Birthers need to stop whining and start working

Originally posted by neo96
the word stop by itself means to silence a certain school of thought

Originally posted by jidnum
People need to stop referring to others as birthers.

Originally posted by neo96
people need to stop whining about birthers
...
do you believe in freedom of speech?

do you believe in freedom of expression?

Do YOU? Or is it just that other people need to shut up, quit calling you birthers, quit debunking the rumors and lies, and just let you have your birther parties unimpeded?

This is just very interesting.

Originally posted by thorazineshuffle
I will refer to people as yourself " non thought sheeple"

The term birther is descriptive, not judgmental. If you want to to call people "non-thought sheeple", don't be surprised if they come back with "brain-dead birthers". If a person believes that Obama was not born in the US, they are a birther. What name would you suggest?

The OP has a point. People who are claiming that Obama wasn't born here have ZERO evidence. The overwhelming evidence points to the fact that he was indeed born in Hawaii. It's time for some real evidence on the part of the "People who believe Obama wasn't born in the US" (Whew! That's a long name. I can't see myself typing that out much. It's so much easier to say birther. And I don't mean it as an insult.)

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8d85a11258e0.jpg[/atsimg]

Birtherism: A Conspiracy Theory Primer

It's a pretty good article. I just wish the birthers REALLY wanted the facts. If they REALLY want the facts, they are out there. The truth is out there! But birthers don't want the truth, they want to push an agenda. When they examine Obama's BC with a fine tooth comb, only to pronounce it a FAKE, but then slurp up any piece of crap "Kenyan BC" as PROOF without even a moment's thought toward its authenticity, then I know they're not looking for the truth, they're looking for any scrap of BS evidence to support their agenda.

BIrthers:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3e4dcc71b3e8.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

The overwhelming evidence points to the fact that he was indeed born in Hawaii.

Could you please list maybe the 5 most overwhelming pieces of evidence?
Or less if that's all you have..
Just bullet form please..

reply to post by backinblack


1. Obama's released Birth Certificate (information of which comes directly from the long form) Source

2. Statements from Hawaii DOH Official. Source 1 Source 2

3. Birth Announcements in Hawaii papers. Source

4. Congress agreed unanimously that Obama was born in Hawaii. Source

5. President's grandmother said he was born in the USA. Source1 Unedited Audio

Translator: No, no — what? . . . No! Obama was not born in Mombasa. He was born in America.

McRae: Wh-whereabouts, whereabouts was he born? I, I thought he was born in Kenya.

Translator: No he was born in America, not in Mombasa.

McRae: OK. Do you know whereabouts he was born?

Translator: Huh?

McRae: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was gonna go by and see where he was born. . . .

Translator: Sir, she says he was born in Hawaii.

6. Not one piece of evidence stating otherwise has stood the test of time and scrutiny. They have all been successfully debunked.

Hope that helps.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Thanks mate..

1. Obama's released Birth Certificate (information of which comes directly from the long form) Source

There is no confirmation the long form exists..DOH keep changing their story and you source only discusses BC's in general.

2. Statements from Hawaii DOH Official. Source 1 Source 2

Statements have been conflicting to say the least..

3. Birth Announcements in Hawaii papers. Source

Could have been phoned in from anywhere or placed by a relative.

4. Congress agreed unanimously that Obama was born in Hawaii. Source

Without seeing physical proof..But then they voted for bailouts and wars also..

5. President's grandmother said he was born in the USA. Source1 Unedited Audio

I've heard conflicting stories on that one..
But then she wasn't in Hawaii at the time so how would she really know?

6. Not one piece of evidence stating otherwise has stood the test of time and scrutiny. They have all been successfully debunked.

Or not given their day in court by Judges appointed by guess who? The Government.

Really doesn't seem like there's rock solid proof on either side..
But then Obama could change that in a minute if he wanted to..

reply to post by backinblack


I'm not going to waste my time showing you proof that every statement you made is false. I have done that here a hundred times in the past 4 years and I'm done. You don't want the truth. If you had, you would have taken longer than 15 minutes to CHECK my sources and then reply to them. But you carry the standard BS birther comebacks like a weapon in your arsenal to flip out every time someone shows you solid proof. Problem is your weapon is faulty. Full of holes and highly ineffective. Nothing to be proud of.

Truth is, if you wanted the truth, YOU would search for it, not ask other ATS members to prove you wrong. You provided NOT ONE source for your statements. NOT ONE!! Your weapon sucks. You lose.

1. There IS confirmation that the long form exists.
2. The statements from the DOH have not been conflicting. Different, but not conflicting.
3. The birth announcements came from the hospital.
4. YOU don't know that Congress didn't see proof!
5. LISTEN TO THE AUDIO! The tape was edited. It's been proven.

How can you enter into a debate if you don't even take the time to examine the proof on the other side? You get no respect from me for just repeating these comebacks and lies that you've heard without even checking out what YOU asked for! Don't waste my freaking time!

Here is how Obama solves the birther and Trump problem all in one shot:

Obama goes back on "The View"....does another getting jiggy busta-move to whoop up the pre-selected crowd on the way to his seat (so he´s guarenteed total MSM coverage), jawbones with the ladies about the economy, his dog, Michelle´s toast making abilities....and then when the Trump situation comes up, he whips out his old shoebox he´s been saving ever since he found it on top of a garbage pile outside of Jakarta, and in one smooth, rabbit-out-of-hat like move, he pulls out a slightly worn and folded piece of paper...his birth certificate...opens it up, and let´s it be passed around the table. As Goldberg and Baynor are wraithing under the effects of having a political orgasm, Obama then fist bumps the rest of the girls at the table, gets up, does another Will Smith, and leaves the crowd screaming like banshees.

reply to post by fockewulf190


Or the birthers and Trump can just look at it now and join reality.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Don't waste my freaking time!

Ditto..
Why do I waste my time debating with the Obama faithful?
They all spin the same lies while Obama still refuses to show a piece of paper...

A single piece of paper that shows no new information or secrets IF he has been telling the truth...
Simple fact no one needs to check...

reply to post by fockewulf190


That's a nice scenario, and I would love to see it. But it wouldn't appease the birther crowd NOR would it quash Trump's trumped up charges.

The next day, the birthers would start screaming about how it was all a set up and how of COURSE the liberal left lamestream media (The View ladies) LOVE Obama and were in on the ruse from the start! And Whoopi's black, what do you EXPECT her to say?

Trump would come out and thank Obama for showing his birth certificate and suggest that he please send the certificate to Trump so he can have his well-paid "document specialists" verify its authenticity, so we can finally put this issue to rest. If Obama refuses, it's called a fake. If he submits, Trump's "document specialists" would call it a fake. Now WHY would Obama do something so stupid?

It would NOT be over! People are fooling themselves by making that claim. Maybe one or 2% of birthers would drop it, but they'd still hate Obama and not vote for him. Obama has NOTHING to gain. And he knows that publishing his certificate on the Internet in 2008 was a big mistake, because it gave credence to the birther movement. (He was advised to do so by a Republican colleague.)

Making a spectacle of himself and bowing to the demands of an extremist group who have nothing to base their suspicions on makes him look like a weakling and a wimp. And people think he should do this so 98% of the birthers can scream even louder and make up more lies? I ask again... WHY would Obama do something so stupid?

Obama is only going to show his long form certificate if HE thinks it will be to HIS advantage, never to appease his conspiracy theorist critics.

The longer this issue drags on the more I appreciate the fact that the President chose not to indulge the vitriolic fringe of the right wing.

It has proven to be an incredibly effective litmus test to differentiate between genuine conservatives and the batpoop crazy fringe right, between honest and dishonest detractors, between people concerned about real issues and people that are unable to legitimately engage in honest debate about those real issues.

Every time another angle of failed birther nonsense crumbles under the slightest scrutiny what remains is xenophobic porn for those that can't accept a non-white POTUS. That is just the hard truth of it.

Isn't it about time someone mocks up another BC from Kenya or Indonesia for birthers to get glassy eyed about? Of course they will immediately know on some level it's not real, but it affords them a brief opportunity to release all that pent up disgust they have for "that" man being President.

While no fan of Obama, it's funny how more wasn't made about McCain...

McCain was born in Panama, but to US Citizens (making him by definition of the Constitution, a "Natural-born" citizen).

Obama was born in Hawaii (a US state), to a US Citizen and a Kenyan, but being born on US soil makes him a "Natural-born" citizen as well.

Both were qualified (by the Constitutional requirements) to be President.

If his claim of Hawaii was somehow false, I seriously doubt it would have gone on this long folks. I like the Donald, but he's been fed some bad info in this one. Obama's childhood history reinforces the born in Hawaii claim, for those caring to look. I'd love to see him tossed out of the Oval Office (I never voted for him to go in anyhow), but this dog doesn't hunt....

Originally posted by maybereal11
The longer this issue drags on the more I appreciate the fact that the President chose not to indulge the vitriolic fringe of the right wing.

I feel the same way. At first, I wondered why he wasn't trying to disprove this rumor, but then I realized what I said in my last post. That attempts to appease the fringe (and it doesn't matter whether it's right or left fringe) would not work, but instead, give credence to their unreasonable claims.

Every time another angle of failed birther nonsense crumbles under the slightest scrutiny what remains is xenophobic porn for those that can't accept a non-white POTUS. That is just the hard truth of it.

Again, I agree. With a few qualifications. Even birthers cannot all be grouped into a single mind. I do believe that the originators and purveyors of these rumors about Obama definitely have used his race, name and different-ness to subconsciously scare people. Having dated an African man, I know what many Americans think when they see a black person holding hands with a white person. You'd be surprised how brave people are with racism when their friends aren't around to hear them.

People like to say that we're over racism, but I know it's not true. We still live in a bigoted society. Whether it's race, gender or sexual orientation doesn't matter. It's still there. An ingrained dislike of those that are different.

I think that there is a greater-then-zero percentage of people whose doubts about Obama's birth have nothing to do with his race or the fact that his father was African. I don't believe that all birthers have racist motivations. But, sadly, I think many of them do. Even if they don't know it.. And I think most of them don't know it.

The 'machine' put in place to bring Obama down is sneaky and very good at what it does. It appeals to that 'ingrained dislike' of those that are different than us with subtle hints and suspicions that activate our fears and emotions. It's a great way to control people's thoughts.

So, yeah, I guess what I'm saying is that I think most birthers dislike Obama because on some level, their suspicions are being triggered to be wary of this guy's different-ness and they're not fighting that 'programming' with logic. Yeah. That's what I'm saying.

"The fact that my 15 minutes of fame has extended a little longer than 15 minutes is somewhat surprising to me and completely baffling to my wife."
Barack Obama

Originally posted by Gazrok
I'd love to see him tossed out of the Oval Office (I never voted for him to go in anyhow), but this dog doesn't hunt....

Starred. If you think he sucks as a POTUS, say it loud and proud...but lets be honest when we call out our politicians, otherwise the people's voice loses credibility. I like some of what modern day conservatives are bringing to the table and dislike other parts, but absent this kind of nonsense think it is all worth debating.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

You have to prove your case under the constitution and law.

and that is the point on both sides....

Barry Sotoro? Barack Hussein Obama II?

What [licensed investigator from Ohio named Susan Daniels] and fellow investigator Neil Sankey unearthed was a nugget that could have ended the career of a George Bush or a Sarah Palin: Barack Obama had been using a Social Security number issued in Connecticut between 1977 and 1979, a state in which he never lived or even visited at that time in his life... ..."All I can say," says Daniels of 042-68-4425, "is that it's phony and [Obama] has been using it, with it first appearing on his Selective Service document in 1980." Daniels sent me a copy of the hand-written application of the individual who held the number immediately before Obama's, 042-68-4424. The applicant, Thomas Wood, died at age 19, which is why his information is available. Wood's Social Security number was issued sometime between March and May of 1977. Obama would turn 16 in August of that year. Wood lived on Glenview Drive in Newington, Conn., the state from which all "042s" applied. Obama lived in Hawaii...

Regardless...

The Damage is Done..

United States Sovereignty is Doomed..

Never offend 'Brother's' friend.

I have to abandon my own baby soon to survive. And I tell you now no American socialist, nor psychopath, will ever tell me how to be in my own country. One of my best friends was a Vietnam Vet SAS and they were there before you losers even turned up before I was born.

Always last and claim victory, what a sad country to serve.

My best friend also told me that you lot shot body bags attached to boats to keep the sharks off in the rivers of Vietnam.

My best friend was many years older than me, but he was almost the best human I knew. And sooner or later your government has to pay for its' evils. My wife is a mind controlled slave, it doesn't matter. I go home and defend my country. Under vestiges of God way more powerful than thee will ever know.

I stand fast under my country under no symbol or evil, I will defend my country. No government of evil, I will defend my brothers until death.


.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

It should work the other way.. It is he who should prove that he was born in USA which he hasn't done so far.

I'm just curious where we are supposed to get proof he isn't born in the US. I saw in this thread we don't provide fact or sources if we don't believe he's born here but really where am i supposed to get it and how. If i went to Hawaii and asked the alleged hospital show it to me they are either gonna laugh or flip me off and tell me to go away no real way to get a hold of it for an average person. Or am I supposed to fly to Kenya and go to random hospitals and trust not only they keep any records safely and to hope i can find my way around with using just english. The believers get mad when we demand the long form, but then they are pretty much demanding the same of us really. Only real difference is we are asking the govt and people with resources and clearance to get them rather than some random person on a conspiracy forum.

If I may ask one more question, why do believers fight so hard because its not about us birthers as we are called spreading "lies". Ive seen plenty of threads where its one thread (unless someone writes up the post at the same time without seeing someone else did it already) where it seems an outrageous story both sides speak their peace in one thread and leave it at that. Is it you have some kind of personal investment in him? Its fine if you do Im just curious seems like some kind of alterior motive than saying we are crazy or lying.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by fockewulf190

 

That's a nice scenario, and I would love to see it. But it wouldn't appease the birther crowd NOR would it quash Trump's trumped up charges.

The next day, the birthers would start screaming about how it was all a set up and how of COURSE the liberal left lamestream media (The View ladies) LOVE Obama and were in on the ruse from the start! And Whoopi's black, what do you EXPECT her to say?

Trump would come out and thank Obama for showing his birth certificate and suggest that he please send the certificate to Trump so he can have his well-paid "document specialists" verify its authenticity, so we can finally put this issue to rest. If Obama refuses, it's called a fake. If he submits, Trump's "document specialists" would call it a fake. Now WHY would Obama do something so stupid?

It would NOT be over! People are fooling themselves by making that claim. Maybe one or 2% of birthers would drop it, but they'd still hate Obama and not vote for him. Obama has NOTHING to gain. And he knows that publishing his certificate on the Internet in 2008 was a big mistake, because it gave credence to the birther movement. (He was advised to do so by a Republican colleague.)

Making a spectacle of himself and bowing to the demands of an extremist group who have nothing to base their suspicions on makes him look like a weakling and a wimp. And people think he should do this so 98% of the birthers can scream even louder and make up more lies? I ask again... WHY would Obama do something so stupid?

Obama is only going to show his long form certificate if HE thinks it will be to HIS advantage, never to appease his conspiracy theorist critics.

Ahh, but you are forgetting that the queen of female journalism, Barbara WaWa and counterstrike Frau Hasselbeck, would also get to see this Majestic 12 document. It would be quite difficult to start calling these two liars or what not if they confirm what they saw. Sure, your still going to have the frothy fringe foaming at the mouth no matter what Obama does. But if Obama starts getting swift-boated over this issue and his polling numbers start tanking badly, he may be forced to produce the goods. You know as well as I that eventually during the campaign Obama is going to come on the View again. Perhaps the scenario I wrote could really end up being possible....minus the shoebox of course.