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Atheism starts with an illogical premise

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posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 04:37 AM
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Ok, my last post may have been just a bit to syllable intensive for your limited mental capacity.

First,

People who believe in god = deranged. Usually when you believe in something that does not exist, they give you medication and put you in a comfortable room. Worse, many of these religious type communicate with their imaginary diety through prayer. Far worse. It's one thing to have an imaginary friend, quite another to start talking to it.

When they capitalize Him or Her, or Slut or whatever they refer to their allah or jesus as, they reveal themselves to be willfully ignorant of the facts. Rigid thinking.

Willfull ignorance != logic.

Logic = A particular system or codification of the principles of proof and inference.

PROOF loser.




posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 04:45 AM
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reply to post by Slaytanic
 


LOL
Read my edit to my previous post. Also, copy & pasting a definition of logic doesn't mean you understand what it is.



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 07:47 AM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


Note that in many cases "Atheist" is a label given by society to individuals who do not believe in religion/God, more than it is a name they use to self-identity with others of similar views.
edit on 22/4/2011 by Dark Ghost because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 08:39 AM
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It's just a game of semantics. If you say they believe God doesn't exist, they'll say they have a lack of belief. If you point out the problem with saying lack of belief they'll say they don't believe.



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 08:39 AM
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Terminology and understanding of the English language/vocabulary is where the OP is throwing his own log on his own fire.

If I say I do not believe in "god" than I am acknowledging that "god" exists? That's not what I'm implying when I say this. I am implying, actually, quite the opposite of that accusation. I am implying that "god" does not exist. If I said I don't worship "god" or something like that, maybe? (confused face) But I do not believe that by saying, "I do not believe in 'god'." that I am acknowledging the existence of the common crutch.

"does not exist" = does not exist
"do not believe in" = does not exist.

Potato.
edit on 22-4-2011 by jaysinn because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


You really need to take a course in logic sometime. I'm guessing you haven't passed through college yet...



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


What do you have to gain by attacking atheists?

Is it to boost your ego or somehow validate your belief in an invisible deity up in the sky?

I could start a thread claiming that Christianity, Islam, Judaism, et al, are all illogical too.


Those threads have already been done,many have already beat ya to it.



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 



When you say He doesn't exist and then say you have a lack of belief in this non existent entity is illogical.


No it isn’t.

Lack – noun – deficiency or absence

www.thefreedictionary.com...

If you believe something does not exist then by definition you have a lack of belief in that things existence. Therefore when an atheist says god does not exist he or she must lack a belief in god, it cannot be any other way.


It's just like saying you have a lack of belief in Tinkerbell or the Tooth Fairy.


Yes. Are you suggesting that you don’t lack a belief in Tinkerbell? Meaning you must have a belief in Tinkerbell? You believe in Tinkerbell.


English is a great language you should look into it sometime.



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 08:53 AM
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An agnostic myself, I have one question.

Why is it always the theists(particularly christians) who play off words or phrases to prove their beliefs.

"Lack of Belief" is a phrase no one uses. Most people say "I don't believe" or "There's no factual reason to believe". You're putting words into other peoples mouths. Then to say that they mean that they acknowledge god and still don't believe, is throwing other words in their mouth.

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When Theists say they "Have Faith", it's a logical fallacy. Do people say they have faith in gravity? What about that apples grow on trees? "I have faith in gravity", never. To say you have faith(Which all thiests base their beliefs off), they are openly admitting that their is no evidence towards gods existance. Faith is believing something that has no logical reasoning behind it.

You say you acknowledge theism as illogical and then choose to believe anyways, either out of stubbornness or wanting it to be true.


See? It's very easy to turn that circular logic around. Try something better.



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 

Your thread is what is completely illogical...



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by xxsomexpersonxx
"Lack of Belief" is a phrase no one uses.


You must have not been a part of many debates involving atheists. When backed into a corner they often redefine their philosophy into lack of belief to avoid the claim to having faith that there is no God.



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 09:31 AM
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"An Atheist will say they lack a belief in God or gods but this position doesn't make any sense."

I'm not an atheist, but you've lost your argument right here. An atheist doesn't have "lack of belief", they don't have any belief at all. Those "atheist" that have lack of belief are really just agnostic without knowing it.



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by 547000
 


I meant in general. As in, it's not every single atheist says. As the OP put it.

Feel free to go to the one, single point in my post you can disagree with, and ignore the rest. And that's still playing with words.



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 09:45 AM
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What do you mean playing with words? You clearly said no one does that but one simple google search proves you wrong. Your main point was that atheists don't have a "lack of belief" so the OP is completely invalidated, but you are wrong, many atheists very often do claim a "lack of belief" so the OP's point is not invalidated. Maybe you don't play a game of semantics as some atheists, but I don't think the OP has circular logic.
edit on 22-4-2011 by 547000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 09:52 AM
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OP you're just talking yourself in circles. the only way for something that does not exist to exist is when we imagine them. it does not make them real. i strongly believe there are entities and supernatural beings that are more powerful than your god to begin with floating around out there in space. logic says so. so your god is just an alien that has created us as its science project. deal with it. in no way is anything "divine", just benevolent. for all you know we could just be a highly advanced robotic race that lives in an ultra realistic cyber space. maybe thats why the aliens haven't contacted us. we have the same fear of our technology surpassing us.



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 09:53 AM
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So, I guess the OP must be using notes s/he took in some Introduction to Logic course.

Logic, the way it is studied in Philosophy, can seem counterintuitive and make a sane person want to scream.

Congratulations OP, you have made a useless point.



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 09:58 AM
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And for the love of God (seemed appropriate considering the thread content), everybody please stop posting dictionary definitions. It will do no good.

This whole thread is like trying to figure out whether or not we're in a simulation. It's pointless.



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by Matrix Rising
You don't have a lack of belief in Santa Claus or a lack of belief in the Tooth Fairy.


Yes I do.



In order for Atheist to say they have a lack of belief in God they implicitly acknowledge God's existence. Your lack of belief in God has to be predicated on his existence or it's just illogical.


So, if I say I DON'T believe in aliens, that means I DO believe in aliens?
Are you saying that those who DO believe in aliens and those who DON'T believe in aliens ... ALL believe in aliens? Is that your logic here?

You see, "aliens" is an idea, a theory. Some believe in this and some don't.

Sorry, you're going to have to explain your logic to me again...

Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus, Matrix? The reason I ask is that you acknowledged their existence in your OP, by explaining how people don't believe in them. If this whole 'not-believing-in-something-means-you-believe-in-it' idea gets going, we're going to have to be REALLY careful about what comes out of our mouths! Simply saying, "I don't believe in Purple Elephants" (which, by your logic means that they DO believe in Purple Elephants) could be VERY confusing.

.
edit on 4/22/2011 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
What do you mean playing with words? You clearly said no one does that but one simple google search proves you wrong. You main point was that atheists don't have a "lack of belief" so the OP is completely invalidated, but you are wrong, many atheists very often do claim a "lack of belief" so the OP's point is not invalidated.


I meant no one loosely. Surely that word phrase has been used, it's just not the most common. Taking that literally when it was clearly not is word play. Even after I said it wasn't literal, you still attack my wording.

My main point, is that the OP is pulling a massive strawman.

First, set up the strawman. All atheists say this.
Now a strawman on top of the strawman. All atheists saying this mean this.

Now, all athiests who claim "lack of belief" in god, while acknowledging him as a real entity, are being illogical.
Therefore, all atheism is illogical. I built up my oddly specific and unlikely strawman. I said he was illogical, therefore the original idea(which I didn't do anything to disprove) is illogical as well.

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You proved that what I said was false. Ignoring that you proved a different interpretation of what I said was false. You said google can prove things. You said anything that shows up on google is true. If I google "Flying Spaghetti Monster" and I get results, you'd believe it was real. You'd also believe "God doesn't exist" if it turned up google results.

I wouldn't be that gullible though. And clearly all theists use the same kind of logic as you do.

See how I assume everything about your beliefs based off one sentence? Do you like words being shove in your mouth and then attacked? Does my doing so debunk your belief system?



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


I disagree here. I have an uncle that was a Deacon in his church, a Baptist church in Kentucky for many years. Sometimes he even preached. His brother, my other uncle, challenged him to "read the Bible all the way through." So he did it, mostly to prove his brother wrong. Reading it made him begin a research project on the internet, and within a two month period, my uncle became an Atheist. He basically, according to those who were there, went off on the preacher, for lying to everyone for so long. He has been emailing me, asking for links and info on the Ancient Religions, and the origins of common terms used my the Church, such as Satan, and Demon, for instance.



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