The plant that softens stone.

Originally posted by Baddogma
reply to post by skjalddis

 

I recently read a book "The Cosmic Serpent" written in 1998 by Jeremy Narby that posited that the shamans got their knowledge exactly how they say they do, from taking ayahuasca, the mixture rich in '___', and asking the plant spirits.

The author goes on to try to explain this process by postulating that the faint light given off from DNA molecules is a form of communication, going on to posit intelligence in the molecule and evolution itself.

Thankyou for that, it sounds like a book I would very much like to read. I think that there is much to this claim that shamans got their knowledge from plant spirits. I can see how simple observation of the behaviour of birds might have led to the development of the technology we are discussing in this thread, but as with the example that you have given - some plants require such elaborate processing before they can be used / eaten that there is just no conceivable way in which someone could have just stumbled upon the knowledge by accident.

thankyou
J

Originally posted by spacebot
When I read up the first story from OP I suspected that whatever procedure they used with this plant they were'nt supposed to be able to solidify back the limestone liquid. Then I continued reading up the thread until the report about the Catholic priest that confirmed my suspicion. Even if they did know how they would solidify large quantities of liquid limestone that does not mean we have discovered how they were able to build megalithic structures, since a block of liquid limestone if such a thing can exist would still weight the same as the solid one. We have yet to find how they were able to lift all that weight up, balance it and put it to place, along with the ways they used to design whatever they built. If we assume that in Egypt they used liquefied limestone then this would pose a greater mystery not just about on how they built the molds but why! Since it might be an enormous task to build a pyramid but it's an even greater one to build a mold for each stone that this pyramid is made off!

No, you wouldn't need a mould for each stone. You could use the stones already in place as part of the mould for the next one and form it right in place where you want it. You would haul a few stones into place in the foundation layer to get you started, then you could position flat pieces of something, probably wooden boards, around to form the other sides and that would be your mould. It would probably be easier to build the wall up unevenly rather than one flat layer on top of another, that way you would be able to use more of the existing stone surfaces to mould your next stone - but that is what we see with many of these walls anyway, they are not regular layers. At least, it seems to make the most sense to me to do it that way.

peace
J

reply to post by skjalddis


Sounds quite similar to using sandpaper on wood!

This leaf though, never heard of it but wouldn't suprise me if it does/did exist when you think about how the Ancients carved and moved stone about.... i wonder if after melting/softening the stone you can harden it again and if you can could the Eygptians have used it on the Pyramid building?

Ok, just read the post above mine and looks like someone already mentioned it.

great thread here guys.
there was a question earlier ,if the plant can dissolve the rock then how come the birds beak dosent dissolve.? good question,maybe the chemical reaction is different to the material of the beak than that of the rock,or the bird creats a juice my rubbing the plant against the rock. that has to be left on the rock for a few minutes,and off he flys to clean his beak before it take seffect on him>????

but heres what Im thinking,how the hell did those birds find out a particular plant dissolves rock?theres so many variables there

Originally posted by Cole DeSteele
Seems to me not only probable but likely that the secretion of the plant would react differently with the minerals in rock than with proteins in the bird's beak. Apparently conflicting info regarding the ph of this mysterious secretion - it was stated as alkali earlier in the thread - if this is so, then the birds' saliva (being acetic) would actually help neutralize the ingredient, making it less effective in rock melting if mixed. If it is acid, as stated later, then I doubt if the saliva would increase it's potency in any measurable way.

Yes, there was one article posted that stated that the substance in question was an alkali but I think it's pretty certain now that it is an acid. It looks like the technology was widely known in the ancient world on both sides of the Atlantic, and it seems likely that various plants were employed in different times and places with one or more of acetic, oxalic and / or citric acid being the active ingredient in the process.

peace
J

Originally posted by DONTBEIGNORANT
reply to post by skjalddis

 

This was solved decades ago....

caniyoumyime.com...

READ UP

Another good reason to remove "Ancient Aliens" from my viewing list. They claim ancient alien tech was used for those stones. LOL

Originally posted by dizTheWiz
www.geopolymer.org...

think i may have found something...sorry if link was already posted

edit on 22-4-2011 by dizTheWiz because: (no reason given)

check it out may be what every one is loooking for

edit on 22-4-2011 by dizTheWiz because: (no reason given)

Well found, that looks like it's exactly what we're looking for. Haven't read it yet, will have a good read of it later.

Thankyou

peace
J

Originally posted by MrCrindleton
Hello I am a gardener and CAN COFNRIM I HAVE FOUND THIS PLANT WHICH TURNS STONE SOFT I USE IT REGULARLY

Hello MrCrindleton
Please could you possibly post up some info on what plant you have used and the method that you employ.

thanks
J

From what has been found so far, it looks like the key ingredient is oxalic acid bearing plants. Well, both Dock and Rhubarb contain oxalic acid and I have both out back, so I may be attempting a little amateurish experimentation over the Easter break. I will keep you all posted on my results.

thankyou to everyone for your posts & contributions



peace
J

I watched a show on this years ago, and have searched and searched for the episode.
The show had such an impact on me, every time I see a thread on the marvelous rock wonders of the world, I think of that show.
Thanks for posting this, I was starting to think I had dreamt of the show or something.

SnF.

Originally posted by reticledc
If it softens rock, then why not the bird's beaks?
Is it that specific that it will only soften rock?
Hmm..

As with everything in nature..creatures adapt. Their beaks probably have certain oils that do not allow for the plant to effect it.

I wish this were true but this is just a story.

reply to post by gangstarr


Confused what is a story? Do you think it is all make believe?

It is a fact for centuries humans have been able to make sulphuric acid also know as vitriol and if you add salt you make hydrochloric acid which dissolves rocks. Not a massive leap to go from 1 to the other is it. Simple accident, see an effect then repeat. (Penicillin anyone)
As for the birds doing it.
South America is full of plants that are hyperaccumulation i.e Hyperaccumulator plants accumulate inordinate amounts of one or more Trace Elements (TE)s in their above ground biomass. Hyperaccmulators can have TE concentrations in their dry biomass that are 100 times higher than non-hyperaccumulators growing in the same soil. Using the right plant with the right rock and then add a little salt makes the rock porous and then bird can then peck away the honey comb effect.

nice initiative on this posting, and more when giving a sharp and LOGICAL explanation as the extract from plants. Amazing, hope the alien fanatics won't stay awake all the night, by being disappointed on this one...

Hi, I'm new to the site. But yes, I have heard of such that same plant before. I have heard a recording of an archaeologist named Jonathan Gray talking about it. If you go to Youtube and type in "Jonathan Gray Dead Men's Secrets" a series of audio interviews with Jonathan will come up. He talks about those plants in one of the parts (wish I could remember exactly which one, though).

reply to post by skjalddis


I'll confirm, it's a book that everyone should read. Fascinating, and paradigm-shifting stuff. (J Narby, 'The Cosmic Serpent'). It is now among the ten or so books that stay by my bedside at all times. Simply because, even if I don't read it for a while, I like to be reminded of the amazing material that it contains, and to remember how one book can change so much of a person's perceptions (it knocked me backwards when I first read it...)

Buy it - you won't regret it. To avoid being flamed for promoting the author, I'll advocate borrowing/ temporarily stealing a copy from any friend or associate who owns a copy.


Here's an easily accesible MP3 of a recent interview with the author (I haven't heard this yet, but figured what the hey-ho, it's probably worth sharing anyway)

reply to post by gangstarr


Read the thread before making nonsensical and unintelligent remarks.

For instance, work through the report HERE (which was posted on about page two of this thread). Once you've read it, and understood it, come back and tell me that all those scientists were just spinning tales by the campfire while they sang kum-by-yah and ate marshmallows off of toasting sticks. Come on, seriously?

Or are you just a pointless troll-bot?

My two cents on the subject would be that the plant most likely would contain an acid base.
What with the incas using limestone in some of there constuction and there being a good chance the cliff face were the birds nested having a limestone layer.
We all know what the reaction would be if you poored acid onto a limestone block, or if i bird was to slowly rub a leaf which contains a mild acid onto limestone..

And it has the added benefit of not really being that harmful to the birdie's beak

Although this still leaves us with the problem of the dissolved spur, which i would guess (i have no idea how these spurs are attached to the boots) if the spurs are attached with some kind of resin or glue, the acid may desolve them..

Originally posted by bluwindRD
My two cents on the subject would be that the plant most likely would contain an acid base.
What with the incas using limestone in some of there constuction and there being a good chance the cliff face were the birds nested having a limestone layer.
We all know what the reaction would be if you poored acid onto a limestone block, or if i bird was to slowly rub a leaf which contains a mild acid onto limestone..

And it has the added benefit of not really being that harmful to the birdie's beak

Although this still leaves us with the problem of the dissolved spur, which i would guess (i have no idea how these spurs are attached to the boots) if the spurs are attached with some kind of resin or glue, the acid may desolve them..

Re the acid - limestone - that sort of thing seems to be what the findings are pointing to so far, pretty much.

The thing with the spurs - spurs are usually attached to boots with metal fittings / leather straps & buckles or something along those lines as far as I know. Most likely, they would have been iron / steel and the description suggests that they had just corroded away and just a small spike was left. Acid will corrode metal, but it seems that the acid must have been quite strong to do this so quickly. I expect as the man was tramping through the plants, the spurs at the back of his boots must have been tearing at the leaves and this must have released the juices of the plant which then corroded the metal.

peace
J

Well when talking about the spurs its worth bearing in mind that many spurs were made of silver, which is a lot softer than metal and reacts easier with acid.. perticually nitric acid if memory serves me correctly.