, without actually knowing, to assume otherwise is ignorance.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


Lack is a word you're choosing to use, which implies that something is missing. I think atheists have an absence of a belief in a deity or deities. I simply don't believe in God. Nothing lacking here.

reply to post by SeventhSeal


You don't have to believe in ancient mythology to believe in God. You just have to look around you and see things deeper then one normally does. It's balance, its order, its precision. That is the veil! Some will never see and I accept this but its important to me to offer different angles towards on it.

Originally posted by iLoGiCViZiOnS
Okay lets go with that.......If you weren't created by a "Creator" then you were not created and just happen to form out of "Nothing" which is what I just said.

Ummm.. no, actually I have parents. So do you. That's where we came from.

"Creators" and "Nothing" are not part of the equation.

Originally posted by iLoGiCViZiOnS

Okay lets go with that.......If you weren't created by a "Creator" then you were not created and just happen to form out of "Nothing" which is what I just said.

You have to have a God - - - for anything to create or be created?

No you don't.

Originally posted by Jebbaroo
reply to post by Matrix Rising

 

Lack is a word you're choosing to use, which implies that something is missing. I think atheists have an absence of a belief in a deity or deities. I simply don't believe in God. Nothing lacking here.

Exactly!

A none belief. Or absence of belief.

Not Lack of belief.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by iLoGiCViZiOnS

Okay lets go with that.......If you weren't created by a "Creator" then you were not created and just happen to form out of "Nothing" which is what I just said.

You have to have a God - - - for anything to create or be created?

No you don't.

On the suggestion of humans being created by some deity....

If the human body was designed, it stands out as one of the poorest designs imaginable. A first-year engineer student could do a better job. Just sayin'....

This post seems to be an attempt to "shore up" his own belief system.
The illogical thing is the brainwashing small children have to undergo by thier brainwashed parents that continue the sick cycle.
How many wars have been started by "Radical Athiests"?
The arguement is flawed. You see, the people yourself and society has labled are rejecting the existance of "YOUR" god. To someone who rejects the jewish god he/she is automaticaly labled as an athiest. The religious se life in 2 dimensions their way or the wrong way, this is illogical. Ever hear of spiritual athiests? By defiition your an athiest if you refuse to accept the myth of christianity. You can't hep yourself for being stuck in your illogical loop, your basing the outcome on the narrow view that someone has constructed for you.
It's not illogical for a god to create a being the could turn on him, fight him, take 1/3 of his loyal sevants(who all had no free will, so try and figure that one out) and at some point in the myth god gets control and does what????? Casts him to planet earth , giving him power over it....WITH HIS LOVED CREATION planed to be placed their as well????? was the universe not done? was this all an accident, did he # up. The myth is what I and everyone you label as an athiest ARE rejecting and that sir is logic.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


That is not atheism. Atheism is not a "lack of belief." It is a belief that God does not exist. An agnostic says he doesn't know one way or another, and a theist says he does believe God exists.

The atheist is making a proactive statement. He's not hedging his bets. He is saying he believes God does not exist, period. In that sense he is as much a believer as a theist, just on the opposite side.

If you actually study logic, as in Philosophy 101 or the equivalent, you will learn about this. It's somewhat ironic that your claim of atheism being illogical can be said about your post itself.

Originally posted by schuyler
He is saying he believes God does not exist, period. In that sense he is as much a believer as a theist, just on the opposite side.

NO.

I simply believe something else.

When people cannot comprehend the truth, they just start to make up things in order to ease themselves.

What I can see from the OP is that he is trying to say how Atheists are not Atheists at all but simply people off the right path which he believes is having faith in the entity "god".
However he does not or try's to not realise why the people don't believe in the same thing he does which is "god".

It's like trying to get a person who hates and realises the dangers of smoking to smoke by making him/her believe the reverse and that it would be "fun".
Im not saying there could not be a god or that there is a god. I am simply saying whilst trying to rubbish the others argument you are letting your self be "attacked" by others views.
Everyone should live how they want to live, not because they are conditioned to, not because others want them to but how they want to. To do something you don't necessarily have to know how to do it you just simply do it.
If you wish to believe in god then you are free to do so, if you wish to see how others think feel free to talk with them and do so. But do not talk to someone just to simply ignore their views but try to comprehend what they are talking about. Even a drunk old man has many things that can help you make the right choices.

reply to post by Watts


I couldn't resist the temptation to prematurely joining this thread (before I've read all of it), but already now I feel like making some comments. I'll catch up eventually.

You wrote:

["To accept that something as infinitely complex as the universe can suddenly appear for no reason,...]

Seen from the 'beginning' (at least the visible beginning), the universe wasn't that complex. 3 particle/wave manifestations, what's increasingly believed to be 3 forces associated with the 3 particle/wave manifestations and space/time. The complexity just 'grew' from this, as it would have done from all other such basically asymmetric duality-combinations.

Quote: ["Why don't we observe things randomly popping into existence now since by what is being implied, its totally possible?"]

Recently some zero-point physicists suggest, that this actually happens. Changing the macrocosmic one-time big-bang creation to a microcosmic continous creation. It doesn't change the point of regressive arguments though.

Quote: ["As I see it, 0+0 ≠ 1 and I see no way around that. An infinitely empty nothing should have remained that way."]

The only legitimate theist speculation on that can with some justification say, that 'intent' may be possible. But there are better ways to relate to that than abrahamic monotheism.

Quote: [""Since time began with the Big Bang, there really can be no 'before the Big Bang'."

How can you establish that though? Is that not like saying there's a limit to how high a number you can count? Maybe the "before" is completely beyond our comprehension ....."]

The double-slit experiment indicates a no-time (as we know time) level.

Quote: ["To even say, there was no "before the Big Bang" isn't that the establishment of a rule?"]

It's perfectly sensible. Time makes 'before' possible. No-time is something only religious speculators try to quantify.

Quote: [""Healing and behavior changes have explanations other than supernatural miracles."

Behavior changes, ok Ill accept that. A spinal connection suddenly repairing only AFTER prayer after extended paralysis without any sort of recent rehab work, I have to give that up to a higher power. I will try to track down examples of miracles because I do understand that I need to show tangible evidence of what I'm saying."]

I'm a reiki-healer with some weird success. I don't have to ascribe it to trans-mundane powers, as I actually can quantify part of the methodology (albeit in a terminology not acceptable to present hard-science requests).

reply to post by Matrix Rising

How can you have a lack of belief in an entity that you say doesn't exist?

Dude wise up, see if you can wrap your mind around this -

I am an atheist, I do not say a god doesn't, exist I merely say I do not believe a given god exists for lack of proof.

Although you haven't said whether you are of any given religious bent, your post is quite reminiscent of the retarded and childish christian way of thinking.

reply to post by Xen0m0rpH


A bit of topic but in the paper a few months ago there was a stry that claims the origanl person santa was based on ate magic mushrooms, drunk his own reimdeers urine to get high and terrorised those who lived near him lol

I've got one word for the all bible bashing members of ATS...

Dinosaurs.

It is a shame the OP hasn't been back since page 2, as by my last response to him I did understand what the OP was trying to say.

If the OP had used the word "irrational" instead of "illogical", and referred strictly to strong atheism where the existence of God is denied, then the point would have been made.

The atheist claim that God does not exist rests on lack of scientific evidence of the existence of God. However, as science itself cannot verify that science is the only method for investigating and knowing reality, and as God is generally agreed to be meta-physical in nature, it follows that the atheist claim has no rational or scientific basis.