Core of Stricken Reactor Probably Leaked, U.S. Says

www.nytimes.com...

WASHINGTON — The United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission said Wednesday that some of the core of a stricken Japanese reactor had probably leaked from its steel pressure vessel into the bottom of the containment structure, implying that the damage was even worse than previously thought.

... implying that the damage was even worse than previously thought.

Is that sensationalist? Hysteria-inciting? May we discuss it without the hyperbole of the apologists?

The statement came as the Tokyo Electric Power Company, the operator of the Fukushima Daiichi plant, started to inject nitrogen into the reactor containment vessel of unit No. 1 to prevent a possible explosion.

...to prevent a possible explosion.

Is that sensationalist? Hysteria-inciting? May we discuss this without the hyperbole of the apologists?

The statement [by Tokyo Electric] said that the commission “does not believe that the reactor vessel has given way, and we do believe practically all of the core remains in the vessel.”

...does not believe that the reactor vessel has given way...

...we do believe practically all of the core remains in the vessel.

...Representative Edward J. Markey, Democrat of Massachusetts, told a House hearing on Wednesday morning that the commission had told him that the core had melted through the vessel.

Are we prepared to admit that we have been lied to by PR professionals?

I will leave the rest to you.... I know so many are fighting desperately to marginalize the voices of those who refuse to accept that "there is no real cause for concern"... but at some point those facts we have been denied could kill and injure many MANY people.

I can accept that when people in control loose control they lie to cover up their inadequacies.

I can understand people denying something exists when they cant accept it.

I cannot understand people defending something that cannot be turned off, will pollute for generations over a massive area and cost billions worldwide by saying , cheap, clean and safe.

In my short stay on this planet I have witnessed what the Nuclear industry has said cannot happen, twice. Chernobyl and now Fukushima and narrowly missed a third due to dumb luck, 3 mile island.

Someone said we all know when Chernobyl and'Fukushima began no one knows when they will end. I would add we are all paying now for these events and there is no end in sight to the bill but no one will ever be told the true costs unless we demand it.

reply to post by Maxmars


Are you really going to be surprised if someone ever came out and said, "we lied to everyone about....."?? Almost everything we hear is a lie and if not a lie at least a hidden truth or not the whole truth involved.

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


I accept that what our industrialist/commerce/trade/marketeers consider "good business" includes making people "feel" a particular way about things; both to benefit their business and to protect it. It's called Public Relations.

So yes, it would surprise me if THEY admitted the nature of the 'risks' they take for profit; and the reasoning by which they accepted that risk to the community while not facing it themselves.

But those entrusted with public welfare have no legitimate reason to protect businesses over citizens who depend on them for the truth and protection of their welfare.... so it never fails to disturb me when THEY lie (or to be kind, when THEY accept and propagate the private entity's PR) - because they were taken at face value and placed in positions of responsibility based upon their implicit and mostly explicit commitment not to serve someone other than the citizens.

What doesn't surprise me is that they never seem to face consequences for that behavior - because we know that the illusion of a separation between business and government is increasingly real on a global scale, and useful not to the people, but the business enterprises that offer the greatest rewards to political celebrities and their associates and posterity.

reply to post by Maxmars


The mainstream media is all but silent on this.

I think a heavy dose of sarcasm is in order...

There are plenty who are saying radiation is good for you and probably are planning on going to the northeast of Japan instead of the Dead Sea to bathe in the healing waters.

Learn more: www.naturalnews.com...

Nuclear weather worsens
Wednesday, April 20, 2011 by: Mark Sircus., AC, OMD

In the old days you would hear shouted from the mastheads, "Prepare to repel boarders," as the enemy would gather to try to board your ship. Today someone (that someone being me) is finally shouting, PREPARE TO REPEL NUCLOID PARTICLES. PREPARE DEFENSES IN DEPTH. PREPARE EARLY.

It has only been five weeks since we hit the nuclear iceberg and over the next few years, or perhaps even a shorter period, millions will go down just from this particular mishap. I am afraid that we are only just beginning our lessons in worst-case scenarios playing out in our lives.
www.naturalnews.com...

The complete article is at: www.bestmetalresearch.com...
It's up for you to decide if it's hyperbole or factual. I can no longer tell myself.

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by Maxmars

 

Are you really going to be surprised if someone ever came out and said, "we lied to everyone about....."?? Almost everything we hear is a lie and if not a lie at least a hidden truth or not the whole truth involved.

Your correct. Everything they they say is a lie or skewed truth and all the time we are prepared to accept the lies even reward them for lies they will keep telling them.

The state of the world is as much our fault as it is those greedy people we allow to be in power. We allow them their excesses

"A training manual developed by the companies that operate this type of reactor and dated 2009 refers to the possibility of “creep rupture,” in which molten core material begins seeping through a hole in the vessel and creates a bigger hole as it works; the document says the molten core material can “ablate” a bigger hole. It can then burn through the steel at the bottom of the drywell and interact with the concrete, producing carbon monoxide and hydrogen, which could react explosively.".....www.nytimes.com... (same article being discussed)

Hmmm........this looks like the continuation of leaking a little news at a time to keep from panicking the masses. They like to state things now that happened long ago, or stating things in theory, (which turns out to be what has already happened).

Coincidental this came out at the same time the government is suddenly concerned about closing off the evac zones for REAL ? Coincidental this is released the same time U.S. robots were sent in to document what's going on? They're going to tell me the technological, robotical intelligence of the Japanese didn't have robots of their own in there before the U.S. sent two of our own? I believe they've seen exactly what's happened, and are dosing out the bad news a little at a time.

reply to post by RoyalBlue


I find your analysis most impressive. The analogy is very well crafted.

I find myself often confused though, on a point which I have simply accepted as the only possible answer to a question; but that answer doesn't sit well with me.

The question is basically "Why lie?"

Why adopt such a posture towards this event, which is so strikingly important to the entire population of Japan, let alone those poor people of the province?

I find myself answering "Because of the money."

But it seems so tragically simple that should this answer be true, we must question the sense of morality (and even humanity) of an entire corporate culture (and by extension the corporate cultures of the cartel, and any such institutions.)

We have on one hand the issue of perceived fault; which carries financial liabilities; but no criminal liabilities. On the other we have the evident unstoppable nature of the crisis, which could still culminate in tragedy that exceeds even the scale of the earthquake that started this chain of events.

The architects of the response the corporate entity have chosen to run from the former, while continuing to risk the escalation of the latter. It seems illogical to me that any institution should value money over human life. Money is a construct, life is reality. The people who will suffer most are the very people from whom much of their wealth derives.

hope you will entertain this question with a single proviso.

There is only one answer I cannot accept: "Public fear."

The media and the government often rely on this manufactured reaction to explain away some of the things it does (actually most any government.) In essence telling anyone who listens, that "Unlike you, who can understand that "these things happen," everyone will panic and bad things will happen."

I refuse to accept that the Japanese (or most any) people will all "flip out" and become irrational overnight, especially to their detriment. Such a reason for lying is not acceptable by any logic. The people must know what they are facing, and if the government and industry together conspire to hide the facts, they are part of the problem as it is they who fear, not the people.

Sorry about my verbosity... in essence anyone is welcome to answer..., is there another reason why the company should low-ball and prevaricate on this crisis (and the government acquiesce to the lie), outside of concerns about money?

Thanks for reading.

The pecking order of reality:

Business - first
Reputation - second
Continuance of position held - third (which is a result of the success of the first and second)
Consumers - last

If it takes rioting in the streets, and any other type of violence to prod our do-nothing governments to stop this insanity, then it is past time to begin. Japan has allowed Tokyo Electric to bombard my home and property, endangering the lives of my family and animals. It has stolen my piece of mind about the safety of my world.

Radiation cannot be seen, felt, tasted, but it can sure make you die in a horrible way. I have lost faith with my government and those who swore an oath to protect the welfare of it's citizens. If they are not for US then they sure as hell are against US. "Against all enemies, foreign and domestic." I honestly believe our Military is fighting the wrong people, why are they in Iraq and Afghanistan? Why are they attacking Libya?

Originally posted by CranialSponge
The pecking order of reality:

Business - first
Reputation - second
Continuance of position held - third (which is a result of the success of the first and second)
Consumers - last

So it boils down to money then.

I find this to be somewhat of a dissatisfying answer... as I said, we may cynically attribute those traits to these corporate constructs, but it seems impossible to accept that any normal human being could acquiesce to the conduct such a "philosophy" of business requires.

In order to live a life in which you prey on society, wouldn't you have to be criminally-inclined? I suspect corporate executives would beg to differ. They successfully detached themselves to any consequences of the corporation's actions. Isn't that contradictory to being a productive "member" of society? How do you rationalize accepting that as a reasonable 'common conduct' of hundreds of thousands of executives, or would it be just the mere hundreds, within the energy cartel?

It would mean that these people, from whom virtually all leadership comes (even to the point of landing in high ranking government positions,) are singularly unfit to serve. Yet, by some magic, we are blind to this? In what way do we collectively fail to see the danger this represents to the entire community, or any community which is overshadowed by corporate influence?

Originally posted by debris765nju
If it takes rioting in the streets, and any other type of violence to prod our do-nothing governments to stop this insanity, then it is past time to begin. Japan has allowed Tokyo Electric to bombard my home and property, endangering the lives of my family and animals. It has stolen my piece of mind about the safety of my world.

Radiation cannot be seen, felt, tasted, but it can sure make you die in a horrible way. I have lost faith with my government and those who swore an oath to protect the welfare of it's citizens. If they are not for US then they sure as hell are against US. "Against all enemies, foreign and domestic." I honestly believe our Military is fighting the wrong people, why are they in Iraq and Afghanistan? Why are they attacking Libya? Bomb Japan, end the radioactive river they are sending our way.

I would ask you to check your passion, but I think you are truly hurt by this horrible event. Please don't blame Japan, or her people. This is not the consequence of malice. But it is essential that we determine more than the physical cause of this, because something distinctly non-physical has made the problem worse. That something is alien to me, it appears to be called "good business", but there seems little good about it, if we judge it by it's impact on our lives.

You may as well say bomb all the businessmen of the world. But we need them as a part of our society.

What should we say to all those people who have suffered as a consequence of the actions of American corporate enterprise? Bomb us? That's no answer.

The problem is bigger than that; it's deeper and frankly if we don't think our way out of this situation, it will simply continue to repeat, over and over.... I don't want that for my kids. Nor do I want them to think bombing people is any kind of acceptable solution.

reply to post by Maxmars


I think it just came out wrong, i was talking about the reactor, not the people. They are being victimized more than anyone. Many evacuees are still living in gymnasiums with little food and even less governmental concern. I lived in Japan two and a half years. These conditions should never be allowed to happen..

The bombing i was referring to is atomic munitions of specific measure that would totally consume all the fuel rods and other nuclear materials. This would destroy this material with an atomic blast small enough not to trigger a nuclear reaction. I believe our military has already planned the specifics for this surgical strike.

Originally posted by Maxmars

Originally posted by CranialSponge
The pecking order of reality:

Business - first
Reputation - second
Continuance of position held - third (which is a result of the success of the first and second)
Consumers - last

So it boils down to money then.

I find this to be somewhat of a dissatisfying answer... as I said, we may cynically attribute those traits to these corporate constructs, but it seems impossible to accept that any normal human being could acquiesce to the conduct such a "philosophy" of business requires.

In order to live a life in which you prey on society, wouldn't you have to be criminally-inclined? I suspect corporate executives would beg to differ. They successfully detached themselves to any consequences of the corporation's actions. Isn't that contradictory to being a productive "member" of society? How do you rationalize accepting that as a reasonable 'common conduct' of hundreds of thousands of executives, or would it be just the mere hundreds, within the energy cartel?

It would mean that these people, from whom virtually all leadership comes (even to the point of landing in high ranking government positions,) are singularly unfit to serve. Yet, by some magic, we are blind to this? In what way do we collectively fail to see the danger this represents to the entire community, or any community which is overshadowed by corporate influence?

The point is though that the layout of the pecking order is not seen as a 'prey on society' per se, it's seen as a benefit to society and thus, a good thing in their mind.

And the pecking order I'm talking about falls into the hands of the 'mere hundreds' that hold influence in the overall scheme (be it energy (commodities), government, banking, etc). It's not a conspiracy, it's an economic/capitalist/democratic (label it whatever you want) belief system. ie: Without the benefit of their prowess and expertise, where would all us little people be ?

The entire reason for existing in the first place (corporations and any other business for that matter) is profit above all else.

It's a circular life cycle: consumers buy > business profits > enabling consumers to buy > enabling business to profit > and back around again. Health and welfare does not play into that equation until such a time that it becomes so tremendous it inherently effects the impact to the profitable business equation... But then it becomes an entirely different equation at that point: consumers drop off > increase health and welfare in order to enable > consumers buy > business profits > enabling consumers to buy > enabling business to profit... so you eventually fall right back into the original equation.

It doesn't sound very humane, I know, but it's how the game works.

Now the situation in Fukishima has not yet been determined as to what and how much impact is going to happen to the original business equation and therefore is not of concern up to this point to these people. When it does become blatantly obvious, then the health and welfare will become top priority in order to get the equation back on track.

People aren't blind to this (okay maybe a good percentage are), but in order to continue living a certain standard of lifestyle we've all become accustomed to (running water, tv, electricity on demand, etc) then we have no choice but to play alongside. And quite frankly, the constructs of our current society depend on that very foundation and has spread itself across just about every corner to the point that it's virtually impossible to get away from. Try completely living "off the grid"... it's not possible. Nobody can plant a flag on a small piece of land somewhere and make a life for themselves without having to answer to someone for it or getting kicked off if you don't pay up from the mandatory monetary system.

It is all about the money.

People drop dead everyday in the US due to lack of proper healthcare... and look at the fight across the country caused by the mere suggestion of a universal healthcare system to ensure all bodies receive equal medical treatment. It's a prime example of what I'm talking about.

People dropping dead, and nobody gives a damn.
Business as usual, carry on, nothing to see here.

It's a mad mad mad mad world we live in.

Business first
Reputation second
Continuance of position held third
Consumers (we are not citizens *cough*) last

reply to post by Maxmars

Thank you for your reply. :

As to your question, "Why lie?", I believe there are many human factors involved. Some people in these positions don't like to admit they've caused any harm, or damage. They don't want to look their friends and family in their eyes and admit they were responsible for causing them grave physical and financial harm. They probably also exhibit the "mother hen" position, where they want to protect others by trying to calm them and dispell their fears, kind of like a mother trying to keep her child calm during a scary scenario. There are also those that can't take a hit to their ego. And they fear displaying any weaknesses to their opponents, at any cost. They believe "others" are always out to get them, and so their strategy is to lie to the public and keep them on unequal footing at all times. Kind of like "divide and conquer", as long as they keep different groups believing different things at the same time, there isn't a group big or strong enough to get their foot in the door to cause these people (or companies) any real harm. And then there are those so bent on asserting power, they don't care who they hurt or kill in the process. Their twisted need to lie gives them the false sense of power. (Until they are caught, strung, and gutted, metaphorically speaking).

Now we just have to change the psychological environment and teach people the true power is to work with their societies, not against them.

fixed*

"Admitting that the damage is worse than previously stated."

reply to post by Maxmars

Are we prepared to admit that we have been lied to by PR professionals?

They have to lie..
Japan depends on Nuclear Power heavily, and yet Japan as a whole overall has a deep rooted fear of all things Nuclear from dating back to the 1940's..The Nuclear energy companies have had to do massive amounts of PR work just to get the population to allow it at all...and given the track records of the fatal accidents in Japans nuclear power past, it remains a hot topic. they have staged many protests against it, and have had problems even with the U.S bringing nuke weapons into the country...
So the Nuclear companies like TEPCO have to downplay and sugar coat any and all info released regarding the accident just to try and stay in place....If (when) people ever learn the true status of this accident there will be another major push to remove Nuke plants...if that happens it would cost the country billions.. so what is a few thousand deaths....I am guessing that many of the deaths that do result from this accident will say anything but radiation related

if everyone was told "we effed up big this time, its all over folks", the world economy would collapse, riots would insue, chaos. if they lie, the world keeps spinning a bit longer before people realize its too late, and everyone in the know hides in bunkers.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


But don't we pay our government officials to handle these situations? Are the multimillionaire executives of the companies which operate these facilities because of how 'important' they are.

Why would there be mass panic? Who would instigate such a panic? And over what?

I can't accept that our brethren across the globe are little more than frightened children.... I'm starting to accept that the leadership is more likely to be than the people. If anyone were to panic and become stupidly drunk on fear, it seems that they and their media spokesmen would be least surprisingly those who "go there."

I believe that "mass-panic" is invariably manufactured.